The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (14 Viewers)

[martcov]

What’s a bigger scandal is Heidi Whatshername and Austerity Anna get any airtime as they command a whopping 4% and they are getting equal footing with Farage

Really? They are complaining that they don’t ( at least Heidi is ). Farage won’t debate her. I thought he wasn’t afraid of interviews and believed in democracy?

 

[martcov]

I couldn’t care about his manifesto - I want him to cause mayhem in the Brussels Reichstag - how can you have a manifesto when we are supposed to be leaving?

He is supposed to be more than a one trick pony and is bragging about taking part in the next general election. You’d think a Democrat like Farage would tell people what his aims are. Which is what Marr was trying to find out when Farage started attacking him.

His face was plastered all over the digital screen ( like an electronic scoreboard ) when you come into Kiel when I came home yesterday. Ugh! The headline read „“Farage is back. A danger for Europe.“

He is everywhere.

 

[Grendel]

Really? They are complaining that they don’t ( at least Heidi is ). Farage won’t debate her. I thought he wasn’t afraid of interviews and believed in democracy?

Why would be? No one at the head of the polls does or would. She shouldn’t even be allowed to debate - she’s a leader of a fringe party of cowards and traitors who the public do not give a fuck about and yet the bbc give them equal airtime in debates - one of her cronies was on 5 Live today - Austerity Anna - and she as ever made an utter fool of herself

How much BBC radio do you listen to yo know what airtime she gets

 

[Ian1779]

Crap.
As leader of a party that’s polling at 34% and growing, it would be scandalous if broadcasters weren’t queueing up to get him on TV and radio.
He's on TV and radio because he’s not scared of being interviewed. Unlike Corbyn and May who are frightened to show their face and dodge every opportunity.

It's a one concept party in an election for a parliament they don't want to be in. It's opportunism at it's finest. And he is only happy being interviewed when he is in control of the discussion, if he's not he spits his dummy out.

 

[Astute]

Traders and investors stand to make money on the collapse of the pound. Doesn’t mention anything about the forgotten people in post industrial Britain. They have been told to believe in Britain and, by Farage, that Juncker is permanently drunk after lunch and that they should vote for the BXP to show their faith in Great Britain.

And I suppose the poor have never been ignored before this?

We have always been run for the benefit of the rich. And think about it. The better off have benefited much more with the cheap labour that freedom of movement has given. Look at us now. Record employment. Lowest amount of jobless for 50 years. Is it the poor who have benefited? Why haven't you protested about this?

 

[shmmeee]

Crap.
As leader of a party that’s polling at 34% and growing, it would be scandalous if broadcasters weren’t queueing up to get him on TV and radio.
He's on TV and radio because he’s not scared of being interviewed. Unlike Corbyn and May who are frightened to show their face and dodge every opportunity.

Farage “not scared of interviews”


Why does he spit his dummy whenever he’s asked any questions he doesn’t like then?

 

[shmmeee]

And I suppose the poor have never been ignored before this?

We have always been run for the benefit of the rich. And think about it. The better off have benefited much more with the cheap labour that freedom of movement has given. Look at us now. Record employment. Lowest amount of jobless for 50 years. Is it the poor who have benefited? Why haven't you protested about this?

Do you think the libertarian, free market ideologues leading the Brexit charge want free markets in everything except labour?

Most of the Brexit campaigners promised more immigration, not less. It was the voters that made it about immigration, to the denial of all the leading figures.

They outright said they want more immigration from the Indian subcontinent and the voters went “yeah kick out the Muzzies!!”

Open door immigration is by definition a right wing policy. They just arent honest about it.

 

[Astute]

It's a one concept party in an election for a parliament they don't want to be in. It's opportunism at it's finest. And he is only happy being interviewed when he is in control of the discussion, if he's not he spits his dummy out.

He is someone who knows how to hold a stage. And he has been given a platform by people like yourself who just want to totally ignore about half the population. You said they didn't have a voice like the remainers who went on a march. And you wouldn't listen when I said it would change when it looked like we might not be leaving. Now I have been shown to be correct yet again you see it as a complete travesty.

You were never going to keep half the population silent. Now it has become messier than it needed. And all because many tried to silent those who voted against what you and other millions wanted. But if course you will still pretend not to get the point.

 

[Astute]

Do you think the libertarian, free market ideologues leading the Brexit charge want free markets in everything except labour?

Most of the Brexit campaigners promised more immigration, not less. It was the voters that made it about immigration, to the denial of all the leading figures.

They outright said they want more immigration from the Indian subcontinent and the voters went “yeah kick out the Muzzies!!”

Open door immigration is by definition a right wing policy. They just arent honest about it.

And yet again you don't consider a point I have made but make out it is a view of my own.

 

[skybluetony176]

Did anyone see the Huw Edwards interview with Ferage yesterday?

Blah blah BMW, blah blah blah French wine, blah blah blah WTO, blah blah blah technology blah blah blah.

Basically he still has no answers so is regurgitating the same old factless and already dismissed urban myths. I was half expecting him to claim Marc Almond has taken a line up of sailers meaning he had to have his stomach pumped because he’d overdosed on spunk and the doctors counted a gazillion different types of semen in his stomach.

 

[Astute]

It's a one concept party in an election for a parliament they don't want to be in. It's opportunism at it's finest. And he is only happy being interviewed when he is in control of the discussion, if he's not he spits his dummy out.

A one trick pony who has learned a second trick.

He would still be a nobody if those in charge never played into his hands constantly. But he has been given an audience yet again.

 

[skybluetony176]

He is someone who knows how to hold a stage. And he has been given a platform by people like yourself who just want to totally ignore about half the population. You said they didn't have a voice like the remainers who went on a march. And you wouldn't listen when I said it would change when it looked like we might not be leaving. Now I have been shown to be correct yet again you see it as a complete travesty.

You were never going to keep half the population silent. Now it has become messier than it needed. And all because many tried to silent those who voted against what you and other millions wanted. But if course you will still pretend not to get the point.

Half the population didn’t even vote so I’m not sure how you can claim half the population voted for brexit. It was about a quarter at best.

 

[Astute]

Half the population didn’t even vote so I’m not sure how you can claim half the population voted for brexit. It was about a quarter at best.

So children and babies should have voted now?

It was people like yourself who voted for Farage and UKIP that gave him a stage.

 

[Grendel]

Farage “not scared of interviews”


Why does he spit his dummy whenever he’s asked any questions he doesn’t like then?

Bit like you when someone mentions Coventry City Council

 

[Grendel]

Did anyone see the Huw Edwards interview with Ferage yesterday?

Blah blah BMW, blah blah blah French wine, blah blah blah WTO, blah blah blah technology blah blah blah.

Basically he still has no answers so is regurgitating the same old factless and already dismissed urban myths. I was half expecting him to claim Marc Almond has taken a line up of sailers meaning he had to have his stomach pumped because he’d overdosed on spunk and the doctors counted a gazillion different types of semen in his stomach.

Heat getting to you Tony?

 

[Sick Boy]

I couldn’t care about his manifesto - I want him to cause mayhem in the Brussels Reichstag - how can you have a manifesto when we are supposed to be leaving?

I take it you wouldn’t vote for him in a GE then?

 

[skybluetony176]

So children and babies should have voted now?

It was people like yourself who voted for Farage and UKIP that gave him a stage.

Should they? I wouldn’t say so. Which is exactly the point. Half the population didn’t vote for brexit. You could just acknowledge your mistake instead of taking bollocks.

 

[skybluetony176]

Heat getting to you Tony?

I take it you haven’t seen it then?

 

[Grendel]

I take it you haven’t seen it then?

Marc almond in an orgy - oddly no

 

[Ian1779]

He is someone who knows how to hold a stage. And he has been given a platform by people like yourself who just want to totally ignore about half the population. You said they didn't have a voice like the remainers who went on a march. And you wouldn't listen when I said it would change when it looked like we might not be leaving. Now I have been shown to be correct yet again you see it as a complete travesty.

You were never going to keep half the population silent. Now it has become messier than it needed. And all because many tried to silent those who voted against what you and other millions wanted. But if course you will still pretend not to get the point.

You must have me confused with someone else...

I have argued countless times that the Remain approach has been arrogant, fronted by careerists that do not remotely appeal to anyone other than their London-centric focus groups.

I have also argued that the root cause of Leave is austerity, inequality and an abandonment of post-industrial towns, funding and infrastructure only seems to exist south of Milton Keynes.

I agree that you can not abandon half the population, and this is why I have consistently said that Labour have the hardest gap to bridge. A largely remain vote in and around the capital, however in the marginal seats they need to hold AND win - its leave in the majority. Their ambivalence has come from not knowing which side to fall on. 12 months ago I would say that Labour should be trying to convince their Leave voters that they can transform their lives with their manifesto and build a better world without the need to leave. Now I think it’s the Remainers that need to come over and accept we have to go.

Farage has exploited this situation for sure.... but he can’t live in the Brexit bubble forever

 

[Sick Boy]

You must have me confused with someone else...

I have argued countless times that the Remain approach has been arrogant, fronted by careerists that do not remotely appeal to anyone other than their London-centric focus groups.

I have also argued that the root cause of Leave is austerity, inequality and an abandonment of post-industrial towns, funding and infrastructure only seems to exist south of Milton Keynes.

I agree that you can not abandon half the population, and this is why I have consistently said that Labour have the hardest gap to bridge. A largely remain vote in and around the capital, however in the marginal seats they need to hold AND win - its leave in the majority. Their ambivalence has come from not knowing which side to fall on. 12 months ago I would say that Labour should be trying to convince their Leave voters that they can transform their lives with their manifesto and build a better world without the need to leave. Now I think it’s the Remainers that need to come over and accept we have to go.

Farage has exploited this situation for sure.... but he can’t live in the Brexit bubble forever

I understand where you’re coming from and the remain campaign was dire, but the problem is that in reality how is Brexit going to improve the lives of those who voted remain, and leave for that matter.

How is leaving the EU going address the Londoncentric approach and bridge the gap between the rich and the poor? There’s little to suggest that Brexit would do any of that and that those at the top in favour of it have any inclination to do so.

It’s no good just saying remainers have to get on side, it’s going to take hard evidence to convince these people.

 

[skybluetony176]

Marc almond in an orgy - oddly no

That’s because it never happened. Like nobody was shitting themselves over cheese, wine or BMW sales, like some miracle technology doesn’t exist etc etc etc

 

[shmmeee]

I understand where you’re coming from and the remain campaign was dire, but the problem is that in reality how is Brexit going to improve the lives of those who voted remain, and leave for that matter.

How is leaving the EU going address the Londoncentric approach and bridge the gap between the rich and the poor? There’s little to suggest that Brexit would do any of that and that those at the top in favour of it have any inclination to do so.

It’s no good just saying remainers have to get on side, it’s going to take hard evidence to convince these people.

The argument goes that voting for establishment parties also didn’t solve their problems. So you offer them a great big unknown and enough go “fuck it, how bad can it be?”

It’s no good Corbyn or (lol) May making promises to change things when they’re seen as useless and incapable of change anyway.

It’s got to the point where half the country wants to lower immigration because they see it as a cure for all societies ills, and the other refuses to even consider it because to deny one person entry basically makes you a Nazi or some shit and that protecting our current immigration system is literally more important than any other political topic.

Farage gets free votes because both parties allowed it to become the defining issue and refuse to tackle it (one openly, one pretends to but does nothing).

At this point it’s just a matter of principle and not even about the benefits Brexit might bring, you won’t reason anyone out of their position. This might just be the price one half of the country pays for ignoring the other, as stupid and self destructive as that is.

 

[Ian1779]

I understand where you’re coming from and the remain campaign was dire, but the problem is that in reality how is Brexit going to improve the lives of those who voted remain, and leave for that matter.

How is leaving the EU going address the Londoncentric approach and bridge the gap between the rich and the poor? There’s little to suggest that Brexit would do any of that and that those at the top in favour of it have any inclination to do so.

It’s no good just saying remainers have to get on side, it’s going to take hard evidence to convince these people.

I’m not saying I’m right, and in fact your good points are testament to the fact that it is incredibly complex.

Since the result I feel the remain camp have merely trotted out the line of 'you were wrong to vote Leave, you were misinformed/stupid/naive'. Look at the people championing the 2nd Ref/PV - Umanna, Soubry, Blair, Cable..... people that not going to inspire anyone, especially not Leave voters.

They have utterly lost the argument, even when you have evidence that exiting the EU would have a detrimental effect. That's why I feel it may have to be this camp that moves first to find a middle ground.

The Tories were telling everyone that this negotiation was going to be a piece of piss, and we'd have the EU eating out of our hands, but it couldn't have been further from the truth. People love to try and pin this on Labour, but actually they can't do a thing... they don't have the numbers in terms of seats, and their ambivalence will have cost them voters, but their vote demographic was the most complex of all the parties.

My problem with Farage is that he wants a Hard Brexit for his own personal gain. And he is now pushing the notion that anything other than that isn't really Brexit. It's a lie and he knows it.

A solution? Who knows...

 

[Ian1779]

The argument goes that voting for establishment parties also didn’t solve their problems. So you offer them a great big unknown and enough go “fuck it, how bad can it be?”

Because when you already have nothing, it actually can't be any worse.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Farage “not scared of interviews”


Why does he spit his dummy whenever he’s asked any questions he doesn’t like then?

I can only assume you’re referring to the interview where he rightly challenged ach-remainer Marr on his line of questioning. He exposed the spluttering BBC stooge as a biased dimwit and in the process strengthened his own popularity.

 

[Astute]

You must have me confused with someone else...

I have argued countless times that the Remain approach has been arrogant, fronted by careerists that do not remotely appeal to anyone other than their London-centric focus groups.

I have also argued that the root cause of Leave is austerity, inequality and an abandonment of post-industrial towns, funding and infrastructure only seems to exist south of Milton Keynes.

I agree that you can not abandon half the population, and this is why I have consistently said that Labour have the hardest gap to bridge. A largely remain vote in and around the capital, however in the marginal seats they need to hold AND win - its leave in the majority. Their ambivalence has come from not knowing which side to fall on. 12 months ago I would say that Labour should be trying to convince their Leave voters that they can transform their lives with their manifesto and build a better world without the need to leave. Now I think it’s the Remainers that need to come over and accept we have to go.

Farage has exploited this situation for sure.... but he can’t live in the Brexit bubble forever

It wasn't meant for you sorry. You are one of the rare ones on here that looks at both sides without bias. And it is a very hard thing to do sometimes.

 

[Ian1779]

I can only assume you’re referring to the interview where he rightly challenged ach-remainer Marr on his line of questioning. He exposed the spluttering BBC stooge as a biased dimwit and in the process strengthened his own popularity.

Still didn't answer the questions though did he....

Just spent the time making himself out to be some kind of victim. I did also notice that he didn't take long to get over it and was back on the BBC in no time...

 

[Astute]

Should they? I wouldn’t say so. Which is exactly the point. Half the population didn’t vote for brexit. You could just acknowledge your mistake instead of taking bollocks.

What mistake? Stop talking the bollocks you accuse me of and explain who the half was that didn't vote for Brexit then. Because if it was votes cast over half voted to leave. That is why we are in this mess. But you said half the population didn't even vote. But as usual you try to change what you have said.

Half the population didn’t even vote so I’m not sure how you can claim half the population voted for brexit. It was about a quarter at best.

So who is the half of the population that didn't vote?

 

[Astute]

I understand where you’re coming from and the remain campaign was dire, but the problem is that in reality how is Brexit going to improve the lives of those who voted remain, and leave for that matter.

How is leaving the EU going address the Londoncentric approach and bridge the gap between the rich and the poor? There’s little to suggest that Brexit would do any of that and that those at the top in favour of it have any inclination to do so.

It’s no good just saying remainers have to get on side, it’s going to take hard evidence to convince these people.

And there is the problem. Try telling those who voted leave that things will improve if we remain in the EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

I’m not saying I’m right, and in fact your good points are testament to the fact that it is incredibly complex.

Since the result I feel the remain camp have merely trotted out the line of 'you were wrong to vote Leave, you were misinformed/stupid/naive'. Look at the people championing the 2nd Ref/PV - Umanna, Soubry, Blair, Cable..... people that not going to inspire anyone, especially not Leave voters.

They have utterly lost the argument, even when you have evidence that exiting the EU would have a detrimental effect. That's why I feel it may have to be this camp that moves first to find a middle ground.

The Tories were telling everyone that this negotiation was going to be a piece of piss, and we'd have the EU eating out of our hands, but it couldn't have been further from the truth. People love to try and pin this on Labour, but actually they can't do a thing... they don't have the numbers in terms of seats, and their ambivalence will have cost them voters, but their vote demographic was the most complex of all the parties.

My problem with Farage is that he wants a Hard Brexit for his own personal gain. And he is now pushing the notion that anything other than that isn't really Brexit. It's a lie and he knows it.

A solution? Who knows...

Both sides have trotted out empty lines, it’s not just the remain side and there’s been nothing from the leave side that has ever convinced me of a positive in relation to leaving apart from empty rhetoric. None of those at the top genuinely care about addressing the most pressing issues.

 

[martcov]

And I suppose the poor have never been ignored before this?

We have always been run for the benefit of the rich. And think about it. The better off have benefited much more with the cheap labour that freedom of movement has given. Look at us now. Record employment. Lowest amount of jobless for 50 years. Is it the poor who have benefited? Why haven't you protested about this?

Record employment and lowest amount of jobless? When I worked in the UK after leaving school, I had a job for life. Theoretically. We had training courses, a sports club, activities, Christmas parties subsidised by the employer etc..

That was a job. Now we have the gig economy, full time carers for relatives, zero hours contracts and count employment as from 1 hour a week. Non of this is to do with the EU, but bends the statistics to show wonderful results.

By leaving the EU, we stand to become even more of an American style economy in comparison to our EU neighbours. The rich benefit and the poor end up doing more than one job to keep themselves going.

The next step in an economic free for all will be the dismantling of the NHS, probably as a part of any USA trade deal.

I have said that Labour should come out for remain and help the social democrats in the EU pull the EU in a more social direction. Leaving the EU will have the opposite effect to creating a fairer society. Farage is not asking people to believe in making the UK a better place in Socialist terms, he is asking people to leave based on becoming a free nation again, and gaining respect throughout the world by doing so. Empty and meaningless rhetoric.

The BXP has yet to offer anything to improve the lot of the less well off. All Farage talks about are the same old sound bites... Juncker, unelected old men, EU army, regulations etc etc. No vision of helping those left behind. Just less people speaking foreign languages and less traffic jams on the M4 after the nasty Romanians and Bulgarians have left. Who would want Romanians as next door neighbours? As he’said.

 

[martcov]

I can only assume you’re referring to the interview where he rightly challenged ach-remainer Marr on his line of questioning. He exposed the spluttering BBC stooge as a biased dimwit and in the process strengthened his own popularity.

No he didn’t. He spat his dummy out when confronted with his own statements. Just shows why his party won’t mention any of their aims except to leave without a plan.

 

[martcov]

And there is the problem. Try telling those who voted leave that things will improve if we remain in the EU.

Whether things improve depends on the UK government. The Union is not a super state and does not rule the UK. The UK government is responsible for the UK economy, and more importantly, wealth distribution within the UK. You just fell into the trap. Blame the EU. Ignore the fact that the UK has a sovereign parliament and passes it’s own laws.

Back to Selmayr and Juncker soon. Lets the UK government off the hook.

Leaving solves nothing. If anything it creates more potential problems by putting the country into the situation of a distressed trading partner. A pointless for the point of view of the UK less well off, but handy for creating a more US style economy away from EU labour rights and regulatory protections. Plus it takes the heat of Crown Colony tax havens.

 

[djr8369]

Whether things improve depends on the UK government. The Union is not a super state and does not rule the UK. The UK government is responsible for the UK economy, and more importantly, wealth distribution within the UK. You just fell into the trap. Blame the EU. Ignore the fact that the UK has a sovereign parliament and passes it’s own laws.

Back to Selmayr and Juncker soon. Lets the UK government off the hook.

Leaving solves nothing. If anything it creates more potential problems by putting the country into the situation of a distressed trading partner. A pointless for the point of view of the UK less well off, but handy for creating a more US style economy away from EU labour rights and regulatory protections. Plus it takes the heat of Crown Colony tax havens.

It solves the issue of people running out of ways to increase wealth disparity.


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