Greggs
Well-Known Member
Rich people problems
Fuel prices (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
OK G, let’s come back in five years and see where we are. If you don’t think EV sales will grow exponentially over the next 8 years there’s nothing I can say to convince you. But you are very much against all expert opinion out there.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
And they all drive 300 miles a day?
Greggs
Well-Known Member
Where does someone who lives in a block of flats charge their middle class car?
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Again, somebody needs to pay for the infrastructure. shmmeee seems to be labouring under the assumption I'm a luddite, whereas what I actually want is someone assist those unable to afford it, or accept it won't happen as quickly as hoped...
And if it'll happen anyway, then we don't need congestion charges, scrappage schemes and the like, and natural obsolescnce will do the trick regardless... and we'd be better off focussing on improving public transport than wringing our hands about a congestion charge that serves no real purpose.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
It's a 2013 1.6 Skoda with 70,000 miles on it. I'm guessing you're taking the piss with the maestro remark.
Tell me why scrapping my perfectly good petrol engined car and buying an electric will be better for me and the environment over the next 10 years ? Do you know the environmental cost of scrappage ?
Sell it to me and I'll consider scrapping my current car.
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fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
There is an electric car on a street of terraced / semi detached houses near me, they run a cable across the pavement!
Greggs
Well-Known Member
Convenient.......
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
Apparently this is commonplace now to the extent that some local authorities will , for a fee, channel out a cable run and install ducting from your boundary to the road.
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
If you don't like them, just park in the spaces nearest their home before they get back themselves...?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Congestion charges are generally in a response to air quality issues, not climate change. We haven’t had a scrappage scheme for years and the grant stopped this year because it’s not seen as needed due to sales picking up. So, yeah you’re right.
Focus on government spending in this area has shifted to charging infrastructure. I’m still not sure what help you want other than that? Every new building will have charging, workplaces and retail hotspots will have charging, service stations will have charging, and there’ll be public chargers, and the cost will plummet anyway so you’re talking about less of an investment than a new phone. The number of people left affected will be tiny.
I dont think you’re a Luddite, I think you don’t appreciate that the state of the market today won’t be the state of the market in 18 years.
I would like a shift to more personal mobility and public transport because it think it’s a good thing in its own right for a host of reasons. But behaviour shift isn’t a practical solution for climate change generally.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Doesn't help if you don't live in a new building!
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Can you please clarify who TF this hypothetical person is, who makes up a majority of the population, lives in a flat, doesn’t have work parking, never goes to the shops, doesn’t live near enough people for public charging to be built nearby in the next 17 years and is too poor to spend a few hundred quid more on a car but not so poor they can continue to run an increasingly more expensive car?
And all this is assuming we don’t crack self driving in the next couple of decades to a level where car ownership is still even a thing.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Have you been the victim of an accident involving tripping on an eletric charging point cable......... only a matter of time.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Hang on, so now you're saying you have to go shopping daily to charge your car?!?
It's not a few hundred quid more, and it won't be unless action is taken to subsidise. You bang on about costs, but it's making some massive assumptions, yet the same assumptions aren't made wrt synthetic fuels becoming cheaper, and being able to be produced from carbon neutral sources. You also continually say about running an increasingly more expensive car - that's what just about everybody who runs a secondhand car does now, because they can't afford to run a cheaper car. There is a reality where people have to spend more over a longer period because their ability to do otherwise is denied them.
Anyway, this is overly circular, so I'm out, although it does also assume that electric *is* the way forward. Toyota for one don't think so...
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I honestly think it would be a massive challenge. The amount of work needed to install the infrastructure in my street would be incredible.
My workplace would be a better bet and the company is quite progressive regarding climate initiatives.
I wouldn't bother driving to work at all if there were cycle lanes but I'm not putting my life at risk on the roads.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Workplaces can be progressive, but we have a conscious decision to not have as many parking places as there are employees, to encourage walking / public transport / car sharing / wfh. That's fine but, if people can't charge their cars at home so come into work to do that, it kind of defeats the purpose somewhat. And that is what would happen!
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
The parking space issue apllies to residential builds as well. There's issues around parking a the development being built at the back of Spon End for example.
Where do these people park their cars let alone charge them?
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
At which point we're back to the need to invest to support people, or we risk creating a cattle class.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Two thirds of households have off-road parking. If you’re not going to work each day, you probably don’t need to charge your car each night and can just do it once a week at the weekend.
Also totally forgot but portable chargers are a thing now, so you could charge at home and bring it out to your car.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I don't believe that stat regarding off road parking for one minute.
Portable charging seems to me to be the only way to make this work.
Nick
Administrator
Two thirds of households where?
If people are affording electric cars they will need a job.
I'm still not sure what world people live in.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
As stated several times: the world of 2040 where petrol cats have been banned for 10 years, and electric cars are significantly cheaper to produce anyway, and also where we probably have much less reliance on expensive and volatile fuel sources for the electricity, so the fuel differential is even bigger
On off road parking: your view is skewed because you live in a city, where it’s more like 40%, but in huge parts of the country it’s as low as 1/6: A third of UK homeowners don’t have a driveway or garage to
But if you live in a city you’re less likely to drive long distances daily and more likely to benefit from investment in other transport types anyway.
The point is that once you hit a certain tipping point then the whole industry will shift around electric and owning an ICE car will be worth less and less, while providing for everyone’s needs will be more profitable. Of course charging companies aren’t setting up charge points in Foleshill terraced side streets now, that’s not where the car owners are, but once that shifts they will.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I don't think there's anywhere near 2/3rds off road parking in Earlsdon or Chapel fields or Allssley and there aren't many their either.
The only road I can think of which has some is Spencer Ave and there's not many. I appreciate its early days but even with a program of building, if you can't find a parking space half the time how can you be sure of finding a charging point?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I think personally it’s a stop gap until we get auto taxis on demand and drop car ownership entirely for much better shared services, which could be any time in the next twenty years, or could be never. But I’m a massive techno-optimist.
I agree portable chargers will be the best solution and I’d expect people to start having them as standard anyway (perhaps a hookup to the house in case of emergency?), but I honestly think the number of affected people will be a lot less than some are thinking.
I wouldn’t be surprised at first to see people trailing a cable out of their window, maybe with some device to keep the cable high up. When I lived in a terraced street while I couldn’t park in front of my house every night, I could usually manage once or twice a week. Hell towards the end of my marriage I’d have gone to charge the car somewhere just for a couple of hours peace.
People will find a way.
RegTheDonk
Well-Known Member
You laugh but kids getting on the housing ladder by the time everyone is forced to drive electric cars and there may well be the need for quad chargers.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Even if it is 2/3, 1/3 being disenfranchised is not great.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
This is all assuming no improvement in charging tech as well, there’s prototype fast charging batteries at six minutes for a full charge, which makes petrol station style charging possible. The current Tesla supercharger can add 200 miles of range in 15 minutes. We’re already down from “long meal” to “coffee and a shit” timescales.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You still missing the basic point as to who sells cars and the fact prices won’t reduce
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Tesla the third worst car brand in JD Power surveys and declining fast
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Especially when areas with higher indices of deprivation will be in that one-third. We're creating a two-tier society here and potentially pushing people into poverty by forcing them to buy cars for which there is no cheap alternative.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
Yes. Even better, people who live on the first floor or higher in an inner city block of flats could have an extendable cable they could throw off their balcony down to the battalion of charging points at the base of their block.
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jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Keeping in mind that people will rob fucking anything thats not nailed down, I can't really see a future where the pavements of terrace streets are full of neatly aligned portable chargers......
...I can however foresee a shitload of legal claims for people tripping over the cables....
...I can however foresee a shitload of legal claims for people tripping over the cables....
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
No chance. A neat regiment of grilles/ acos every 12 feet across every footpath in towns and cities across the country which fill up with water, leaves and any other matter the householder has to clear out once a week. Brilliant.
Marty
Well-Known Member
Coundon got a whole fleet of charging points installed within the last 2 years or so. Most houses in Chapelfields and Earlsdon are lucky if they have any more then a couple of foot for a front garden, so the council will literally have to install a point outside every house. I just can't see it happening. People will be priced out from driving.
