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Did Sisu appeal?

chiefdave said:
The lease extension was agreed at the same meeting as the sale to Wasps. They could have extended the lease at that point under CCC / Higgs ownership knowing there was an anchor tenant coming in.
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It still wouldn't have had the higher value until someone was playing there. And we were never coming back if you remember.
 
Astute said:
When a serious bidder came along yes.

As you know SISU kept coming to an agreement with Higgs ant then pulling out at the last minute. Each time they came back with a lower bid. Until finally they offered nothing but a 1m donation as they were a charity.

So what serious bid did they give to CCC? Oh yes I remember now. They refused to talk. They were only interested in ACL without the loan attached. Remember that word? Unencumbered.

And some still try and blame CCC for everything.
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I remember the word uencumbered - Anne Lucas said it a lot - not sure what she meant by it.

As for serious bid - are you sure about that. To my knowledge the club were always advised to purchase the Higgs Share first weren't they?

Why do you keep saying a £1 million donation? One it was £2 million and second it was a purchase of shares not a charitable donation.
 
Grendel said:
I remember the word uencumbered - Anne Lucas said it a lot - not sure what she meant by it.

As for serious bid - are you sure about that. To my knowledge the club were always advised to purchase the Higgs Share first weren't they?

Why do you keep saying a £1 million donation? One it was £2 million and second it was a purchase of shares not a charitable donation.
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1, It was Fisher who kept stating they only wanted the freehold unencumbered. But you know that.

What we now know about the Ricoh Arena row... and some things we don't
 
chiefdave said:
The lease extension was agreed at the same meeting as the sale to Wasps. They could have extended the lease at that point under CCC / Higgs ownership knowing there was an anchor tenant coming in.
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Ok, to keep Grendel happy, I'll make some guesses.
Maybe extending it first would make the price too high for Wasps and the Council and Higgs would continue to have to run ACL with no tenants.
Maybe extending the lease and increasing the value of the asset they half owned would be classed as illegal state aid.
I doubt there is any smoking gun anywhere in the Council's decision making process, and it seems that so far all their decisions that have been challenged in Court hold up to scrutiny. As I say they were willing to extend the lease if SISU bought a share, would you challenge that decision?
 
chiefdave said:
We had returned to the Ricoh at the point the council agreed to sell to Wasps and extend the lease.
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But as we all know the deal had been done by then.

How could we have gone back as tenants of Wasps if they hadn't sealed the deal?
 
Astute said:
But as we all know the deal had been done by then.

How could we have gone back as tenants of Wasps if they hadn't sealed the deal?
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We didn't we were tenants of ACL
 
Grendel said:
We didn't we were tenants of ACL
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Which is owned by?

I suppose you are now saying that we would have left Northampton and come back home even if Wasps never bought ACL.
 
chiefdave said:
The lease extension was agreed at the same meeting as the sale to Wasps. They could have extended the lease at that point under CCC / Higgs ownership knowing there was an anchor tenant coming in.
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And who was going to pay for it and from where. ACL couldn't afford it and neither share holder had any interest in investing.

SISU could invest in the club and sell us when we're back in premier league and worth more. That ain't going to happen either for exactly the same reasons yet you seem to accept that.

The only difference between SISU and CCC/Higgs is that CCC/Higgs had the good business sense to cut their loses and get out when the opportunity arose.
 
Astute said:
I know what the implications of SISU acting like a bunch of twats are and losing us the chance of taking over the arena are.
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What's the implications of that? Guess you missed the question which is why you swerved it.
 
Grendel said:
What's the implications of that? Guess you missed the question which is why you swerved it.
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Spell out your question properly and I will answer it. I am not like you. I don't answer a question with another question or false information.
 
chiefdave said:
The council loaned them £14m when, given the sale price, ACL was worth less than £6m. Why not loan then £15m, sell the lease extension then you have ACL worth far more than the loan.

Or Higgs give ACL a bridging loan knowing a sale is imminent and they'll get their money straight back.
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The 14m was secured on the assets of ACL including a lease valued in the accounts at 18m+ so wasn't based on the overall value of ACL or its sale price at all. The security actually exceeded the loan value

Due to be being placed in a distressed state ACL did not have the cash to achieve an extension. For the council to lend the money for an extension would have probably brought a judicial review that would have hampered finances of ACL. Would either Sisu or wasps have paid more because of a longer lease? In any case with no anchor tenant then the increase in value would it have been significant. As I keep saying the value of the lease extended or not is not the same for CCC & AEHC as it is now for wasps.

The charity could not have provided such a loan under current charity rules. It risked good money after bad on an investment AEHC wanted out of.

The original lease should have been longer. Extending the lease then selling might not have achieved any great increase prior to sale to wasps. It might simply increase to match the loan needed. It might have driven wasps away leaving CCC & AEHC in trouble given Sisu were saying often and loudly they were not planning on Ccfc staying effectively distressing themselves in addition to Sisu doing it. The risk was losing everything. That may well have let Sisu the site on the cheap but it is risk CCC assessed would be too great for all of CCC taxpayers not just the Ccfc ones.
 
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Unencumbered as I understand it meant without ACL and its lease. Complicated and expensive to achieve and even Fisher told me it was just not possible. Was never going to happen, it would left CCC and AEHC totally out of pocket
 
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oldskyblue58 said:
Unencumbered as I understand it meant without ACL and its lease. Complicated and expensive to achieve and even Fisher told me it was just not possible
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And without ACL and the lease that would have meant no money secured on it.

Would you say that they used this approach just to bring the price down or were they after just that OSB?
 
The club statement is carefully worded (been away so not commented before) Ccfc is a trading name, legally nothing more than that. The golden share is registered to otium not Ccfc. If otium is still involved then so are Ccfc to think or believe anything else is to believe in the misdirection going on

As for not paying the legal costs then possibly not directly no. But if loans or interest are paid then those amounts could be used to finance the costs. There are 3 Sisu related companies involved only two could provide finance otium and ARVO.

Then you have CT requoting the nonsense that Sisu have put 101m in to the football club. Complete rubbish and the analysis looks at one year in isolation failing to understand basic group accounting principles and what actually has gone on
 
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Nick said:
I was pointing out to compare people who sponsor Wasps as a rugby team and CCFC as a football team so it was like for like.

Both will probably have more sponsors and partners than you have listed anyway. I was just pointing out that somehow you managed to miss a massive blue image with a Nike tick on when listing CCFC's ;)
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Might want to look at the ricoh arena partners as ACL etc are owned by wasps. There are quite a few others listed

It lists ricoh as a partner and I seem to remember that there was a rolling but smaller stadium sponsorship. So I think people are missing that there is still some overall stadium sponsorship to add to the various rooms lounges etc that are sponsored. Including the ricoh business suite agreed in June this year.

Wasps have significant and many partners. Partners would want to be declared on either club website wouldn't they not be hidden ? Ccfc don't seem to have that many according to their website.
 
Astute said:
Spell out your question properly and I will answer it. I am not like you. I don't answer a question with another question or false information.
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You bought up the phrase I am just asking your interpretation of it it's hardly difficult.
 
Astute said:
And without ACL and the lease that would have meant no money secured on it.

Would you say that they used this approach just to bring the price down or were they after just that OSB?
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At that time the stance tied in with distressing ACL they were demanding something that they and others knew couldn't be achieved
 
Grendel said:
You bought up the phrase I am just asking your interpretation of it it's hardly difficult.
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What phrase? The one from Fisher that you said came from Lucas?
 
oldskyblue58 said:
At that time the stance tied in with distressing ACL they were demanding something that they and others knew couldn't be achieved
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Indeed. It's such strange and specific terminology to use.
 
chiefdave said:
We had returned to the Ricoh at the point the council agreed to sell to Wasps and extend the lease.
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Also returned at a point where Ccfc finances would have been severely hampered at sixfields meaning Sisu would have to finance greater losses or otium go bust in L1

Not to mention the rumours of impending sale that would scupper the Sisu strategy.

As ever last minute action .........
 
Grendel said:
Indeed. It's such strange and specific terminology to use.
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Are you happy to agree that you was wrong when you said it was Lucas that used the words now?
 
Astute said:
So are you saying that Lucas used the phrase first or was it a reply to Fisher?

No wonder I have you blocked.
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You haven't got me blocked as you are responding to me

Remind me how much was the offer for the Higgs share?
 
Grendel said:
You haven't got me blocked as you are responding to me

Remind me how much was the offer for the Higgs share?
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You like questions. Did SISU offer more than you or they thought it was worth solely because ACL was a charity? Did events prove you and Joy/ SISU both wrong?
 
Grendel said:
You haven't got me blocked as you are responding to me

Remind me how much was the offer for the Higgs share?
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You are blocked. I am clicking on see blocked messages. Otherwise I only see replies to the crap you come out with but not the crap you come out with.
 
Grendel said:
You haven't got me blocked as you are responding to me

Remind me how much was the offer for the Higgs share?
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Which offer?

Are you still saying that Lucas came out with the term unencumbered first?
 
martcov said:
You like questions. Did SISU offer more than you or they thought it was worth solely because ACL was a charity? Did events prove you and Joy/ SISU both wrong?
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He likes asking questions but not answering them.
 
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