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Forest (2 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Sky Blue Pete
  • Start date Jul 28, 2021
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Frank Sidebottom

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #141
Silly me clicking on a thread titled Forest assuming it would contain chat/debate about our upcoming opponents. Who needs that when I can read an argument about whether or not Bright was MOTM against Man City in the Carabao Cup 4 years ago.
 
Reactions: Longford, AStonesThrow, OldBedrocker and 13 others
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #142
COV said:
Its my opinion, and I would stick by it. Can you name another player as naturally talented as him?

Bear in mind there is a very big difference between 'talented' and 'effective'.

O'Hare is our best player by a mile in my opinion, but I would say Bright has more natural talent.
Click to expand...

I’d argue that O’Hare aside from his finishing is the more natural talent but yes that’s a matter of opinion. We have some here using a single League Cup game or a small number of League 1 performances as proof that Bright is the best talent at the club.
 
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Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #143
Timperley said:
Silly me clicking on a thread titled Forest assuming it would contain chat/debate about our upcoming opponents. Who needs that when I can read an argument about whether or not Bright was MOTM against Man City in the Carabao Cup 4 years ago.
Click to expand...

Go over to the mask wearing thread
 
Reactions: Terry_dactyl and Frank Sidebottom

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #144
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I’d argue that O’Hare aside from his finishing is the more natural talent but yes that’s a matter of opinion. We have some here using a single League Cup game or a small number of League 1 performances as proof that Bright is the best talent at the club.
Click to expand...

No, its more than that, you can't base it on one game.

You see it in all sports- the most talented are rarely the most successful and often come with 'outside the game' issues. The most successful players aren't by any means always the most talented, they're the ones who work hard, improve themselves and have the right attitude. Not saying that Bright is the next Gazza or Alex Higgins, far from it- but I agree O'Hare 100% is our best player and I think Bright has more talent. Talent means nothing without proper application though, thats where his problem lies.
 
Reactions: Greggs and wingy

Londonccfcfan

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #145
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I’d argue that O’Hare aside from his finishing is the more natural talent but yes that’s a matter of opinion. We have some here using a single League Cup game or a small number of League 1 performances as proof that Bright is the best talent at the club.
Click to expand...

Huh he already has more championship appearances than most of our squad. In a wolves team on upward trajectory in championship.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #146
Think I'd keep an open mind,but err on the side of don't write the guy off.
Personally I think he has"it".
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #147
COV said:
No, its more than that, you can't base it on one game.

You see it in all sports- the most talented are rarely the most successful and often come with 'outside the game' issues. The most successful players aren't by any means always the most talented, they're the ones who work hard, improve themselves and have the right attitude. Not saying that Bright is the next Gazza or Alex Higgins, far from it- but I agree O'Hare 100% is our best player and I think Bright has more talent. Talent means nothing without proper application though, thats where his problem lies.
Click to expand...

Talent is extremely subjective though and we’re basing the judgment on a very small pool of games in Bright’s case. O’Hare has shown his flair over enough games and dare I say Hamer showed a lot of natural talent before the season began to catch up with him.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #148
Londonccfcfan said:
Huh he already has more championship appearances than most of our squad. In a wolves team on upward trajectory in championship.
Click to expand...

Did you watch any of those?
 

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #149
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Talent is extremely subjective though and we’re basing the judgment on a very small pool of games in Bright’s case. O’Hare has shown his flair over enough games and dare I say Hamer showed a lot of natural talent before the season began to catch up with him.
Click to expand...

Hamer also has more talent than O'Hare, especially if you're calling it "flair".

Bright has the ability to beat men and then plant it in the corner, never seen O'Hare do that (or Hamer).

But for the next 10 matches Bright might well do bugger all, whereas O'Hare will always deliver.

O'Hare can be an 8/10 every week, Bright could be a 10/10 one week and a 0/10 for the next month

Flair is not the same as being a 'good player', thats why I would never call Bright our best player. But if you're sticking to 'flair' then Bright has the most flair of anyone we have.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #150
COV said:
Its my opinion, and I would stick by it. Can you name another player as naturally talented as him?

Bear in mind there is a very big difference between 'talented' and 'effective'.

O'Hare is our best player by a mile in my opinion, but I would say Bright has more natural talent.
Click to expand...

To be talented so you have to prove it at this level?
 
D

Deleted member 4439

Guest
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #151
I know I will have missed this, but who are trialist A and B?
 

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #152
Grendel said:
To be talented so you have to prove it at this level?
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is any doubt he needs to prove it. Natural ability gets you nowhere if you don't have the application. I think Robins said it himself didn't he- "he is an incredible talent" or something like that.

Its up to him now, he'll either be a star or will end up in the Chinese league or something
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #153
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Did you watch any of those?
Click to expand...

Kevin Kyle has more premier league games than our whole squad doesn’t he?
 
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #154
COV said:
I don't think anyone is any doubt he needs to prove it. Natural ability gets you nowhere if you don't have the application. I think Robins said it himself didn't he- "he is an incredible talent" or something like that.

Its up to him now, he'll either be a star or will end up in the Chinese league or something
Click to expand...

He hasn’t demonstrated any ability at this level it’s why every club have chucked him out
 

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #155
Grendel said:
He hasn’t demonstrated any ability at this level it’s why every club have chucked him out
Click to expand...

So Ravel Morrison is not talented either then
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #156
After playing in 20 odd games in his 3rd season he was loaned out to Kilmarnock- strange considering he’s supposed to have the potential to be top 6 PL player.
 

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #157
Sick Boy said:
After playing in 20 odd games in his 3rd season he was loaned out to Kilmarnock- strange considering he’s supposed to have the potential to be top 6 PL player.
Click to expand...

You can have all the potential & skill you want, but if you act an idiot and don't bother yourself then you're not going to get anywhere
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #158
COV said:
So Ravel Morrison is not talented either then
Click to expand...

No
 

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #159
Grendel said:
No
Click to expand...

So you disagree with Alex Ferguson & others, I think we'll leave it there
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #160
COV said:
So you disagree with Alex Ferguson & others, I think we'll leave it there
Click to expand...

ah yes nothing to do with bigging him up to West Ham who then signed him on a deal that meant they were paid 25 grand every time he put on a West Ham shirt
 

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #161
Grendel said:
ah yes nothing to do with bigging him up to West Ham who then signed him on a deal that meant they were paid 25 grand every time he put on a West Ham shirt
Click to expand...

Ferguson actually said that 2 years before he sold him if you'd care to check. Then Allardyce said "we all know about his talent, he doesn't need to impress me as a footballer, its his discipline" before giving up.

So as with Bright- very talented but thats not the same as being a good player, which is the whole point being made.
 
Reactions: cc84cov, Grendel and covcity4life
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #162
COV said:
Ferguson actually said that 2 years before he sold him if you'd care to check. Then Allardyce said "we all know about his talent, he doesn't need to impress me as a footballer, its his discipline" before giving up.

So as with Bright- very talented but thats not the same as being a good player, which is the whole point being made.
Click to expand...

I think I get what you're trying to say but this just reads as a straight contradiction
 

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #163
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I think I get what you're trying to say but this just reads as a straight contradiction
Click to expand...

But its not

There are numerous examples of players in all sports with loads of raw ability that never quite make it because of their attitude.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #164
COV said:
But its not

There are numerous examples of players in all sports with loads of raw ability that never quite make it because of their attitude.
Click to expand...

Having lots of ability but not being a good player just sounds mutually exclusive to me but I think I get what you're trying to say.
 

COV

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #165
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Having lots of ability but not being a good player just sounds mutually exclusive to me but I think I get what you're trying to say.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean too but if that was the case then people like Roy Wegerle would have been megastars. I think I said it before but Strachan said that Eion Jess was the most talented player on the training field, but couldn't produce on the pitch.

Maybe use the word "effective"- someone like Kelly is effective but I don't think anyone would say that he's got as much ability as Bright, however Bright is seen as the risk, the potential waste even though he can do things Kelly could only dream of.

No idea if that makes sense but I guess I'm trying to say that ability does not automatically mean a successful career- you can be incredibly talented & fall by the wayside while players with much less ability go onto have great careers.

Anyway Bright is on for the second half apparently so lets see what he does...
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #166
COV said:
I know what you mean too but if that was the case then people like Roy Wegerle would have been megastars. I think I said it before but Strachan said that Eion Jess was the most talented player on the training field, but couldn't produce on the pitch.

Maybe use the word "effective"- someone like Kelly is effective but I don't think anyone would say that he's got as much ability as Bright, however Bright is seen as the risk, the potential waste even though he can do things Kelly could only dream of.

No idea if that makes sense but I guess I'm trying to say that ability does not automatically mean a successful career- you can be incredibly talented & fall by the wayside while players with much less ability go onto have great careers.
Click to expand...

I suppose my point is that I don't know how people can distinguish one off performances from genuine talent shown over a longer period. Will agree to disagree on comparisons to O'Hare talent wise
 

NortonSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #167
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I’d argue that O’Hare aside from his finishing is the more natural talent but yes that’s a matter of opinion. We have some here using a single League Cup game or a small number of League 1 performances as proof that Bright is the best talent at the club.
Click to expand...
I would go with what I saw with my own eyes. Bright is a game changer, who run at players and has an end product. An exciting talent.
O‘Hare is such an energetic full on, never give them a moment player, who if his goal record matched the rest of his game would be still at Villa.
Both have given us something we lacked with Jones out. Now we have all of them.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #168
riyadhskyblue said:
I would go with what I saw with my own eyes. Bright is a game changer, who run at players and has an end product. An exciting talent.
O‘Hare is such an energetic full on, never give them a moment player, who if his goal record matched the rest of his game would be still at Villa.
Both have given us something we lacked with Jones out. Now we have all of them.
Click to expand...

And yet he couldn't persuade Peterborough to give him a contract in League 1 when really he'd be exactly the sort of player they'd go for off your description. The proof though is in his performances and we'll see sure enough which Bright we've got.
 

NortonSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #169
Brighton Sky Blue said:
And yet he couldn't persuade Peterborough to give him a contract in League 1 when really he'd be exactly the sort of player they'd go for off your description. The proof though is in his performances and we'll see sure enough which Bright we've got.
Click to expand...
Please note I stated what I saw with my own eyes and he was superb for us. If he falls short of that then I will of course join you in questioning my opinion.
 
Reactions: covcity4life

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #170
What a surprise Brighton is crying again....about bright lol
 
S

skybluereeve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #171
How id Maasten do?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #172
skybluereeve said:
How id Maasten do?
Click to expand...
He looked good going forward but a bit iffy defensively

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
S

skybluereeve

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #173
stupot07 said:
He looked good going forward but a bit iffy defensively

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Thanks pal
 
Reactions: COV

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #174
skybluereeve said:
Thanks pal
Click to expand...
To be fair he was up against one of the quickest players in the world
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 1, 2021
  • #175
Brighton Sky Blue said:
And yet he couldn't persuade Peterborough to give him a contract in League 1 when really he'd be exactly the sort of player they'd go for off your description. The proof though is in his performances and we'll see sure enough which Bright we've got.
Click to expand...
Who gives a fuck about Peterborough

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Tommo1993, COV, cc84cov and 2 others
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