Sky Blue Goblin
Sky Blue Hero
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Looks like Lati might be staying. Just seen Leicester going for another CB.
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We only have signed 1 loan. With Mudryk not happening why are we not loaning someone else from them?Im still surprised that with Lampard being a Chelsea legend and his stock with them, we've not signed any player in all the transfer windows we've had with him.
Surely he would of had some pull, and must be some players they have within our criteria
Genuinely don't get the surprise? He played for them, managed them sure. The most recent stint was by all accounts a disaster, and with the pace in which Chelsea recruit, there is barely any remaining connections. But the reality is, their players are on a financial level way higher than what we are operating at. The Mudryk Spurs deal details, if true, are mental. We were never going to be able to compete there and the funny thing with that deal is not only has he not played for 2 years, but he hardly set the world alight when he was playing!Im still surprised that with Lampard being a Chelsea legend and his stock with them, we've not signed any player in all the transfer windows we've had with him.
Surely he would of had some pull, and must be some players they have within our criteria
He probably has but he can't fund the £100,000 they are on a week out of his own pocketIm still surprised that with Lampard being a Chelsea legend and his stock with them, we've not signed any player in all the transfer windows we've had with him.
Surely he would of had some pull, and must be some players they have within our criteria
Im still surprised that with Lampard being a Chelsea legend and his stock with them, we've not signed any player in all the transfer windows we've had with him.
Surely he would of had some pull, and must be some players they have within our criteria
I dont believe theres a second theres not a playercurrently in their system who is attainable to us on loan financially who would improve usGenuinely don't get the surprise? He played for them, managed them sure. The most recent stint was by all accounts a disaster, and with the pace in which Chelsea recruit, there is barely any remaining connections. But the reality is, their players are on a financial level way higher than what we are operating at. The Mudryk Spurs deal details, if true, are mental. We were never going to be able to compete there and the funny thing with that deal is not only has he not played for 2 years, but he hardly set the world alight when he was playing!
Im still surprised that with Lampard being a Chelsea legend and his stock with them, we've not signed any player in all the transfer windows we've had with him.
Surely he would of had some pull, and must be some players they have within our criteria
Does Mfuni improve us?I dont believe theres a second theres not a playercurrently in their system who is attainable to us on loan financially who would improve us
How is that thelevel we are at?Does Mfuni improve us?
Because that is the level we are at with the available players at those clubs. He has played 9 first team games last season in Champ.
You imagine the only thing putting us off loans are the loan fees and wagesWe only have signed 1 loan. With Mudryk not happening why are we not loaning someone else from them?
any indication he wants to sign for us?Andrich loan with an option or obligation if we stay up would be perfect for us. Nearly 200 Bundesliga games
And that’s the noise of a nail being very firmly hit on the head.It’s pretty obvious this season is going to be rather challenging for a lot of supporters
I never thought for one minute we are likely to survive - there’s always a possibility - but this nonsense we can just spend to survive is for the birds.
We have clubs spending £50 million on a striker who’s scored 2 goals in the premier league.
I’d say to be relatively secure on survival )and even then we might not be) we’d have to spend around £700 million and increase our wage bill by 500%.
Given the underwhelming probability the club will be relegated (and I’m sure that’s been discussed as the likely option and how to plan for it) then you adopt a transfer strategy as we’ve done in the main to try and get players who will become progressive players and rapidly escalate value.
It’s a season of watching big name players with the odd surprise positive result. You have to prepare for statistical probabilities in any business.
I am not privvy to what a loan fee would be, but surely not more than a couple of million?You imagine the only thing putting us off loans are the loan fees and wages
Yeah I mentiond him before.Andrich loan with an option or obligation if we stay up would be perfect for us. Nearly 200 Bundesliga games
no one said thatI can’t really believe that some posters thought we could spend enough to guarantee not being in a relegation fight. It really is naive to think we could do anything like that. Some of our players arent PL standard. But I think we’ve recruited well based on our limits.
The clubs of our size who've made Europe nearly all had a relegation or 2 back to the Championship to go through before they established themselves and got Europe. Maybe that's something we'll have to go through?
For a long time I never thought I'dsee us in the PL again. I turn 60 next year, but if we go down Im convinced, (as long as I live out my natural!) this season won't be the last time I do.
Though hopefully we stay up obviously.
None but he's been removed as captain and told he will play a bit part this season. So opportunity there i'm sureany indication he wants to sign for us?
Parachute payments should give you a huge advantage these days but i'm way too damaged by this club to think we'll make easy work of it.You’ve got a lot more faith than I have that well bounce straight back. I’ve still got PTSD from the Prem and Champ relegations when everyone said we’d come back stronger.
Hull’s game plan was the same all day, the goal that they scored was from a perfect opportunity where we lose the ball with everyone forward.I don't think you can even say that it was purely down to Yirenkyi going off, Rudoni went off at the same time too, and it looked like a tactical tweak with the positions Hamer and Torp were picking up they were both a lot higher than Yirenkyi.
If anything the main reason they started to grow into the game was that Awoniya was spent and BTA kept giving the ball away every time he had it, and the ball stopped sticking, they just hit us on transition.
Correct! They received around £25m for Jobe Bellingham which immediately gave them a base spend of £145m.It’s amazing how people talk about Sunderlands spend but totally ignore the fact they're a bigger club with more matchday revenue and the big wad of cash they took in from player sales.
Our big problem is that we are already well over the 25 man squad limit so would need to get rid of quite a few including Kitching, Dovin, Raphael etc before we can even consider any incomings. Judging by the fact we've struggled to get rid of them all summer I really don't see us shipping out the 4/5 in less than 11 hours left now.None but he's been removed as captain and told he will play a bit part this season. So opportunity there i'm sure
| Initially relegated | Club | Seasons down | Returned | PL spell after return | 3+ years? |
| 1992–93 | Middlesbrough | 2 | 1995–96 | 2 seasons | |
| 1994–95 | Crystal Palace | 2 | 1997–98 | 1 | |
| 1994–95 | Leicester | 1 | 1996–97 | 6 | |
| 1995–96 | Bolton | 1 | 1997–98 | 1 | |
| 1996–97 | Sunderland | 2 | 1999–00 | 4 | |
| 1998–99 | Charlton | 1 | 2000–01 | 7 | |
| 2000–01 | Manchester City | 1 | 2002–03 | 25+ | |
| 2002–03 | West Brom | 1 | 2004–05 | 2 | |
| 2005–06 | Sunderland | 1 | 2007–08 | 10 | |
| 2007–08 | Birmingham | 1 | 2009–10 | 2 | |
| 2008–09 | West Brom | 1 | 2010–11 | 8 | |
| 2014–15 | Burnley | 1 | 2016–17 | 6 | |
| 2018–19 | Fulham | 1 | 2020–21 | 1 | |
| 2019–20 | Norwich | 1 | 2021–22 | 1 | |
| 2020–21 | Fulham | 1 | 2022–23 | 5th season rn | |
| 2023–24 | Burnley | 1 | 2025–26 | 1 | |
| 2024–25 | Ipswich | 1 | 2026–27 | ongoing |
You're one sad little manOK some slop for you all, tbh doesn’t fill me with confidence in the yoyo strategy but ymmv:
Yep. I reconstructed every promoted cohort and followed the clubs that were relegated immediately, then tracked their next two second-tier seasons and the length of any subsequent Premier League spell. The Premier League season table gives the promotion/relegation history back to 1992–93; for the early years I’m treating the old First Division as the Championship-equivalent—the second tier was renamed the Championship in 2004.
The headline
Across the entire Premier League era, 1992–93 through 2025–26:
- 47 promoted sides were relegated immediately, across 27 different clubs.
- For 45 of those cases, the full two-season return window is now known.
- 17/45 came back within one or two seasons: 37.8%.
- 14 bounced back after one Championship season.
- 3 took two Championship seasons.
- Of those quick-return cases whose subsequent fate is known, 8/16 then managed at least three consecutive Premier League seasons: exactly 50%.
- Ipswich are the 17th quick return, but their 2026–27 spell has only just begun, so they’re TBD on the 3-year test. The Premier League confirms their immediate 2026 return.
So, crudely:
If you’re promoted, immediately relegated, there’s about a 38% historical chance of being back within two years. If you do come back that quickly, it’s basically a coin flip whether the second attempt turns into a 3+ year PL spell.
Or combining those stages: 8/45 ≈ 18% of resolved immediate-relegation cases managed the whole down → quick return → establish for 3+ years trick.
The 17 quick return cases
Initially relegated Club Seasons down Returned PL spell after return 3+ years? 1992–93 Middlesbrough 2 1995–96 2 seasons 1994–95 Crystal Palace 2 1997–98 1 1994–95 Leicester 1 1996–97 6 1995–96 Bolton 1 1997–98 1 1996–97 Sunderland 2 1999–00 4 1998–99 Charlton 1 2000–01 7 2000–01 Manchester City 1 2002–03 25+ 2002–03 West Brom 1 2004–05 2 2005–06 Sunderland 1 2007–08 10 2007–08 Birmingham 1 2009–10 2 2008–09 West Brom 1 2010–11 8 2014–15 Burnley 1 2016–17 6 2018–19 Fulham 1 2020–21 1 2019–20 Norwich 1 2021–22 1 2020–21 Fulham 1 2022–23 5th season rn 2023–24 Burnley 1 2025–26 1 2024–25 Ipswich 1 2026–27 ongoing
Those sequences come directly from cross-matching the season-by-season promoted/relegated lists.
There are two censored cases I haven’t sneakily counted as failures:
- Southampton, relegated immediately in 2024–25: didn’t return after one season, but could still earn promotion during 2026–27 and therefore satisfy the “within two seasons” condition.
- Burnley, relegated immediately again in 2025–26: they’re only in their first season back down. The Premier League confirms that 2025–26 relegation.
If you literally mean only the
Championship-branded
era
Since promotion from the division called the Championship began in 2004–05, the figures are slightly harsher:
29 immediate relegations.
Of the 27 where we currently know whether they returned inside two seasons:
9 returned = 33.3%.
Interestingly, all nine did it after just one Championship season; none so far went down, spent exactly two years there, then came back. Two current cases are still capable of altering that.
And among the nine quick-returners:
Established 3+ years: Sunderland, West Brom, Burnley, Fulham
Relegated again within two seasons: Birmingham, Fulham’s earlier return, Norwich, Burnley
Ipswich: TBD
So again it’s 4 successes vs 4 failures, with Ipswich unresolved.
What I think is the interesting bit
This actually gives some empirical support to the yo-yo club strategy.
Getting battered in your first PL season isn’t necessarily evidence that the promotion was a dead end. Once you’ve built enough institutional/financial strength to bounce straight back, your odds on the next attempt appear dramatically better.
The historical sequence is basically:
Immediate relegation → ~38% quick return → ~50% of those establish → ~18% overall successful reset.
And the successful examples aren’t all Man City-shaped aberrations. Burnley, West Brom, Sunderland, Charlton and Fulham all used a quick return to turn themselves into multi-season Premier League clubs.
For Ipswich specifically, their current trajectory—promotion → immediate relegation → immediate promotion—is therefore a path that has produced a genuinely durable PL club about half the time historically. That’s quite a bit more encouraging than merely asking “how often do promoted teams survive first time?”
That’s a myth I’m afraid. Favours arent done when you’re in the prem and more widely it’s all about cash.Im still surprised that with Lampard being a Chelsea legend and his stock with them, we've not signed any player in all the transfer windows we've had with him.
Surely he would of had some pull, and must be some players they have within our criteria
Im not fussed about going down as lets be honest that was a nailed on probability before the window even opened. What I want is to not be humiliated and put us on good footing to return in 28.
The reason I am in team glass half empty is because we have spent 120M on new players yet have glaring gaps in the squad with players who shouldn't be near a top half championship team let alone the PL. And that's not to disparage them because they have worked wonders for us - but the prospect of Bidwell, Lati, BTA etc having rings ran around them every week is pretty sad tbh.
Its mostly the gaps im concerned with, as I think the business we have actually done is decent, although I do fear we have overpaid for a few of them.
King always wings it with huge gaps in the squad which Lampard has performed miracles to overcome. We wont get away with it at this level and this will come back to bite him.
Not sure about the finance stats. The clear fact is they bought a load of players relatively cheap who fitted into the style of play for the Prem. Money can't buy foresight .....Hull’s game plan was the same all day, the goal that they scored was from a perfect opportunity where we lose the ball with everyone forward.
Correct! They received around £25m for Jobe Bellingham which immediately gave them a base spend of £145m.
Plus a stadium of 49k with sold out season tickets and presumably a much more robust commercial operation.
We might not need to do it in 2-3 attempts.
Oh don’t be ridiculous. If there wasn’t an expectation of us doing anything better than a relegation fight why do we have endless critical nonsense across so many threads.no one said that
So no idea if he is even a realistic target then, okay.None but he's been removed as captain and told he will play a bit part this season. So opportunity there i'm sure
Most expected us to be in a relegation dogfight, but expected us to have covered a few holes in the squad better.Oh don’t be ridiculous. If there wasn’t an expectation of us doing anything better than a relegation fight why do we have endless critical nonsense across so many threads.
I don’t think many have judged how mad the market isRemember many thought wed spend less than 70/80 mill
I remember the championship on tour tshirts....You’ve got a lot more faith than I have that well bounce straight back. I’ve still got PTSD from the Prem and Champ relegations when everyone said we’d come back stronger.