Joy Seppala meeting at Ryton Report (2 Viewers)

[NorthernWisdom]

I agree , IF they do aquire and start to build then fair play, my opinion will change.

Indeed.

Desperate for something concrete? Not surprised really, as it's the easiest way to swing a fair proportion back, if not onside, to at least being more prepared to giving the benefit of the doubt.

 

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[skybluefred]

I suppose seems as you and many others believe this to be truth, there will be a quote or more evidence to point me to believing this information rather than your assumption?

Companies House had Otium listed with £1,000 capital. So three question's,1/ who supplied the £1.5m to purchase CCFC Ltd.2/Where is the money coming from to build this new WHITE ELEPHANT sorry stadium. 3/Because J Seppala is not listed as a Director of Otium,HOW can she have any influence over Otium or CCFC,bearing in mind that SHADOW director's
are NOT ALLOWED.

 

[ccfcway]

Fair enough.

But looks like SISU are saying the right things regarding exploring that option of building a new stadium, if they bid for a certain piece of land then there is something more concrete to go on.

SISU, "operation premiership" SISU ?

SISU "we acknowledge we have made mistake in communications and will learn from them" SISU ?

etc etc

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Operation Premiership was Robinson and Fletcher.

 

[italiahorse]

I agree that playing in Coventry for fans of this club to be able to watch is most important, however for the third time in 5 minutes another posters believes we will be charged a rental fee even if we build a new stadia. So my question is do you have any proof to suggest this will be the case?

Well unless they are paying cash for it and giving it to CCFC then CCFC will have to either pay a rental or a mortgage on it.

 

[skybluetony176]

A new stadium (or ACL) will be owned by the SBS&L group - anything else would be creating the nightmare they have just escaped.

shitsu could make a good start at winning hearts and minds back by making a statement to this effect, yet they haven't. this is what worries me and what makes me believe that 1 shitsu company not linked to the club will be the stadiums owners and the club will be the tenant, i.e. nothing changes or may even get worse.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Operation Premiership was Robinson and Fletcher.

Wasn't that what was said by SISU after they took over? I could be wrong..

 

[NorthernWisdom]

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Footb...rner'+SKY+BLUES:+Paul+Fletcher...-a0157955421

 

[RoboCCFC90]

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Footb...rner'+SKY+BLUES:+Paul+Fletcher...-a0157955421

I stand corrected thanks NW.

 

[Godiva]

Companies House had Otium listed with £1,000 capital. So three question's,1/ who supplied the £1.5m to purchase CCFC Ltd.2/Where is the money coming from to build this new WHITE ELEPHANT sorry stadium. 3/Because J Seppala is not listed as a Director of Otium,HOW can she have any influence over Otium or CCFC,bearing in mind that SHADOW director's
are NOT ALLOWED.

1) We don't know how Otium is capitalized now, we'll know when accounts are filed.
2) Building a new stadium will require new investments and a mortgage. We don't know where the new investments will come from - either existing investors or new.
3) Shadow directors are allowed. They are just as liable as listed directors. JS is acting on behalf of the investors - the true owners.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

1) We don't know how Otium is capitalized now, we'll know when accounts are filed.

It's back to that question though, why no accounts for Otium?

Of all the companies with late accounts, theirs ought to be the easiest and least complicated after all...

And not a 'mess' as never had former directors messing them up.

 

[skybluepete1987]

1) We don't know how Otium is capitalized now, we'll know when accounts are filed.
2) Building a new stadium will require new investments and a mortgage. We don't know where the new investments will come from - either existing investors or new.
3) Shadow directors are allowed. They are just as liable as listed directors.

About those accounts...

 

[Grappa]

How the hell will SISU start to repay the build costs if they don't even charge us rent ,or do you think they will build this stadium and let us play for free.
If you know how they will repay the cost of building it by other means, please can you tell me

IMO the best work the Trust ever did was that Q&A. I'd be really interested to know who came up with the questions because there are some blinders.

"24: Did CCFC inform ACL that it intends to move to a new built ground in South Warwickshire
ACL: Yes, Chris West and Paul Harris were advised post 29 January 2013 meeting during a follow up discussion with Tim Fisher, Mark Labovitch and John Clarke, that the Club wanted a three year run off period. This was totally rejected by the ACL representatives. There were no details provided of the location other than “South Warwickshire”, and that it would potentially take three years.
CCFC: Yes but this is very much a Plan B. With modern building techniques a stadium could be built quicker and cheaper than ever. Majority of funding would be done by developer who would benefit from retail, hotel as well as bank lending and CCFC would simply cover any funding gap. This is a feasible option but not CCFC’s preferred course of action – that is reaching agreement and staying at the Ricoh."

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Same meat different gravy, Fisher's words just repeated by someone different. Too cynical for this, went into administration in Feb, 7 months is sufficient time to deliver a proposed site a plan demonstrable evidence that they will build a stadium.

Wake up and smell the coffee, why all the openess now ? cos they are desperate club is loosing out on revenue and what the fans at Sixfields.

PS rotherham moved a few miles, had the support of the fans and the local council something Joy & co will never have.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

IMO the best work the Trust ever did was that Q&A. I'd be really interested to know who came up with the questions because there are some blinders.

"24: Did CCFC inform ACL that it intends to move to a new built ground in South Warwickshire
ACL: Yes, Chris West and Paul Harris were advised post 29 January 2013 meeting during a follow up discussion with Tim Fisher, Mark Labovitch and John Clarke, that the Club wanted a three year run off period. This was totally rejected by the ACL representatives. There were no details provided of the location other than “South Warwickshire”, and that it would potentially take three years.
CCFC: Yes but this is very much a Plan B. With modern building techniques a stadium could be built quicker and cheaper than ever. Majority of funding would be done by developer who would benefit from retail, hotel as well as bank lending and CCFC would simply cover any funding gap. This is a feasible option but not CCFC’s preferred course of action – that is reaching agreement and staying at the Ricoh."

Interesting the three year deal 'totally rejected' too.

Meaning if (yeah yeah IF! OK!) a new ground was on the horizon, and sale of Ricoh not an option, then they really did have no choice but to move!

 

[Godiva]

shitsu could make a good start at winning hearts and minds back by making a statement to this effect, yet they haven't. this is what worries me and what makes me believe that 1 shitsu company not linked to the club will be the stadiums owners and the club will be the tenant, i.e. nothing changes or may even get worse.

I get it that it's what you fear, but please explain me what the business reason would be in having the two in seperate groups. We all know that sisu as investors will have an exit point in their business plans - how can they sell a stadium without a football club or a football club without a stadium? Only when those two are in the same package - and being viable and profitable going forward - will they be able to sell.

 

[Godiva]

About those accounts...

Soon, honestly!
This time next year ... or the year after.

 

[Sky Blues]

Thanks KH, an interesting read. My initial response turned into a long, slightly ranty piece (not about you KH; primarily about Sisu's PR) but I doubt anyone wants to wade through that, so I'll just post a couple of queries:


Can you say anything about "the club being 15 minutes from ceasing to exist this summer" comment on Cov Mad? (not a direct quote, just working off memory)


I think someone may have already asked this, but did she give any rough indication of what terms they would be looking for if they were to return to Ricoh? Only if Sisu can purchase? Short-term rental?


Did anyone ask why (as of about a month ago) there did not appear to have been any preliminary discussions with neighbouring authorities about submitting plans for a stadium?


Apologies if that repeats anything anyone has already asked while I was drafting my original reply.

 

[skybluetony176]

I get it that it's what you fear, but please explain me what the business reason would be in having the two in seperate groups. We all know that sisu as investors will have an exit point in their business plans - how can they sell a stadium without a football club or a football club without a stadium? Only when those two are in the same package - and being viable and profitable going forward - will they be able to sell.

your assuming that their exit strategy from ccfc includes letting the stadium go with the club. it is possible that their exit strategy could be sell the club and the club alone while owning a big commercial property with a sitting tenant tied to a 150year lease in it with no access to match day revenue on their portfolio. that type of thing is very attractive to potential hedge fund investors.

i'm not saying that will be the case, but where is the evidence to the contrary? it's certainly not shitsu's history of business dealings away from CCFC

EDIT) just to had they will also have a property that the can re-mortgage again and again as its commercial value go's up other years to come. how many people do you know who have re-mortgaged their house time and time again?

 

[Jack Griffin]

Can you say anything about "the club being 15 minutes from ceasing to exist this summer" comment on Cov Mad? (not a direct quote, just working off memory)

Yet more taking it to the wire, that is to be expected, it is SISU's normal modus operandi... I expect similar to happen again. Did not something similar happen when they originally negotiated to acquire the club?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

your assuming that their exit strategy from ccfc includes letting the stadium go with the club. it is possible that their exit strategy could be sell the club and the club alone while owning a big commercial property with a sitting tenant tied to a 150year lease in it with no access to match day revenue on their portfolio. that type of thing is very attractive to potential hedge fund investors.

...not when they know the inevitable consequence of that is the club is liquidated...

 

[Godiva]

your assuming that their exit strategy from ccfc includes letting the stadium go with the club. it is possible that their exit strategy could be sell the club and the club alone while owning a big commercial property with a sitting tenant tied to a 150year lease in it with no access to match day revenue on their portfolio. that type of thing is very attractive to potential hedge fund investors.

i'm not saying that will be the case, but where is the evidence to the contrary? it's certainly not shitsu's history of business dealings away from CCFC

But how would they sell a football club that doesn't own its stadium - or in other words, who would buy the club without the prospect of buying the shares in ACL?

 

[skybluetony176]

But how would they sell a football club that doesn't own its stadium - or in other words, who would buy the club without the prospect of buying the shares in ACL?

shitsu did, make of that what you will.

 

[DaleM]

But how would they sell a football club that doesn't own its stadium - or in other words, who would buy the club without the prospect of buying the shares in ACL?

There is one born every minute

 

[skybluetony176]

...not when they know the inevitable consequence of that is the club is liquidated...

OK, i might have exaggerated the rental agreement a wee bit. but large commercial properties look good in a portfolio. that's why pension companies own so much land and property. the industrial estate i work on in rugby is owned lock stock and barrel by a pension company, there is 3 blocks of offices at the entrance and over half of them are empty and have been since day one but they don't care, it looks good on their portfolio and attracts investors and make it easy to borrow for future investments as over time money is always safe in land and property so its secure..

 

[Godiva]

EDIT) just to had they will also have a property that the can re-mortgage again and again as its commercial value go's up other years to come. how many people do you know who have re-mortgaged their house time and time again?

Mortgaging is a natural part of financing. ACL is mortgaged, it's not a conspiracy.
When sisu sell up a new owner will take over the mortgage as part of the sale.

 

[skybluetony176]

Mortgaging is a natural part of financing. ACL is mortgaged, it's not a conspiracy.
When sisu sell up a new owner will take over the mortgage as part of the sale.

when shitsu sell what exactly? the club? does the club include the ground?

i don't doubt that they will sell the club at some point. if you look at shitsu's history 8-10years is the usual time scale that they look to off load their investments but again you are assuming that the club and ground will be united and sold as one and there is zero evidence to say that they will be. even if you look at shitsu's statements yes they say things like the club should have full access to match day revenues but i cant recall them ever stating that the club will own the ground (waits to be corrected) and wont be sitting tenants. you need to read between the lines to some degree and not take everything that timmy and shitsu say at face value.

 

[Ian Coventry]

Do you really think sisu are going to gift us a shiny new stadium for free?

They won't be gifting anyone a shiny new stadium as you put it, the stadium will belong to Sisu as does coventry city football club. They are one and the same until such time as sisu sell the club to a new owner. Its not possible to be charged rent for a stadium that you own, its simply impossible.

 

[skybluetony176]

They won't be gifting anyone a shiny new stadium as you put it, the stadium will belong to Sisu as does coventry city football club. They are one and the same until such time as sisu sell the club to a new owner. Its not possible to be charged rent for a stadium that you own, its simply impossible.

the management fees that the club went into administration for was fees charged to the club from shitsu (basically they put themselves into administration for a debt they had charged to themselves and then didn't pay. still cant work out how that's allowed to be legal) so if you can charge yourself management fee's i would be pretty sure you can charge yourself rent.

the same as starbucks charging themselves image rights for the starbucks mermaid logo as a big tax dodge.

 

[kingharvest]

Thanks KH, an interesting read. My initial response turned into a long, slightly ranty piece (not about you KH; primarily about Sisu's PR) but I doubt anyone wants to wade through that, so I'll just post a couple of queries:


Can you say anything about "the club being 15 minutes from ceasing to exist this summer" comment on Cov Mad? (not a direct quote, just working off memory)


I think someone may have already asked this, but did she give any rough indication of what terms they would be looking for if they were to return to Ricoh? Only if Sisu can purchase? Short-term rental?


Did anyone ask why (as of about a month ago) there did not appear to have been any preliminary discussions with neighbouring authorities about submitting plans for a stadium?


Apologies if that repeats anything anyone has already asked while I was drafting my original reply.

1. They didn't quote 15 minutes to me, but they did say it was the day before the start of the season and the football league were prepared to start the season with 71 clubs.

2. No news on terms for the Ricoh - a deal that works for the club. It's unlikely they would share that anyway given it would be a commercial negotiation.

3. Informal discussions with planning authorities. I mentioned before that ccc aren't exactly popular with neighbouring councils. I imagine it's all hush hush as they're scared the council may jump in.

 

[Ian Coventry]

the management fees that the club went into administration for was fees charged to the club from shitsu (basically they put themselves into administration for a debt they had charged to themselves and then didn't pay. still cant work out how that's allowed to be legal) so if you can charge yourself management fee's i would be pretty sure you can charge yourself rent.

the same as starbucks charging themselves image rights for the starbucks mermaid logo as a big tax dodge.

Good shout i am going to start charging myself rent for my house I'll make a fortune, and of course I'll tell the taxman and he will probably give me a rebate , thanks for the tips mate I am going to be rich pretty soon.

 

[kingharvest]

IMO the best work the Trust ever did was that Q&A. I'd be really interested to know who came up with the questions because there are some blinders.

"24: Did CCFC inform ACL that it intends to move to a new built ground in South Warwickshire
ACL: Yes, Chris West and Paul Harris were advised post 29 January 2013 meeting during a follow up discussion with Tim Fisher, Mark Labovitch and John Clarke, that the Club wanted a three year run off period. This was totally rejected by the ACL representatives. There were no details provided of the location other than “South Warwickshire”, and that it would potentially take three years.
CCFC: Yes but this is very much a Plan B. With modern building techniques a stadium could be built quicker and cheaper than ever. Majority of funding would be done by developer who would benefit from retail, hotel as well as bank lending and CCFC would simply cover any funding gap. This is a feasible option but not CCFC’s preferred course of action – that is reaching agreement and staying at the Ricoh."

Tim Fisher repeated this, that they'd offered a short term rental deal whilst a new ground was built but it was rejected.

 

[kingharvest]

Suprised no one has picked up on this typical Fisher nonsense. - Yes Tim, FFP is for all clubs, but we will be the only club basing the figure on an average attendance of 2000. No team's budget will be as reduced as ours. If ever there was a season we needed to play at the Ricoh - £1 million a year rent or not - it is this one.

It's a good point. I made the same argument to him, that if we're basing T/O on attendances of 2000, isn't that league 2 levels? So how far are you prepared to drop?

He said that it's about the balance between promising young players on low wages and senior pro's. But I think if that's the plan they're putting an awful lot of pressure on waggot and pressley and the coaching team to identify bargains on low wages - robins did it with moussa I guess - and also on the academy to keep producing great players. Otherwise we end up another Crewe....and as much as I admire Crewe, we should be more ambitious than that.

 

[skybluetony176]

Good shout i am going to start charging myself rent for my house I'll make a fortune, and of course I'll tell the taxman and he will probably give me a rebate , thanks for the tips mate I am going to be rich pretty soon.

it don't apply to the likes of you and me. you need an army of lawyers on your payroll who now how to exploit the loopholes.

 

[skybluetony176]

3. Informal discussions with planning authorities. I mentioned before that ccc aren't exactly popular with neighbouring councils. I imagine it's all hush hush as they're scared the council may jump in.

freedom of information's act has already proven this to be a crock of .... well you get the point.