The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (2 Viewers)

[Astute]

Well is that drug money, weapons or prostitution? I think not. And they can prove it.

Apple is not an EU company or tax payer, which is what I was talking about.

Thanks btw for confirming that we are the worst offenders through our dependencies.

Cheers to Astute. Going to get pissed in my pub now. Pub is full. Live music tonight.

How about this from the EU commission?

Corruption across EU 'breathtaking'

How about an honest reply for once?

 

[Sick Boy]

Italian mafia 'turns to wind farm investment to launder money and benefit from EU subsidies' | Daily Mail Online

How a winemaker is taking on Sicily's rural Mafia

EU subsidies 'looted' by Bulgarian mafia

Italy repays £307 million to EU after road project 'mafia corruption' exposed

Making a killing on contracts: how Italy's Mafia has plundered EU building funds

I was right about it being over 1 billion. But shocked how bad it is. We pay 5 billion a year into such payments. Between 2000 and 2012 Italy received 60 billion into such causes. So work oit how much more they have had since. If at the same rate they have received another 25 billion. Look at the last link.

These links all came on the 1st page of a google search. It is widespread fraud that they know about. And some wonder why our EU payments are so high.

I mentioned this before but no one bothered to comment.

It seems that you are now realising that A LOT of Italy's woes are due to Mafia. I lived in Sicily for about 1 year in the west of the island which is very beautiful but Mafia country.

I lived in a little town called Alcamo and ended up getting a PON contract teaching in the state schools over there. One of them was a horrible town called Castelvetrano and it's where the current leader of La Cosa Nostra was born.

It was the sort of town where you could imagine peope closing their shutters as someone was shot in the street. It would have been even worse had it not been for EU money, despite the fact a lot was basically stolen.

As I mentioned before when you claimed the EU had ruined Italy, it's problems are very much due to Mafia. Ask any Sicilian and they will tell you that the mafia is basically the government.

It's a very sad state of affairs but is so deep it is never going to go away.

 

[Sick Boy]

It didn't revert back. It has never left the point about the money. They want us to agree what we will pay for. But they won't say how much it will cost.

I am not sure if it is to screw every last Euro out of us they can or if it is their last attempt to get us to stay.

...or just for Britain to pay what it should do. It also wants progress on the Irish border but says a lot of progress has been made on citzens' rights despite your claim they were refusing to even discuss it.

 

[Astute]

I mentioned this before but no one bothered to comment.

It seems that you are now realising that A LOT of Italy's woes are due to Mafia. I lived in Sicily for about 1 year in the west of the island which is very beautiful but Mafia country.

I lived in a little town called Alcamo and ended up getting a PON contract teaching in the state schools over there. One of them was a horrible town called Castelvetrano and it's where the current leader of La Cosa Nostra was born.

It was the sort of town where you could imagine peope closing their shutters as someone was shot in the street. It would have been even worse had it not been for EU money, despite the fact a lot was basically stolen.

As I mentioned before when you claimed the EU had ruined Italy, it's problems are very much due to Mafia. Ask any Sicilian and they will tell you that the mafia is basically the government.

It's a very sad state of affairs but is so deep it is never going to go away.

I knew about it. But I didn't know how bad it is. And I didn't know that the EU knew how bad it is but kept pumping in untold billions without keeping a proper eye on it.

 

[clint van damme]

I agree with you totally there.

And that is one of the best reasons for getting out of the EU as it can then can no longer be blamed for the failures of Britain's own politicians.

that won't stop them, The tories are still blaming Labour for the state of the economy now!

 

[Sick Boy]

I knew about it. But I didn't know how bad it is. And I didn't know that the EU knew how bad it is but kept pumping in untold billions without keeping a proper eye on it.

It is across the whole country, sadly. The wind farm one is the worst as I'm sure that half of them in Sicily don't even work, so you have beautiful mountainous scenery which has been ruined.

 

[Sick Boy]

I agree with you totally there.

And that is one of the best reasons for getting out of the EU as it can then can no longer be blamed for the failures of Britain's own politicians.

I genuinely think they will have a go for a good while afterwards still!

 

[Astute]

...or just for Britain to pay what it should do. It also wants progress on the Irish border but says a lot of progress has been made on citzens' rights despite your claim they were refusing to even discuss it.

I didn't say that they refused to talk about it. I said they refused to come to an agreement until we said what we would pay for while not knowing what it will cost us. And I also said about how can we decide what the border in Ireland will look like if we don't know anything about the trade deal. But the border problem needs sorting first if what Barnier says is true.

 

[Sick Boy]

It's also waged war against the state with bombing campaigns and when someone within the state Giovanni Falcone - Wikipedia went after them what happened? Anti-Mafia Judge, 5 Others Killed by Car Bomb in Sicily - Falcone was murdered the day before.

Ordinary people were so shocked and appalled they took to the streets and protested.

Guess what? The leader of the Mafia was 'found' within a year after being on the rUn for over 20 years and many believe his location had always been known within government.

 

[Sick Boy]

I didn't say that they refused to talk about it. I said they refused to come to an agreement until we said what we would pay for while not knowing what it will cost us. And I also said about how can we decide what the border in Ireland will look like if we don't know anything about the trade deal. But the border problem needs sorting first if what Barnier says is true.

It is because they are likely pushing for NI to remain within the Single Market, which is going to be inevitable. How else can they maintain an open border when the UK is going to drop its standards to get trade deals with the US?

 

[Astute]

that won't stop them, The tories are still blaming Labour for the state of the economy now!

I agree.

But it is still a non story. Labour blames the Tories. The Tories blame Labour. It isn't just a one way thing. They rarely hold their hands up and admit mistakes. They have someone they can blame.

Try forgetting about party allegiance fir a minute.

The Tories bring in austerity. They bring in tax cuts which benefit the better off. They bring in rules that benefit companies run by the rich.

Labour spends money that isn't there. They bring in tax rises that affect the rich. They are tied in with the unions that looks after the workers. National debt goes up quicker. But the well less off are better off.

Not all right all of the time. But generally correct. The better off want the Tories. The less well off want Labour.

 

[Kingokings204]

It is across the whole country, sadly. The wind farm one is the worst as I'm sure that half of them in Sicily don't even work, so you have beautiful mountainous scenery which has been ruined.

Blimey, you have something in common with trump and farage. They detest wind farms and are very open about it.

I for one hate the things with a massive passion. The best of it is they don’t even produce that much energy making it pointless. They ruin our country side and now they put them in the sea. Look off most costal towns now and they are covered in them. They are a disaster.

They make rich land owners even richer though so I guess it’s all ok.

 

[Sick Boy]

Blimey, you have something in common with trump and farage. They detest wind farms and are very open about it.

I for one hate the things with a massive passion. The best of it is they don’t even produce that much energy making it pointless. They ruin our country side and now they put them in the sea. Look off most costal towns now and they are covered in them. They are a disaster.

They make rich land owners even richer though so I guess it’s all ok.

I was going to add that I don't detest them but when they don't work at all in a beautiful location they are a blight.

There are loads of them just off the coast of Brighton that you can see from the beach, which I have no problem with but many seem to.

I do wonder how effective they are though at times.

 

[Astute]

I was going to add that I don't detest them but when they don't work at all in a beautiful location they are a blight.

There are loads of them just off the coast of Brighton that you can see from the beach, which I have no problem with but many seem to.

I do wonder how effective they are though at times.

When I moved here there wasn't a windmill in sight. Now there are hundreds of them and it will be the biggest in the UK when finished. You used to look out to sea and could only see the Isle of Man on a clear day. Now all you can see is windmills.

 

[Kingokings204]

When I moved here there wasn't a windmill in sight. Now there are hundreds of them and it will be the biggest in the UK when finished. You used to look out to sea and could only see the Isle of Man on a clear day. Now all you can see is windmills.

Really? I didn’t know that. That’s what really makes me angry. It’s ruining our scapes. Land and sea. They produce very little energy for the monstrosity they are and are basically a way of making rich land owners a bit of extra pocket money as they are paid to put them on their land.

I agree we have got to go green and less pollution but surely there are better ideas than this. I would get on a treadmill 24-7 if it meant these hideous things were taken down.

 

[Sick Boy]

Really? I didn’t know that. That’s what really makes me angry. It’s ruining our scapes. Land and sea. They produce very little energy for the monstrosity they are and are basically a way of making rich land owners a bit of extra pocket money as they are paid to put them on their land.

I agree we have got to go green and less pollution but surely there are better ideas than this. I would get on a treadmill 24-7 if it meant these hideous things were taken down.

Thanks for volunteering We most certainly do need to go green and the likes of Trump claiming it's all a hoax doesn't help.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

I was going to add that I don't detest them but when they don't work at all in a beautiful location they are a blight.

There are loads of them just off the coast of Brighton that you can see from the beach, which I have no problem with but many seem to.

I do wonder how effective they are though at times.

I spoke to a guy at a college where they had one I think it cost 250k so I asked him what it powered and he said a light bulb (they needed it for people to practice repairing)

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I agree with you totally there.

And that is one of the best reasons for getting out of the EU as it can then can no longer be blamed for the failures of Britain's own politicians.

There'll always be a scapegoat, alas.

 

[martcov]

It didn't revert back. It has never left the point about the money. They want us to agree what we will pay for. But they won't say how much it will cost.

I am not sure if it is to screw every last Euro out of us they can or if it is their last attempt to get us to stay.

They want us to put in writing what we mean when we say we will meet our commitments and that no member will pay more because of us before we have left. The details can be talked about later.

 

[martcov]

You tell us that you are very highly qualified in this field. So would you like to explain how we are the worst offenders?

The EU relies on the UK for three-quarters of its hedging activities, three-quarters of its foreign exchange, half its lending and half its securities transactions. For Europe’s politicians, the terms of a post-Brexit financial services deal clearly have the potential to influence the prosperity, efficiency and safety of the continent’s entire economy.

But with this comes the legality of the funds. If it looks clean then what can be done? Does every Euro out of the trillions going through London each year have to be checked? The frauds need to be stopped in the EU countries first.

Italy is a country that is costing the EU a massive amount of money through fraud. The Mafia is in on it. They claim money for farmers when the land isn't even owned by those claiming the subsidies. People are getting forced off their own land. It is estimated to have cost well over a billion Euros so far. Yet on paper it is clean money. And the EU keeps handing more over. But yes lets blame London.

I never claimed to be highly qualified. Apart from that, I am 62 years old and things have changed a lot since I did my exams. But, we were talking about countries allowing tax dodging by big companies.

The mafia and criminal gangs are a different subject.

As for not being able to check every euro, I agree with that, which is why I mentioned that controls have become much stronger in Jersey and information is shared with the UK and other EU countries.

You are the one with a fixation. Juncker and the EU being evil. I just pointed out that we are known for allowing international tax dodgers secrecy, which is why Apple got Appleby to check out our dependencies- as Grendel rightly pointed out.

 

[Astute]

They want us to put in writing what we mean when we say we will meet our commitments and that no member will pay more because of us before we have left. The details can be talked about later.

I have previously shown you the links. They want us to agree to what we have to pay for. It isn't how much yet. May has tried putting a number to it. But Barnier isn't interested in a number until later. This includes loans to be made to EU countries. And we only get it back if the loans are paid back.

 

[Astute]

I never claimed to be highly qualified. Apart from that, I am 62 years old and things have changed a lot since I did my exams. But, we were talking about countries allowing tax dodging by big companies.

The mafia and criminal gangs are a different subject.

As for not being able to check every euro, I agree with that, which is why I mentioned that controls have become much stronger in Jersey and information is shared with the UK and other EU countries.

You are the one with a fixation. Juncker and the EU being evil. I just pointed out that we are known for allowing international tax dodgers secrecy, which is why Apple got Appleby to check out our dependencies- as Grendel rightly pointed out.

You said we were the worse culprits. I did this link for you yesterday. You didn't reply to it.
Corruption across EU 'breathtaking'

 

[martcov]

I have previously shown you the links. They want us to agree to what we have to pay for. It isn't how much yet. May has tried putting a number to it. But Barnier isn't interested in a number until later. This includes loans to be made to EU countries. And we only get it back if the loans are paid back.

That is basically it. Barnier said we don’t have to go into fine detail yet.

 

[martcov]

You said we were the worse culprits. I did this link for you yesterday. You didn't reply to it.
Corruption across EU 'breathtaking'

I was busy in a different town. I’ll check it out. But, we are not talking about corruption. You were on about low rates of tax in Luxemburg. I was pointing out that we are at least as guilty - according to some the worst offenders- if you count our dependencies in. Grendel posted an example of Apple hiding billions in Jersey. I said the EU has made harder for EU citizens and companies to stash money in Jersey, and I can confirm that through personal experience.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Really? I didn’t know that. That’s what really makes me angry. It’s ruining our scapes. Land and sea. They produce very little energy for the monstrosity they are and are basically a way of making rich land owners a bit of extra pocket money as they are paid to put them on their land.

I agree we have got to go green and less pollution but surely there are better ideas than this. I would get on a treadmill 24-7 if it meant these hideous things were taken down.

The whole wind turbine business is a fucking stitch up........starting with the myth of sustainability.........

The massive amounts of copper & nickel/copper alloy used to produce & connect these monsters means they are about as "green" as Donald Trump burning the worlds protected species on an open oil fire.....

Complete fucking farce.

 

[martcov]

The whole wind turbine business is a fucking stitch up........starting with the myth of sustainability.........

The massive amounts of copper & nickel/copper alloy used to produce & connect these monsters means they are about as "green" as Donald Trump burning the worlds protected species on an open oil fire.....

Complete fucking farce.

In Germany: 12,3 % of electricity production, 28217 windmills, 80 terawatt capacity.

They have to build a network from north to south to transport the power from the wind parks at sea in the north of Germany. The production increased more rapidly than the net available to use the power.

The blades are light weight and from various light weight materials. Apparently they have better materials now which will ensure greater longevity and less maintenance.

I don’t like them spoiling the landscape on land or at sea. On the other hand, open mining for brown coal or burning coal is also not exactly a nice alternative.

 

[Astute]

That is basically it. Barnier said we don’t have to go into fine detail yet.

So you think it is right that we should agree to pay what we don't know what we are paying before we can say to those that have moved to the UK that they will be able to stay?

 

[Sick Boy]

The whole wind turbine business is a fucking stitch up........starting with the myth of sustainability.........

The massive amounts of copper & nickel/copper alloy used to produce & connect these monsters means they are about as "green" as Donald Trump burning the worlds protected species on an open oil fire.....

Complete fucking farce.

Blimey. First you move over to the dark side by voting leave and now attacking green energy.

 

[Astute]

I was busy in a different town. I’ll check it out. But, we are not talking about corruption. You were on about low rates of tax in Luxemburg. I was pointing out that we are at least as guilty - according to some the worst offenders- if you count our dependencies in. Grendel posted an example of Apple hiding billions in Jersey. I said the EU has made harder for EU citizens and companies to stash money in Jersey, and I can confirm that through personal experience.

There is always an according to some.

Nothing can touch what Luxembourg has done.

 

[Sick Boy]

So you think it is right that we should agree to pay what we don't know what we are paying before we can say to those that have moved to the UK that they will be able to stay?

The UK has always been free to do that but sadly it has openly admitted that these people are bargaining chips.

Liam Fox: EU nationals in UK one of 'main cards' in Brexit negotiations

 

[Astute]

The whole wind turbine business is a fucking stitch up........starting with the myth of sustainability.........

The massive amounts of copper & nickel/copper alloy used to produce & connect these monsters means they are about as "green" as Donald Trump burning the worlds protected species on an open oil fire.....

Complete fucking farce.

Same as with cars. The batteries don't last forever and they are not green to make. Then you have how the electricity is made to charge them.

The greener thing is to run older cars that they replace.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

From what I've read, the amount of energy required to produce a wind turbine is approximately 2.5 times greater than the energy its capable of generating during its useful life......factor in the environmental impact of raw material extraction, production etc. & the onging maintenance + de-commissioning & its clear that these are not a green energy solution.....

 

[Astute]

The UK has always been free to do that but sadly it has openly admitted that these people are bargaining chips.

Liam Fox: EU nationals in UK one of 'main cards' in Brexit negotiations

We could say they can all stay without an agreement and then have those from the UK living in the EU told they must come back.

 

[Sick Boy]

We could say they can all stay without an agreement and then have those from the UK living in the EU told they must come back.

That would be very unlikely, especially as they'd also have protections thanks to a cetrain treaty. I can't remember the name of it now. The UK is the one responsible for the uncertainty; the government has openly admitted it!!

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Blimey. First you move over to the dark side by voting leave and now attacking green energy.

I love green energy solutions SB......I even vote Green despite knowing its a waste of my time.....but wind turbines are not green....