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Ring Of Steel

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How many times should he have shot him?
lol, stop with the whataboutery. You tell me, you're squirming & you're the one with the bloodlust here, tell me- when he'd been shot in the spine and paralysed- do you agree they were justified to keep shooting?
 

Evo1883

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May 25, 2013
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lol, stop with the whataboutery. You tell me, you're squirming & you're the one with the bloodlust here, tell me- when he'd been shot in the spine and paralysed- do you agree they were justified to keep shooting?
I'm not squirming whatsoever, you say 7 is too many how many times should that officer in that incident have shot the suspect if he feared his life was in danger... You tell me because 7 is too many so what's acceptable

How would an officer in this incident know that the person was paralysed, he had several seconds between start and finish

Obviously the expert in situations like this please afford me your expertise
 
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skybluetony176

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I'm not squirming whatsoever, you say 7 is too many how many times should that officer in that incident have shot the suspect if he feared his life was in danger... You tell me because 7 is too many so what's acceptable

Obviously the expert in situations like this please afford me your expertise
Once, in the leg. Doubtful it needed more than that. Unless he was intending on killing him.
 
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Evo1883

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Once, in the leg. Doubtful it needed more than that. Unless he was intending on killing him.
That simple right? Come on now that's almost too perfect a situation to imagine... It's not a movie

You can be shot in the leg and still be a lethal threat, often adrenaline can take over and you won't even feel the gunshot to the leg initially
 

Ring Of Steel

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May 22, 2017
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I'm not squirming whatsoever, you say 7 is too many how many times should that officer in that incident have shot the suspect if he feared his life wa sin danger... You tell me because 7 is too many so what's acceptable
Yes you are. You are refusing to say what everyone knows is true, that 7 times is too much. He was shot in the spine, instantly paralysed & incapacitated, but they kept shooting, even when the guy was completely immobilised. There is no way anyones life was in danger after that. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. But because you're one of these weird people that seems to love all this Rambo-type stuff, you're coming out with increasingly strange justifications, and then to top it all off it seems to be the fault of the "mainstream media".

You are making things up. If you've just shot someone in the spine, you do not fear your life is in danger unless you're clearly not fit to be doing the job. Nobody has said that the officer was "in fear of his life", you have said it.

I'll try one more time- do you think that 7 shots in the back was justified?
 

Evo1883

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Yes you are. You are refusing to say what everyone knows is true, that 7 times is too much. He was shot in the spine, instantly paralysed & incapacitated, but they kept shooting, even when the guy was completely immobilised. There is no way anyones' life was in danger after that. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. But because you're one of these weird people that seems to love all this Rambo-type stuff, you're coming out with increasingly strange justifications, and then to top it all off it seems to be the fault of the "mainstream media".

You are making things up. If you've just shot someone in the spine, you do not fear your life is in danger unless you're clearly not fit to be doing the job. Nobody has said that the officer was "in fear of his life", you have said it.

I'll try one more time- do you think that 7 shots in the back was justified?

You've probably never been in any situation that requires a split second decision to decide what is the correct thing to do... Youre also implying that the officer will have known upon shooting his victim was paralysed from a single bullet, in the case of firing several bullets in several seconds you have no time at all to come to the conclusions you are trying to say he should have.

I've worked in Iraq and afghan with the military, had to make a split second decision whether to shoot a person in a crowded market place whilst on top cover, on several occasions had to engage in situations where it is literally life or death, I worked in security back in Iraq after leaving the military, you are talking as though you have a clue what you would feel like in a situation like this... When you do not... Just stop
 

Ring Of Steel

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You've probably never been in any situation that requires a split second decision to decide what is the correct thing to do... Youre also implying that the officer will have known upon shooting his victim was paralysed from a single bullet, in the case of firing several bullets in several seconds you have no time at all to come to the conclusions you are trying to say he should have.

I've worked in Iraq with the military, had to make a split second decision whether to shoot a person in a crowded market place whilst on top cover, on several occasions had to engage in situations where it is literally life or death, I worked in security back in Iraq after leaving the military, you are talking as though you have a clue what you would feel like in a situation like this... When you do not... Just stop
Your own words: " Completely incomparible though when you Compare cultures "

Your experiences in Iraq have no relevance here at all.
 

Evo1883

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Your own words: " Completely incomparible though when you Compare cultures "

Your experiences in Iraq have no relevance here at all.
Actually, it does, deciding whether to shoot somebody within the law within a split second is exactly comparable
 

chiefdave

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Sep 27, 2008
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I'm not squirming whatsoever, you say 7 is too many how many times should that officer in that incident have shot the suspect if he feared his life was in danger... You tell me because 7 is too many so what's acceptable
But you're analysing one incident in as much detail as possible, seemingly to justify the actions of the police, when this is happening on a regular basis.

How many times should Tamir Rice have been shot? Why no bullets for Kyle Rittenhouse, Patrick Crusius or Dylann Roof?
 
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Evo1883

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But you're analysing one incident in as much detail as possible, seemingly to justify the actions of the police, when this is happening on a regular basis.

How many times should Tamir Rice have been shot? Why no bullets for Kyle Rittenhouse, Patrick Crusius or Dylann Roof?
There has been no bullets for many black or ethnic shooters too in America though?

You say I'm analysing one incident in as much detail as possible, all in the space of an hour or so of debating it on the internet... The copper had several seconds to do just that in the end...


I'm not saying all victims are deserving I'm saying not all incidents are wrongful, and the police are finding themselves in a situation where every time they are judged to be wrong... Which is not the case
 

Ring Of Steel

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Actually, it does, deciding whether to shoot somebody within the law within a split second is exactly comparable
So actually you do agree with NW's point that in the UK we manage to do it in general without pumping people full of lead. You're beginning to contradict yourself now I'm afraid.
 

Evo1883

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So actually you do agree with NW's point that in the UK we manage to do it in general without pumping people full of lead. You're beginning to contradict yourself now I'm afraid.
No contradiction here I'm afraid, you're assuming 1 incident was the only incident, but I was illustrating how quick mentally you have to be to make a decision... Something you have no idea about

Like in America, not every suspect ends up dead
 

Ring Of Steel

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No contradiction here I'm afraid, you're assuming 1 incident was the only incident, but I was illustrating how quick mentally you have to be to make a decision... Something you have no idea about

Like in America, not every suspect ends up dead
And even now, you steadfastly refuse to say whether you feel that- knowing what you do about this incident- 7 shots to the back was too much.
 

Evo1883

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So actually you do agree with NW's point that in the UK we manage to do it in general without pumping people full of lead. You're beginning to contradict yourself now I'm afraid.
Also, in the uk most people don't legally carry guns
And even now, you steadfastly refuse to say whether you feel that- knowing what you do about this incident- 7 shots to the back was too much.
If his life was in danger... 7 shots is not too many... If his life wasn't in danger 7 shots is too many.

Obviously they will have an investigation and will decide what is right and wrong.

All in all if the officer acted within his rights and the law... He will be fine, if not he will be charged with the crime
 

Evo1883

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Is my last post enough to end this rather long debate this morning/afternoon, are we in agreement Steel
 

Evo1883

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For the record, banning guns is the best thing that could ever happen to the states, but trying to take people's guns could very well lead to a civil war over there... It's that much a hot issue that I don't believe they will ever be able to ban guns peacefully
 
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skybluetony176

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That simple right? Come on now that's almost too perfect a situation to imagine... It's not a movie

You can be shot in the leg and still be a lethal threat, often adrenaline can take over and you won't even feel the gunshot to the leg initially
I think you’ve been watching too many films thinking that they’re documentaries.
One in the leg and if he keeps coming at you or running away shoot again.
 

Evo1883

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I think you’ve been watching too many films thinking that they’re documentaries.
One in the leg and if he keeps coming at you or running away shoot again.
Ok, we will have to agree to disagree... Good chatting
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

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The footage shows that the police followed him around the front of his car. He then goes to open his door and for a moment is almost facing the officers.

I would have thought that if there was any shooting to be done it would have been at this point. This is the point at which I think the police were in danger, when Blake is turning towards them.

The officer then runs around the back of him and shoots him. Its just as if he wanted to shoot him in the back. Its clearly shoot to kill.
The only circumstances I would have expected the police to open up like that would have been if the bloke had a bomb strapped to him and had been tracked as on his way to commit mass murder.
 

Evo1883

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The footage shows that the police followed him around the front of his car. He then goes to open his door and for a moment is almost facing the officers.

I would have thought that if there was any shooting to be done it would have been at this point. This is the point at which I think the police were in danger, when Blake is turning towards them.

The officer then runs around the back of him and shoots him. Its just as if he wanted to shoot him in the back. Its clearly shoot to kill.
The only circumstances I would have expected the police to open up like that would have been if the bloke had a bomb strapped to him and had been tracked as on his way to commit mass murder.
This isn't accurate

The officer follows him around the car, tries to pull his shirt back as he opens the door and shoots as he leans in the vehicle
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Once, in the leg. Doubtful it needed more than that. Unless he was intending on killing him.
Dunno if anyone else can confirm but I did hear shooting in the leg can actually be a very bad thing to do because it's quite easy to catch major arteries and veins. Plus of course if you're shooting because you're in danger it's unlikely that threat will be coming from the lower half of the body and even if you hit them they still pose a threat with their hands if they're carrying a weapon or have explosives etc. Plus it's much harder to be accurate compared to aiming for the torso (not in this case given the range).

I do feel in America these are used as excuses far too often when the question should be whether shooting was necessary at all. It should be only used in extreme circumstances where your life is in danger but it seems to be the go-to method regardless, even just to bring down a suspect running away. I think that's a completely unacceptable and unnecessary response.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Yes you are. You are refusing to say what everyone knows is true, that 7 times is too much. He was shot in the spine, instantly paralysed & incapacitated, but they kept shooting, even when the guy was completely immobilised. There is no way anyones life was in danger after that. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. But because you're one of these weird people that seems to love all this Rambo-type stuff, you're coming out with increasingly strange justifications, and then to top it all off it seems to be the fault of the "mainstream media".

You are making things up. If you've just shot someone in the spine, you do not fear your life is in danger unless you're clearly not fit to be doing the job. Nobody has said that the officer was "in fear of his life", you have said it.

I'll try one more time- do you think that 7 shots in the back was justified?
Do we know which shot actually paralysed him? As far as we know it could've been the first or the seventh.

I'm still of the opinion 7 is far too many and the officer wasn't well enough trained to have access to a firearm if they'll just fire off a load of shots in succession.
 

dubed

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This isn't accurate

The officer follows him around the car, tries to pull his shirt back as he opens the door and shoots as he leans in the vehicle
TBH, I think adm's post was really just a summary of this. Either way, the point remains that, on the face of things. of all the recent incidents of this kind this is the least defensible. The US has a big race issue - it seems like 50 years behind Northern European countries.
 

Evo1883

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May 25, 2013
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TBH, I think adm's post was really just a summary of this. Either way, the point remains that, on the face of things. of all the recent incidents of this kind this is the least defensible. The US has a big race issue - it seems like 50 years behind Northern European countries.
I agree with your statement at the bottom
 

David O'Day

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TBH, I think adm's post was really just a summary of this. Either way, the point remains that, on the face of things. of all the recent incidents of this kind this is the least defensible. The US has a big race issue - it seems like 50 years behind Northern European countries.
For once ADM is right
 

RegTheDonk

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There must be a better way of dealing with things like this, our lot use restraints, cs spray and tazers if trained. I get guns are more readily available in the US but their cops seem very trigger happy.

OK, looking at the history of the bloke, the fact he's not doing as told, and they reckon he was going for a weapon, they reacted. Over reaction - perhaps, but yet again do as you're told. If some copper pointed a gun at me, i wouldn't just do as i was told, I'd shit myself in the process, what's wrong with these people?

Is this a racist incident though? Had they shot some white trash with a mile long rap sheet, in the exact same circumstances, would people be rioting or just shrug and turn to page two. The bloke would still be a human being where (to us watching to video) excessive force seems to have been used.

------------------------------------------------------


Back to blighty with that other link - clear case of racist coppers stopping the black driver.

Or perhaps - police inspector was going a bit fast, realises he's in the poo. "These were alleged offences that could have ended my whole career". So plays his face, pulls his badge and then puts in a complaint.

Its investigated, no wrong doing found.

Now, probably with other influences over his shoulder saying you can't leave it there, he decides to follow through and go to court.

Is he having to keep up the image, or does he have a genuine case?

"In my view it's not the whole organisation that's like that, it's only a few individuals that are causing this issue". Thats the only bit of that report I 100% believe, from either viewpoint.

Should be interesting how it pans out - somebody is at best not reading a speedo correctly, at worst lying, and even worse targetting black people unlawfully ..... either way, cops in the wrong and David gets a result lol.
 

Sky Blue Pete

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I think it does look as if he’s going for a weapon but after one shot I think you’ve done what you need. 7 ffs
 

shmmeee

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You don't believe the media have any influence over what people think about trump?
He used to be celebrated about many things before he took office, by the very people who now spew the hate... The media are dangerous
No one celebrates Trump. He’s been a laughing stock his entire “career”. He’s a meme filled TV businessman like Alan Sugar here, not an actual businessman.
 

Evo1883

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No one celebrates Trump. He’s been a laughing stock his entire “career”. He’s a meme filled TV businessman like Alan Sugar here, not an actual businessman.
Alan sugar though clearly losing his marbles, has had a great career... He sold his business amstrad to sky a few years back for 125 million, plus made loads from property in landan... Pretty successful really isn't it
 

shmmeee

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Alan sugar though clearly losing his marbles, has had a great career... He sold his business amstrad to sky a few years back for 125 million, plus made loads from property in landan... Pretty successful really isn't it
He did well with Amstrad and since then has been generic rich guy with a cockerney manner. Same as Trump did well by being born, then was generic 80s rich guy. Their brand was always bigger than their business nous, you wouldn’t find them advising Fortune 500 companies.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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He did well with Amstrad and since then has been generic rich guy with a cockerney manner. Same as Trump did well by being born, then was generic 80s rich guy. Their brand was always bigger than their business nous, you wouldn’t find them advising Fortune 500 companies.
But you will at some point in time seen Sugar advising the government on business. Oh, and Phillip Green. So greedy narcissists seem to be the desired outcome for UK business.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

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I think it does look as if he’s going for a weapon but after one shot I think you’ve done what you need. 7 ffs
It is difficult to say for sure, but it does look like he reaches down into the drivers door for something. The problem is, and I've said this before, a lot of people do not understand the situation in America with guns. The police get shot at all the time and so I have no doubt in my mind here they were shooting to kill to extinguish any threat. They intended to take the threat down. No one can say he wasn't a threat either, there is clearly an argument to suggest he was at that point.

Had he dropped to the floor after one shot, I would imagine they wouldn't have kept shooting. As he was still seemingly on his feet and (perhaps) reaching for something, they kept on firing.

At the moment, no one knows what happened before hand, and no one knows the context of why he went to the vehicle, or what might have been in there. People just shout racist. If it was a white guy this wouldn't be making the news. There is a clear agenda getting in the way of facts and it is setting race relations back ten fold.
 
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