Disheartening Sky Blue's Story On The Way..

[shmmeee]

Of course they need to get money if they are owed it. I guess the argument is "who's fault is it that it fell through".

No. That's Sisus argument.

The Higgs one is simply "pay what you agreed"

 

[Nick]

No. That's Sisus argument.

The Higgs one is simply "pay what you agreed"

But surely it matters as to whos fault it was that it fell through to see whether they need to pay out? If it turns out that it was the Charity's fault it fell through, why should SISU pay them?

 

[shmmeee]

What a stupid comment and that will sound rich coming from the bloke who put stupid in stupidity, but really? The facts to this tireless and ridicilous situation are muddy, unclear and confusing to state that you shouldn't be able to post on these topics without the clear facts should leave us all of these threads.

I wasn't serious but it does get tiresome correcting basic factual errors like who owns what.

Maybe an FAQ?

 

[chiefdave]

But surely it matters as to whos fault it was that it fell through to see whether they need to pay out? If it turns out that it was the Charity's fault it fell through, why should SISU pay them?

How could ACL refinancing with CCC possibly impact on SISU purchasing Higgs 50% share of ACL on which we are told a HOT had already been agreed. Even if it happened over the period the sale was being discussed ACL owed Yorkshire Bank the same amount (at a higher interest rate) prior to CCC taking over the loan.

 

[Nick]

How could ACL refinancing with CCC possibly impact on SISU purchasing Higgs 50% share of ACL on which we are told a HOT had already been agreed. Even if it happened over the period the sale was being discussed ACL owed Yorkshire Bank the same amount (at a higher interest rate) prior to CCC taking over the loan.

I am not saying it did, but surely once it is out who "ended" the talks and were at fault for the talks breaking down then they will know whether SISU should pay the charity. If SISU walked away then of course pay what they owe.

 

[The CableGuy]

We need some kind of self marking quiz that you have to pass to post in these topics. I have no issue with different opinions, but it's pointless if people don't grasp the basic facts.

I've seen people post that the council can do what they like with ACL cos yet own it. That the Higgs Center and the Higgs Charity are the same organisation, etc. If you don't get that stuff it's easy to go off half cocked.

Maybe someone could do a 'who owns what' thread and Nick could stick it at the top of the page?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I wasn't serious but it does get tiresome correcting basic factual errors like who owns what.

Maybe an FAQ?

For that then I apologise, having watched this thread develop I think everyone should just let the Courts decide who is in the right or wrong because there are a lot of assumptions being banded about.

 

[chiefdave]

I am not saying it did, but surely once it is out who "ended" the talks and were at fault for the talks breaking down then they will know whether SISU should pay the charity. If SISU walked away then of course pay what they owe.

That could have been achieved in the original action. SISU could have gone to court and defended why they didn't need to pay Higgs, if successful they could then recover costs. No need to counter sue to get everything out in the open.

 

[covcity4life]

What like "a Sisu win will help CCFC"?

Completely incapable of adult conversation again I see.

i never said a sisu win WILL help ccfc.

i said it MIGHT be our best hope.

you dont need to lie. im not the enemy.

 

[shmmeee]

But surely it matters as to whos fault it was that it fell through to see whether they need to pay out? If it turns out that it was the Charity's fault it fell through, why should SISU pay them?

Because they agreed to pay their costs. End of.

 

[shmmeee]

i never said a sisu win WILL help ccfc.

i said it MIGHT be our best hope.

you dont need to lie. im not the enemy.

I know you're not. Just so pissed off at all this.

But surely you can see your reasoning for believing it will help is no stronger or weaker than mine for thinking it won't.

That's the entire point. Once Sisu have control anything can happen and we can't stop them.

They've done nothing to make me trust their intentions. I want my club back and on a secure footing just like you. I'm just not convinced that handing Sisu the ability to load the club with debt is the way to do that.

The case for a rental deal working has been made several times. I'm still waiting for someone to explain the reasoning behind the alternative. Until then I'll treat it the same as any other unsubstantiated opinion.

 

[ccfc92]

sorry, but is the disheartening news the Higgs-SISU thing?

 

[covcity4life]

I know you're not. Just so pissed off at all this.

But surely you can see your reasoning for believing it will help is no stronger or weaker than mine for thinking it won't.

That's the entire point. Once Sisu have control anything can happen and we can't stop them.

They've done nothing to make me trust their intentions. I want my club back and on a secure footing just like you. I'm just not convinced that handing Sisu the ability to load the club with debt is the way to do that.

The case for a rental deal working has been made several times. I'm still waiting for someone to explain the reasoning behind the alternative. Until then I'll treat it the same as any other unsubstantiated opinion.

of course i agree, thats why i have not attacked anyone over how they see todays news.

i dont know if its good or bad, i dont know what outcome will be. i have no faith in either side. but i do think stuff like this might bring things to a head as it doesn't look like peaceful means will work.

im all about the end game, sometimes that comes across as heartless no doubt.

 

[italiahorse]

Sounds as there was some sort of agreement whether verbal or written and Sisu would rather pay more than £30K in legals than pay £30K to a charity.

New depths being reached by Sisu yet people are still happy to keep feeding them oxygen.

 

[ccfc92]

sorry, but is the disheartening news the Higgs-SISU thing?

This was a genuine question, just got in from work

 

[covcity4life]

This was a genuine question, just got in from work

sorry made me giggle

yes............yes it is

 

[Ashdown1]

Posters strike out at anyone who try's to suggest what might happen in the future as if nothing has actually been done in the past. How much further do you want these disgusting people to drag our club down. How much more humiliation do you want the fans of this historical and important institution to suffer before enough is enough. We can learn about the future from history and SISU have history.....................

 

[ccfc92]

sorry made me giggle

yes............yes it is

cheers im on Higgs side :slap:

 

[covcity4life]

cheers im on Higgs side :slap:

i dont mind who wins as long as brings ccfc home.

 

[shmmeee]

of course i agree, thats why i have not attacked anyone over how they see todays news.

i dont know if its good or bad, i dont know what outcome will be. i have no faith in either side. but i do think stuff like this might bring things to a head as it doesn't look like peaceful means will work.

im all about the end game, sometimes that comes across as heartless no doubt.

I wasn't talking about today's stuff with you, just the endgame.

You believe (if I read you correctly) that it's OK if Sisu "smash the council" etc. because you think that that will result in a CCFC that is strong going forward.

I believe it'll do the opposite. I've stated why (allows Sisu to load the club with debt). I'd appreciate it if you did the same. So far all I've seen are assertions that despite all their previous action, Sisu will gift the stadium to CCFC then stroll off into the night after selling to some benevolent force.

Now THAT is flying dragon stuff.

 

[ccfc92]

i dont mind who wins as long as brings ccfc home.

exactly

 

[covcity4life]

I wasn't talking about today's stuff with you, just the endgame.

You believe (if I read you correctly) that it's OK if Sisu "smash the council" etc. because you think that that will result in a CCFC that is strong going forward.

I believe it'll do the opposite. I've stated why (allows Sisu to load the club with debt). I'd appreciate it if you did the same. So far all I've seen are assertions that despite all their previous action, Sisu will gift the stadium to CCFC then stroll off into the night after selling to some benevolent force.

Now THAT is flying dragon stuff.

whilst sisu own us i dont think they will charge themselves extorionate rent. crazy i know

if they sell us they will need to offer a good stadium deal to any would be buyer.

council have hurt us for over a decade. can sisu do any worse? not a great situation to be in

 

[RoboCCFC90]

i dont mind who wins as long as brings ccfc home.

I think there is more chance of Ann Lucas being Predator at this point...

 

[mds]

Higgs conflict of interest that caused the breakdown!
Doing a deal to sell wjile witholding information, (by the way we may be remortgaging) that may change the outcome of the deal!
Pot kettle and black!

Probably be corrected!

 

[James Smith]

I did put "I have said it loads of times through this thread" when I clearly hadn't which I thought might be enough.

I had read through the whole thing and got it, but the potential for confusion is always ever present.

 

[James Smith]

That could have been achieved in the original action. SISU could have gone to court and defended why they didn't need to pay Higgs, if successful they could then recover costs. No need to counter sue to get everything out in the open.

But Sisu wouldn't have started a legal action and that would have spoilt their legal fun.

 

[skybluetony176]

The thing is GPE you're happy to say "Yes it's fine Higgs are sueing Sisu" yet the moment it's countered, you're all up in arms about it, plus we don't even know if the charges Sisu are supposedly liable to pay were signed on, verbal agreement, handshake..

You know what they say about a verbal contract not being worth the paper it's written on?

If it was verbal I would say higgs had no grounds for legal action in the first place and most likely have not taken that gamble. Their not a hedge fund who pride themselves on litigating the opposition into surrender, they're a charity who help under privileged children.

 

[James Smith]

Higgs conflict of interest that caused the breakdown!
Doing a deal to sell wjile witholding information, (by the way we may be remortgaging) that may change the outcome of the deal!
Pot kettle and black!

Probably be corrected!

I think that the trustees who make the decisions at the charity aren't connected to the council who were the ones who did the buying of the loan later on in the year.

 

[valiant15]

council should neve rhave bailed them out

reap what you sow?

i think our only hope is sisu smash acl and ccc and get the ricoh, any chance of a good will handshake has gone.

I wish someone would smash you you thick twat.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I wish someone would smash you you thick twat.

Ooh kinky


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[RoboCCFC90]

You know what they say about a verbal contract not being worth the paper it's written on?

If it was verbal I would say higgs had no grounds for legal action in the first place and most likely have not taken that gamble. Their not a hedge fund who pride themselves on litigating the opposition into surrender, they're a charity who help under privileged children.

It does make you wonder though, is it signed on a dotted line, from what we have always assumed Sisu never signed nowt?


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[blueflint]

i can't believe some posters are trying to defend SISU in all this as they are despicable and god help us if they win

 

[RoboCCFC90]

i can't believe some posters are trying to defend SISU in all this as they are despicable and god help us if they win

I am not defending Sisu but everything action has a reaction, if the AEHC believed that they could sue Sisu in a court of Law and not expect Sisu to put up a fight in their own corner then they were mad.


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[thaiskyblue]

i can't believe some posters are trying to defend SISU in all this as they are despicable and god help us if they win

This is shamefull, i'm speachless that some people still try and justify the things are owners do. They want the ground for peanuts , so they can benifit , not ccfc, and now they are hasseling a charity, what is going on , why has our club come to this, i feel ashamed .

 

[shmmeee]

whilst sisu own us i dont think they will charge themselves extorionate rent. crazy i know

if they sell us they will need to offer a good stadium deal to any would be buyer.

council have hurt us for over a decade. can sisu do any worse? not a great situation to be in

Who said anything about rent?

If Sisu own the freehold they can load the club with debt (by taking out a mortgage on the Ricoh) then either sell or liquidate. Why wouldn't they? They'd get all the money back, job done.

Seriously, it's statements like "the council have hurt us" that make it look like you've just got a political axe to grind. What exactly have they done that has "hurt" us? And please don't go on about 10 points again when Sisu were the ones that orchestrated that and could've stopped the big bad council at any time by paying what they legally owed.