M25 blocking

[Nick]

We’re talking more about climate change than we were.

I’m not defending them, I think they’re arseholes. But my overall point is protest is about more than “what tangible government action got taken the day after the protest”

Are people talking about it because of them though?

I'm sure they will have been the reason COP26 is on next.

 

[shmmeee]

Are people talking about it because of them though?

I'm sure they will have been the reason COP26 is on next.

Yeah this thread was literally started by you cos they’re bellends. Why didn’t you start a thread about the many other climate change protests?

Shit that makes people angry goes viral.

 

[Nick]

If in 10 years time this policy is in place and homes are getting insulated it would be that what they're doing now was successful.

Is that when everybody jumps in to try and claim it was because of them though even if it really isn't?

That is another thing that seems to happen a lot, the delusion. The amount that people claimed the Trust and their cronies "Achieved" was very delusional.

 

[Nick]

Yeah this thread was literally started by you cos they’re bellends. Why didn’t you start a thread about the many other climate change protests?

Shit that makes people angry goes viral.

Yeah, the talk is about how they are bellends.

We aren't sharing home insulation tips.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

How many thousands / tens of thousands / hundreds of thousands of failed protests are there for every one of those?

Pretty sure you said the same about the bullshit the trust was doing as well.

"The Suffragettes protested so it must mean that some batshit mental old people sat in the motorway are going to change the world too".

But until either what they want occurs or the protest group disbands it's impossible to say if they have failed or not.

The suffragettes 'failed' for over 20 years before they got what they wanted.

There were people campaigning to leave the EU from the moment we joined and were unsuccessful for over 40 years before Brexit happened. Those campaigning to rejoin now are unsuccessful unless at some point we rejoin.

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah, the talk is about how they are bellends.

We aren't sharing home insulation tips.

We can if you want?

Get some thick curtains and draught excluders for a start.

 

[Nick]

We can if you want?

Get some thick curtains and draught excluders for a start.

I just put more clothes on, job done.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Did it? I thought they abandoned protests in 1914 and it was the recognition of the war effort and womens role in it that led to a movement on the voting laws changing for men and women in 1918. The actual protests achieved no move of the needle and didn't they have some womens committee during the war that led to some changes? Also the political landscape itself massively changed. Without that how did it work?

Certainly the war sped up the process of getting women the vote.

But let's say the suffrage movement hadn't occurred pre-war and they hadn't campaigned to get the vote. Do you think that without it WWI alone would have got women the vote?

 

[shmmeee]

I just put more clothes on, job done.

Saves in therapy bills for the kids later as well, double bubble.

 

[shmmeee]

Certainly the war sped up the process of getting women the vote.

But let's say the suffrage movement hadn't occurred pre-war and they hadn't campaigned to get the vote. Do you think that without it WWI alone would have got women the vote?

The support in parliament pre war was significant and on the rise thanks to the campaigns prior. Only a troll would argue otherwise.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Is that when everybody jumps in to try and claim it was because of them though even if it really isn't?

That is another thing that seems to happen a lot, the delusion. The amount that people claimed the Trust and their cronies "Achieved" was very delusional.

There can be an element of that and some will indeed try to 'big up' their own role in it, but it may well be a small part of a much wider effort to achieve the overall aims.

 

[bezzer]

They are.

India and China are well down the list FYI. Canada and Australia are worse. The oil producing countries the very worst. Of course they aren’t producing all that oil for themselves…

Not sure where you get your figures from, but China top the list of countries for C02 emissions; double the US who are the next on the list. List from 2016 so I suppose there may have been some changes. However with China announcing a raft of new coal powered power stations and expanding oil exploration, I can't see their footprint reducing anytime soon.


CO2 Emissions by Country
Search:

#	Country	CO2 Emissions (tons, 2016)	1 Year Change	Population (2016)	Per capita	Share of world
1	China	10,432,751,400	-0.28%	1,414,049,351	7.38	29.18%
2	United States	5,011,686,600	-2.01%	323,015,995	15.52	14.02%
3	India	2,533,638,100	4.71%	1,324,517,249	1.91	7.09%
4	Russia	1,661,899,300	-2.13%	145,275,383	11.44	4.65%
5	Japan	1,239,592,060	-1.21%	127,763,265	9.70	3.47%
6	Germany	775,752,190	1.28%	82,193,768	9.44	2.17%
7	Canada	675,918,610	-1.00%	36,382,944	18.58	1.89%
8	Iran	642,560,030	2.22%	79,563,989	8.08	1.80%
9	South Korea	604,043,830	0.45%	50,983,457	11.85	1.69%
10	Indonesia	530,035,650	6.41%	261,556,381	2.03	1.48%
11	Saudi Arabia	517,079,407	0.92%	32,443,447	15.94	1.45%
12	Brazil	462,994,920	-6.08%	206,163,053	2.25	1.29%
13	Mexico	441,412,750	-2.13%	123,333,376	3.58	1.23%
14	Australia	414,988,700	-0.98%	24,262,712	17.10	1.16%
15	South Africa	390,557,850	-0.49%	56,207,646	6.95	1.09%
16	Turkey	368,122,740	5.25%	79,827,871	4.61	1.03%
17	United Kingdom	367,860,350	-6.38%	66,297,944	5.55	1.03%
18	Italy	358,139,550	0.84%	60,663,060	5.90	1.00%
19	France	331,533,320	2.11%	64,667,596	5.13	0.93%
20	Poland	296,659,670	2.67%	37,989,220	7.81	0.83%

Sources

• Emission Database for Global Atmospheric Research (EDGAR)
• CO2 Emissions from Fuel Combustion - IEA
• World Population Prospects: The 2019 Revision - United Nations Population Division

 

[COV]

Not sure where you get your figures from, but China top the list of countries for C02 emissions; double the US who are the next on the list. List from 2016 so I suppose there may have been some changes. However with China announcing a raft of new coal powered power stations and expanding oil exploration, I can't see their footprint reducing anytime soon.


CO2 Emissions by Country
Search:

#	Country	CO2 Emissions (tons, 2016)	1 Year Change	Population (2016)	Per capita	Share of world
1	China	10,432,751,400	-0.28%	1,414,049,351	7.38	29.18%
2	United States	5,011,686,600	-2.01%	323,015,995	15.52	14.02%
3	India	2,533,638,100	4.71%	1,324,517,249	1.91	7.09%
4	Russia	1,661,899,300	-2.13%	145,275,383	11.44	4.65%
5	Japan	1,239,592,060	-1.21%	127,763,265	9.70	3.47%
6	Germany	775,752,190	1.28%	82,193,768	9.44	2.17%
7	Canada	675,918,610	-1.00%	36,382,944	18.58	1.89%
8	Iran	642,560,030	2.22%	79,563,989	8.08	1.80%
9	South Korea	604,043,830	0.45%	50,983,457	11.85	1.69%
10	Indonesia	530,035,650	6.41%	261,556,381	2.03	1.48%
11	Saudi Arabia	517,079,407	0.92%	32,443,447	15.94	1.45%
12	Brazil	462,994,920	-6.08%	206,163,053	2.25	1.29%
13	Mexico	441,412,750	-2.13%	123,333,376	3.58	1.23%
14	Australia	414,988,700	-0.98%	24,262,712	17.10	1.16%
15	South Africa	390,557,850	-0.49%	56,207,646	6.95	1.09%
16	Turkey	368,122,740	5.25%	79,827,871	4.61	1.03%
17	United Kingdom	367,860,350	-6.38%	66,297,944	5.55	1.03%
18	Italy	358,139,550	0.84%	60,663,060	5.90	1.00%
19	France	331,533,320	2.11%	64,667,596	5.13	0.93%
20	Poland	296,659,670	2.67%	37,989,220	7.81	0.83%

Sources

• Emission Database for Global Atmospheric Research (EDGAR)
• CO2 Emissions from Fuel Combustion - IEA
• World Population Prospects: The 2019 Revision - United Nations Population Division

I assume he means per capita

 

[bezzer]

I assume he means per capita

Maybe.

 

[Grendel]

I assume he means per capita

I doubt the planet deals in a per capita calculation.

 

[chiefdave]

So what's the answer? There's been passive environmental protests since the 70s and as people on this thread are keen to point out they've achieved pretty much nothing.

There's also been protests against countries at the top of the list for emissions and companies responsible for emissions, again they've achieved nothing. Governments pay little more than lip service, announcing targets decades in the future and doing very little to actually achieve them.

Assuming people aren't saying climate change isn't a thing how do you bring about the changes required?

 

[Grendel]

So what's the answer? There's been passive environmental protests since the 70s and as people on this thread are keen to point out they've achieved pretty much nothing.

There's also been protests against countries at the top of the list for emissions and companies responsible for emissions, again they've achieved nothing. Governments pay little more than lip service, announcing targets decades in the future and doing very little to actually achieve them.

Assuming people aren't saying climate change isn't a thing how do you bring about the changes required?

How about starting by isolating China - refusing to buy any commodities from them and buying goods from countries with a commitment to ero carbon emmissions by 2050?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not sure where you get your figures from, but China top the list of countries for C02 emissions; double the US who are the next on the list. List from 2016 so I suppose there may have been some changes. However with China announcing a raft of new coal powered power stations and expanding oil exploration, I can't see their footprint reducing anytime soon.


CO2 Emissions by Country
Search:

#	Country	CO2 Emissions (tons, 2016)	1 Year Change	Population (2016)	Per capita	Share of world
1	China	10,432,751,400	-0.28%	1,414,049,351	7.38	29.18%
2	United States	5,011,686,600	-2.01%	323,015,995	15.52	14.02%
3	India	2,533,638,100	4.71%	1,324,517,249	1.91	7.09%
4	Russia	1,661,899,300	-2.13%	145,275,383	11.44	4.65%
5	Japan	1,239,592,060	-1.21%	127,763,265	9.70	3.47%
6	Germany	775,752,190	1.28%	82,193,768	9.44	2.17%
7	Canada	675,918,610	-1.00%	36,382,944	18.58	1.89%
8	Iran	642,560,030	2.22%	79,563,989	8.08	1.80%
9	South Korea	604,043,830	0.45%	50,983,457	11.85	1.69%
10	Indonesia	530,035,650	6.41%	261,556,381	2.03	1.48%
11	Saudi Arabia	517,079,407	0.92%	32,443,447	15.94	1.45%
12	Brazil	462,994,920	-6.08%	206,163,053	2.25	1.29%
13	Mexico	441,412,750	-2.13%	123,333,376	3.58	1.23%
14	Australia	414,988,700	-0.98%	24,262,712	17.10	1.16%
15	South Africa	390,557,850	-0.49%	56,207,646	6.95	1.09%
16	Turkey	368,122,740	5.25%	79,827,871	4.61	1.03%
17	United Kingdom	367,860,350	-6.38%	66,297,944	5.55	1.03%
18	Italy	358,139,550	0.84%	60,663,060	5.90	1.00%
19	France	331,533,320	2.11%	64,667,596	5.13	0.93%
20	Poland	296,659,670	2.67%	37,989,220	7.81	0.83%

Sources

• Emission Database for Global Atmospheric Research (EDGAR)
• CO2 Emissions from Fuel Combustion - IEA
• World Population Prospects: The 2019 Revision - United Nations Population Division

People have made the point that some of that for China etc is for consumption abroad. They are currently the workshop of the world so they will create more emissions but that is driven by consumption. If people don't buy the shit, they won't make it. In that respect I would imagine the U.S. would be the worst although again we could do more as we're very much a consumerist society.

I did notice the figures are from five years ago so I imagine Brazil has increased it's emissions significantly under Bolsonaro.

 

[Grendel]

You could also globally start by considering this

Interactive: What is the climate impact of eating meat and dairy?

Food production accounts for one-quarter of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions. It takes up half of the planet’s habitable surface.

interactive.carbonbrief.org

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

How about starting by isolating China - refusing to buy any commodities from them and buying goods from countries with a commitment to ero carbon emmissions by 2050?

Something along those lines isn't a bad place to start, but as people like yourself will point out it's highly likely costs would increase massively as a result and politically that's not going to do well for them short-term and so they'll avoid it. Not to mention the diplomatic consequences although I think we concern ourselves too much with that. Lead by example and make people reach up to you, not go down to them.

It would be interesting to see how the Chinese reacted to something like that though as their economy would take a massive hit but with the control the CPC has over everything I imagine they would be able to spin it domestically that it's all the fault of other countries.

 

[chiefdave]

How about starting by isolating China - refusing to buy any commodities from them and buying goods from countries with a commitment to ero carbon emmissions by 2050?

You could also globally start by considering this

Interactive: What is the climate impact of eating meat and dairy?

Food production accounts for one-quarter of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions. It takes up half of the planet’s habitable surface.

interactive.carbonbrief.org

Both great ideas so how does some idiot who is currently gluing themselves to the road go about achieving them?

 

[shmmeee]

Maybe.

Why would you measure any other way?

 

[Grendel]

Why would you measure any other way?

Because if you stop China tomorrow 30% of the problem goes away and also it’s industrial activity is increasing

 

[shmmeee]

hEy GuYs!! wHy DoNt We JuSt ChAnGe ThE eNtIrE gLoBaL eCoNoMy AnD eVeRyOnEs EaTiNg HaBiTs?

Grendel mate you’d fit right in at any far left crank group.

People say the craziest things to uphold their ideology. Just support transport and housing to go low carbon rather than farting around the edges in the hopes you can cling to the notion governmental action isn’t needed.

 

[Grendel]

Oh dear - he really gets triggered when animal welfare and environmental matters are discussed - shows the type of human being he is - not a nice one

 

[Nick]

We need to catch those Fugitive Emissions. Fucking Met Police.

 

[SBT]

I'm gonna say it - if it's a choice between insulating my house, or starting a full-blown trade war (and potentially an actual war) with China, I think I'm going to go with the insulation?

 

[Grendel]

I'm gonna say it - if it's a choice between insulating my house, or starting a full-blown trade war (and potentially an actual war) with China, I think I'm going to go with the insulation?

I'm sure its the answer. Insulate Britain and save the world

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

How many thousands / tens of thousands / hundreds of thousands of failed protests are there for every one of those?

Pretty sure you said the same about the bullshit the trust was doing as well.

"The Suffragettes protested so it must mean that some batshit mental old people sat in the motorway are going to change the world too".

You are a poor debater. You love belittling people. I stand by the fact that the protests about climate change will end up being seen in the same light as the suffragettes in terms of their effectiveness and impact on our world. Maybe not this group

They’ve acceded to grendel and you know so well done

Insulate Britain suspends road protests for 11 days

The climate protest group has blocked motorways and roads in the London area in the last five weeks.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Nick]

You are a poor debater. You love belittling people. I stand by the fact that the protests about climate change will end up being seen in the same light as the suffragettes in terms of their effectiveness and impact on our world. Maybe not this group

They’ve acceded to grendel and you know so well done

Insulate Britain suspends road protests for 11 days

The climate protest group has blocked motorways and roads in the London area in the last five weeks.

www.bbc.co.uk

I am pointing out facts.

You specifically said these insulate Britain people.

They are having a break for the school holidays.

So deluded sometimes. It's not even just trying to see the best in people.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I am pointing out facts.

You specifically said these insulate Britain people.

They are having a break for the school holidays.

So deluded sometimes. It's not even just trying to see the best in people.

You say I’m deluded I say you’re cynical at least we don’t resort to violence

 

[chiefdave]

hEy GuYs!! wHy DoNt We JuSt ChAnGe ThE eNtIrE gLoBaL eCoNoMy AnD eVeRyOnEs EaTiNg HaBiTs?

Turns out the Climate Change Committee recommended, back in December 2020, a 20% reduction in meat & dairy consumption by 2030 but that target was rejected by the government.

The government will look to meet this reduction target through investing and capitalising on new green technologies and innovation, whilst maintaining people’s freedom of choice, including on their diet. That is why the government’s sixth Carbon Budget of 78% is based on its own analysis and does not follow each of the Climate Change Committee’s specific policy recommendations.

 

[Astute]

Steve Bray is not in the same league as that Liam fella. He's actually fairly articulate and I think his intentions are genuine even though I think his protest ran its course a long time ago.

That Liam is a moron who doesn't seem to understand what he's protesting about.

He is like several others of the protestors. They are protesting against what they do themselves. Then they wonder why people are getting pissed off with them.

 

[Astute]

You say I’m deluded I say you’re cynical at least we don’t resort to violence

We?

Have you been a part of blocking the roads and causing a massive amount of pollution?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

We?

Have you been a part of blocking the roads and causing a massive amount of pollution?

Me and Nick