The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (1 Viewer)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You are Labour 101%. That is very obvious.

I wasn't always but having lived in Scotland for nearly a decade and then entered education yes, pretty much. Doesn't mean I always will be though.

 

[clint van damme]

??? Not sure how you've worked out I'm a Tory lover...

not sure how you've come to the conclusion that that's what I was saying.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

She is the most racially abused MP in this country.

Which is indefensible. But she looks like an idiot an awful lot of the time, which is why I don't want her in the shadow cabinet, never mind shadow Home Secretary.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

not sure how you've come to the conclusion that that's what I was saying.

It seemed like you thought I let the Tories off or overlook their gaffes. Wires crossed maybe but I've been criticising them for the bulk of this thread

 

[Grendel]

She is the most racially abused MP in this country.

She herself is a racist

 

[Ian1779]

So you think Corbyn is a good thing for the Labour party?

Abbott wasn't exactly bullied. She was shown up to be clueless. There is a big difference.

Sounds like you would be happy if nobody said anything about what is wrong with the Labour party.

Yes I do think he is good for the Labour Party. And the primary reason is that him being there in that position facilitated the creation of that manifesto in 2017. That was what made me join the party.

Abbott is not up to a front bench job IMO. She has been called out on her numerical acumen. Other MP’s have made far bigger mathematical errors (Hammond, Johnson) and errors of competence on a far grander scale (like every Brexit secretary) yet they have never suffered the sustained abuse and vitriol that she has. And that is because she is a) Labour b) Female and c) Black. It’s a shameful indictment on the intolerance in our society.

There is plenty wrong with Labour. It’s been suffering an identity crisis since Blair was in charge. It’s going to take a lot longer until it is corrected, and inevitably those that saw it as a home under the Tory-lite regime may not want to stay in it.

 

[clint van damme]

It seemed like you thought I let the Tories off or overlook their gaffes. Wires crossed maybe but I've been criticising them for the bulk of this thread

I wasn't aiming my comments at you in particular, and I don't think Abbott is a good MP, (probably a good constituency MP but being in the cabinet/shadow cabinet is a different ball game).
But her gaffs get maximum exposure while the middle aged white men of the tory party seem to get a pass, I've drawn my conclusions.
If Fox doesn't deliver his fabled 40 trade deals the day after brexit, (or 39 now the Japanese deal isn't going to be ready), let's see how much stick he comes in for?

For a fuck up of that magnitude he should be fucking crucified.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I wasn't aiming my comments at you in particular, and I don't think Abbott is a good MP, (probably a good constituency MP but being in the cabinet/shadow cabinet is a different ball game).
But her gaffs get maximum exposure while the middle aged white men of the tory party seem to get a pass, I've drawn my conclusions.
If Fox doesn't deliver his fabled 40 trade deals the day after brexit, (or 39 now the Japanese deal isn't going to be ready), let's see how much stick he comes in for?

For a fuck up of that magnitude he should be fucking crucified.

First off she's a Labour politician which means the press are less forgiving of her mistakes. This is why I keep saying that the Tories can get away with being dog shit because they are treated with kid gloves by the media. The average Joe doesn't have much time to look beyond the 6 pm news or the front pages, and any who do tend to get seduced by posh accents and long words, so they get away with it on that level as well.

It's about style as much as anything. When Abbott messes up she stutters, she produces odd body language and looks flustered. Your typical Tory indulges in long winded waffle in a posh accent. Perception becomes reality.

 

[martcov]

Out by much more than 20b. Now they are trying to rip off owners of land and buildings to keep the amount down.

But on the other hand you have someone who is given numbers on what something will cost and you have someone who worked out that police officers get paid £200 A year.

We should have people who are good with financial matters in charge of financial matters. But in politics it is if your face fits. Or if you have previously shagged your boss.

Helps in my business sometimes;-)

 

[skybluetony176]

She herself is a racist

Go on then, I’ll ask.

How is Diane Abbott a racist?

 

[Nick]

Go on then, I’ll ask.

How is Diane Abbott a racist?

She is really a Nazi skin head

 

[Grendel]

Go on then, I’ll ask.

How is Diane Abbott a racist?

Would I be a racist if I only wanted a white nurse treat me in an NHS hospital?

 

[skybluetony176]

Would I be a racist if I only wanted a white nurse treat me in an NHS hospital?

I asked first. Why don’t you answer the question.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Would I be a racist if I only wanted a white nurse treat me in an NHS hospital?

Not quite what she said is it G, the question was ‘why aren’t we hiring local unemployed instead’. Is Labour racist or soft on immigration?

 

[skybluetony176]

Not quite what she said is it G, the question was ‘why aren’t we hiring local unemployed instead’. Is Labour racist or soft on immigration?

Yes.

 

[Grendel]

I asked first. Why don’t you answer the question.

I have

 

[Grendel]

Not quite what she said is it G, the question was ‘why aren’t we hiring local unemployed instead’. Is Labour racist or soft on immigration?

So if Jacob Rees mogg has said black nurses were unsuitable serving local white patients in a hospital as they’ve probably never touched one let alone understand their multi cultural needs you’d be ok with that?

Blimey

 

[Ian1779]

So if Jacob Rees mogg has said black nurses were unsuitable serving local white patients in a hospital as they’ve probably never touched one let alone understand their multi cultural needs you’d be ok with that?

Blimey

Jacob Rees Mogg was on TV last week justifying the use of concentration camps... perhaps you should take a look at your subject matter before you use it to make a point.

 

[Astute]

Abbott is not up to a front bench job IMO. She has been called out on her numerical acumen. Other MP’s have made far bigger mathematical errors (Hammond, Johnson) and errors of competence on a far grander scale (like every Brexit secretary) yet they have never suffered the sustained abuse and vitriol that she has. And that is because she is a) Labour b) Female and c) Black. It’s a shameful indictment on the intolerance in our society.

Did you just have a go at her because she is Labour, black or a woman?

Of course not. You had a go for the same reason as everyone else. But you are accusing others of being sexist or racist.

 

[Ian1779]

Did you just have a go at her because she is Labour, black or a woman?

Of course not. You had a go for the same reason as everyone else. But you are accusing others of being sexist or racist.

OK then....

Diane Abbott more abused than any other female MP during election

Diane Abbott reveals police collected racist and misogynistic letters from her office just yesterday

Video experience headlines - BBC News

 

[skybluetony176]

I have

No you haven’t. You’ve replied, I’ll give you that. But replying to a question with a question is not answering the question. It’s dodging the question.

 

[skybluetony176]

Jacob Rees Mogg was on TV last week justifying the use of concentration camps... perhaps you should take a look at your subject matter before you use it to make a point.

Leave Rees-Mogg alone. He can’t possibly be a racist. He holidays in Africa every year in the People’s Republic of Jam Jar.

 

[shmmeee]

Out by much more than 20b. Now they are trying to rip off owners of land and buildings to keep the amount down.

But on the other hand you have someone who is given numbers on what something will cost and you have someone who worked out that police officers get paid £200 A year.

We should have people who are good with financial matters in charge of financial matters. But in politics it is if your face fits. Or if you have previously shagged your boss.

Abbott made a flub like many others and was monstered because, let’s be honest, she’s an ugly fat bird with a funny accent.

She’s as racist as a lot of anti-racism campaigners (which is: a bit).

Angela Raynor gets me. Woman is shadow education secretary and thick as two short planks. Though vegetarians eat fish and can’t spell for toffee. I wouldn’t mind in another role, but education!

Thing is you can’t want both competence and radicalism. Radicals aren’t the ones tucking boxes and filling in paperwork. On either side.

It’s polished suits or radical change.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Go on then, I’ll ask.

How is Diane Abbott a racist?

Who cares ? I remember when she was a loony left maniac who used to stand up and rant in the house of commons. Then she reinvented herself: tried to sound posh and pretended to be a little more reflective. Now she's a total loon and demented. And she can't add up. It's come full circle.

 

[Grendel]

Jacob Rees Mogg was on TV last week justifying the use of concentration camps... perhaps you should take a look at your subject matter before you use it to make a point.

He wasn’t but never mind - and no doubt if Abbott was it would all be fine - mogg rightly got a huge round of applause for his point didn’t he? Whereas the sneering guardian columnist was rightly jeered and mocked.

 

[martcov]

He wasn’t but never mind - and no doubt if Abbott was it would all be fine - mogg rightly got a huge round of applause for his point didn’t he? Whereas the sneering guardian columnist was rightly jeered and mocked.

He got hefty critiques afterwards by people who actually knew the historical facts though. Judging people by the applause they get from their fans on TV is meaningless. He was playing to the crowd, good actor that he is. Implying that by inventing concentration camps we were doing people a favour is a mockery of those that died or suffered in them. He is a repulsive creature.

 

[Astute]

OK then....

Diane Abbott more abused than any other female MP during election

Diane Abbott reveals police collected racist and misogynistic letters from her office just yesterday

Video experience headlines - BBC News

Anyone can Google to get what they want.

Would you like to see the other side?

Abbott sorry for Twitter race row

Abbott denies attack on nurses was racist

Abbott’s alarming contempt for Brexit voters

There's more comments that she has made over the years. I am not saying that she is racist or has made racist comments. The problem I have is that if a white person would have said the same comments against a black person it would certainly be counted as racism. We can't have a two tier system where certain nationalities or where the descendents originated from are allowed to make comments that others are not allowed to make. It should be the same for everyone. After all we are all equal..... or you would hope we are.

 

[clint van damme]

Anyone can Google to get what they want.

Would you like to see the other side?

Abbott sorry for Twitter race row

Abbott denies attack on nurses was racist

Abbott’s alarming contempt for Brexit voters

There's more comments that she has made over the years. I am not saying that she is racist or has made racist comments. The problem I have is that if a white person would have said the same comments against a black person it would certainly be counted as racism. We can't have a two tier system where certain nationalities or where the descendents originated from are allowed to make comments that others are not allowed to make. It should be the same for everyone. After all we are all equal..... or you would hope we are.

just to be clear, her comments weren't aimed at white people, they were aimed at white people who she perceived had no experience of dealing with black people. To me it was a stupid comment, ill informed and still racist but it's a bit more nuanced than people are making out.

 

[clint van damme]

Yes I do think he is good for the Labour Party. And the primary reason is that him being there in that position facilitated the creation of that manifesto in 2017. That was what made me join the party.

Abbott is not up to a front bench job IMO. She has been called out on her numerical acumen. Other MP’s have made far bigger mathematical errors (Hammond, Johnson) and errors of competence on a far grander scale (like every Brexit secretary) yet they have never suffered the sustained abuse and vitriol that she has. And that is because she is a) Labour b) Female and c) Black. It’s a shameful indictment on the intolerance in our society.

There is plenty wrong with Labour. It’s been suffering an identity crisis since Blair was in charge. It’s going to take a lot longer until it is corrected, and inevitably those that saw it as a home under the Tory-lite regime may not want to stay in it.

looks like Jeremy Hunt read your post and was furious he didn't get a mention.

 

[skybluetony176]

He got hefty critiques afterwards by people who actually knew the historical facts though. Judging people by the applause they get from their fans on TV is meaningless. He was playing to the crowd, good actor that he is. Implying that by inventing concentration camps we were doing people a favour is a mockery of those that died or suffered in them. He is a repulsive creature.

It was shocking really. I’ve read up a little on them following the comment and the reason that they were there in the first place was not because we were helping them it was because we were operating a scorched earth policy and they had no where else to go. There is also several dozen confirmed cases of deliberate starvation of women and children being used as a punishment to the husbands/fathers of those in the camp to try and force them to surrender. It’s far from the proudest moment of British history and is a true measure of what a dangerous man Rees-Mogg is that he would manipulate this history for political gain and applause.

 

[Grendel]

He got hefty critiques afterwards by people who actually knew the historical facts though. Judging people by the applause they get from their fans on TV is meaningless. He was playing to the crowd, good actor that he is. Implying that by inventing concentration camps we were doing people a favour is a mockery of those that died or suffered in them. He is a repulsive creature.

Did you see the programme and the context? As for “historical facts” I assume you mean the “historian” whose actually an EU obsessive and got most of his facts off Wiki?

 

[skybluetony176]

Did you see the programme and the context? As for “historical facts” I assume you mean the “historian” whose actually an EU obsessive and got most of his facts off Wiki?

Context? From Rees-Mogg. Here’s a link of for photos through the period. Why don’t you look through them and see if you can apply Rees-Mogg’s “context” to any of them.

Haunting Photos Of History's First Concentration Camps, 40 Years Before The Holocaust

 

[Grendel]

Context? From Rees-Mogg. Here’s a link of for photos through the period. Why don’t you look through them and see if you can apply Rees-Mogg’s “context” to any of them.

Haunting Photos Of History's First Concentration Camps, 40 Years Before The Holocaust

Did you see the programme?

 

[skybluetony176]

Did you see the programme?

Every week without fail. Did you see the link? Clearly you didn’t because if you did the only comment you would have made is shame on Rees-Mogg. There really is no defending him when you compare what he said to facts.

 

[Astute]

just to be clear, her comments weren't aimed at white people, they were aimed at white people who she perceived had no experience of dealing with black people. To me it was a stupid comment, ill informed and still racist but it's a bit more nuanced than people are making out.

I don't disagree at all. But that is my point.

Someone who has made racist comments has had racist comments made against her. But when they are made against her they are massive. But in the real world none of them should be made.

She is a person with power. She isn't the normal everyday person on the street. I don't want to see or hear racist comments off anyone. And certainly not off anyone who should know better. People should understand the hurt caused. I detest anyone who does so.

And this is my problem with what is happening with the Labour party these days. There is so many things that are happening that shouldn't be. I am 100% Labour. I don't like what is happening. We are becoming unelectable. But what we do have is a list of people making excuses for what is happening. Just look at this thread for examples. A racist comment is a racist comment. A racist is a racist. Being black is no excuse for making racist comments just like being white is. We are all equal. They have no place in politics. I am Atheist. But I don't have a problem with religion. If you don't understand about a religion you shouldn't make comments on the matter.