Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics)

fernandopartridge

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Dec 9, 2011
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Not questioning there are rises but still need some context Fernando. I took a couple of pics from the gov numbers a few days back, for example on 6 Sept

Patients in hospital (covid) 756
Patients on ventilators 69
Patients admitted 124 (although think this had been stuck for a few days).

Yesterday’s uploaded figure
patients in hospital 972 (Sunday)
Patients on ventilators 106 (Monday)

Patients admitted is out of date so not sure where I can find latest number. Where do you get yours as gov site isn’t great.

now obviously any increase is concerning (I’d imagine that these numbers will unfortunately continue to increase for a while yet), however, at its peak I think
Patients in hospital with covid was something like 17,000 (from memory) they think tens of thousands were catching it per day and around 4-5000 were on ventilators. Not to mention deaths.

As I say people are right to be concerned but percentage rises on relatively small numbers can sometimes be misleading and distort people’s views. Hopefully people will heed the new advice and figures won’t start growing exponentially. Fingers crossed anyway
Yes, it's a fair point that the % rise against a small number needs a bit of context, but it generally is just a reflection of

The peak was a catastrophic situation though, just saying it isn't as bad as then is no consolation. The speed at which things are growing is awful, particularly in the context of schools reopening and unavailability of tests.

It all feels a bit like history repeating itself to me, only there will not be a lockdown to stem the spread of the virus.
 

CCFCSteve

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We seem to be sleep walking into the same, if not worse, situation we were in earlier in the year. Yet again we seem to be a few weeks behind mainland Europe but seem to think what’s happening there won’t happen here.
It will most probably happen here though Dave, its a pandemic with no current vaccine. It’s what’s then done to manage nhs capacity, treat it etc etc that is probably the main focus.

Ps if they don’t sort the track and trace app to go live in the next week or so as planned it will be another nail in Hancocks ministerial coffin as its essential to ensure people self isolate if they’ve come into contact with someone with it (to help manage that capacity)
 

NorthernWisdom

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It will most probably happen here though Dave, its a pandemic with no current vaccine. It’s what’s then done to manage nhs capacity, treat it etc etc that is probably the main focus.

Ps if they don’t sort the track and trace app to go live in the next week or so as planned it will be another nail in Hancocks ministerial coffin as its essential to ensure people self isolate if they’ve come into contact with someone with it (to help manage that capacity)
Should be the Prime Minister ultimately responsible. Health Secretaries are expendible, but won't change the leadership from the top.
 

CCFCSteve

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Should be the Prime Minister ultimately responsible. Health Secretaries are expendible, but won't change the leadership from the top.
Probably four years to next election though NW (although wouldn’t shock me until Johnson left before end of his term). If you’re not the best then at least get as good a team around you as possible...that’s his major failing to date
 

shmmeee

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It will most probably happen here though Dave, its a pandemic with no current vaccine. It’s what’s then done to manage nhs capacity, treat it etc etc that is probably the main focus.

Ps if they don’t sort the track and trace app to go live in the next week or so as planned it will be another nail in Hancocks ministerial coffin as its essential to ensure people self isolate if they’ve come into contact with someone with it (to help manage that capacity)
The lockdown and other measures aren’t just to save lives though, they’re to provide people with confidence to go about their lives and keep the economy going.

People started locking themselves down before the government first time The idea the lockdown harms the economy isn’t born out with the data. Countries that locked down hard and gave people confidence saw their economies rebounding quicker. We’ve had the worst of both worlds.

What is needed is a show of competence from the government ultimately. People don’t trust them to have a handle on it and will over correct to be cautious. It’s not about a particular policy so much.

Right now testing is vital to any kind of return to normality. I’m so sick of hearing excuses and fudging of data. This is too important for that sort of naked politicking. But this government is fundamentally unserious and incompetent.
 

CCFCSteve

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The lockdown and other measures aren’t just to save lives though, they’re to provide people with confidence to go about their lives and keep the economy going.

People started locking themselves down before the government first time The idea the lockdown harms the economy isn’t born out with the data. Countries that locked down hard and gave people confidence saw their economies rebounding quicker. We’ve had the worst of both worlds.

What is needed is a show of competence from the government ultimately. People don’t trust them to have a handle on it and will over correct to be cautious. It’s not about a particular policy so much.

Right now testing is vital to any kind of return to normality. I’m so sick of hearing excuses and fudging of data. This is too important for that sort of naked politicking. But this government is fundamentally unserious and incompetent.
I agree with stricter local measures but another national lockdown....really ?! People couldn’t go about their lives during the lockdown, that was the issue (If we knew if/when a vaccine was coming I’d agree but surely they’ll just continue to be spikes until then, it’s managing them that will be the key)

Agree 100% about the testing. I was sympathetic early days but 6 months after the outbreak (plus a forewarning from abroad !), unacceptable

Edit - please don’t mention South Korea !!! Let’s stick to comparable around Europe. Even Germans running at around 1.5k cases per day currently
 
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shmmeee

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I agree with stricter local measures but another national lockdown....really ?! People couldn’t go about their lives during the lockdown, that was the issue (If we knew if/when a vaccine was coming I’d agree but surely they’ll just continue to be spikes until then, it’s managing them that will be the key)

Agree 100% about the testing. I was sympathetic early days but 6 months after the outbreak (plus a forewarning from abroad !), unacceptable

Edit - please don’t mention South Korea !!! Let’s stick to comparable around Europe. Even Germans running at around 1.5k cases per day currently
I don’t think we need a national lockdown yet. I think we need a sensible public health message firstly about the importance of taking measures like mask wearing and maintaining distance and we need to not be telling office workers who can work from home they have to come back.

This is the main point:


Just like with Brexit their lack of planning is now our emergency. Not even angry, just so tired of the incompetence. It’s not even about ideology, frankly it makes me happy they can’t organise a piss up in a brewery when it comes to policy as the chances of them actually carrying out their plans is slim. But on the virus it matters that they can deliver.
 
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Ring Of Steel

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Probably four years to next election though NW (although wouldn’t shock me until Johnson left before end of his term). If you’re not the best then at least get as good a team around you as possible...that’s his major failing to date
he doesn't decide the team, thats Cummings.
 

Grendel

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I agree with stricter local measures but another national lockdown....really ?! People couldn’t go about their lives during the lockdown, that was the issue (If we knew if/when a vaccine was coming I’d agree but surely they’ll just continue to be spikes until then, it’s managing them that will be the key)

Agree 100% about the testing. I was sympathetic early days but 6 months after the outbreak (plus a forewarning from abroad !), unacceptable

Edit - please don’t mention South Korea !!! Let’s stick to comparable around Europe. Even Germans running at around 1.5k cases per day currently
Also of course the economies such as Germany and France didn’t fully lock down as industry carried on in some firm largely through it. Their schemes of furlough are long established lay off programmes and allow part time working. Big plants opened up pretty quickly but we were locked for 3 months

I guess we had to do it that way as we had no scheme. Also the revenue and treasury which has always been pretty dire was excellent and getting this scheme off the ground quickly and efficiently so if rightly you attack Hancock and his bumbling you’d have to praise Sunak as money lands into accounts quickly and small business loans were by June easy to access
 
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NorthernWisdom

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I agree with stricter local measures but another national lockdown....really ?! People couldn’t go about their lives during the lockdown, that was the issue (If we knew if/when a vaccine was coming I’d agree but surely they’ll just continue to be spikes until then, it’s managing them that will be the key)
I think a national lockdown is the only practical thing. History says that this will pass eventually due to natural causes, and next year from summer ought to at least start to get better, you'd hope.

But, learning from our last one, hitting hard and early is key, to minimise disruption. Piecemeal will cause more issues, and mean it drags on for longer.
 
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Grendel

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I think a national lockdown is the only practical thing. History says that this will pass eventually due to natural causes, and next year from summer ought to at least start to get better, you'd hope.

But, learning from our last one, hitting hard and early is key, to minimise disruption. Piecemeal will cause more issues, and mean it drags on for longer.
So you would shut all places of work?
 

Ring Of Steel

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I think a national lockdown is the only practical thing. History says that this will pass eventually due to natural causes, and next year from summer ought to at least start to get better, you'd hope.

But, learning from our last one, hitting hard and early is key, to minimise disruption. Piecemeal will cause more issues, and mean it drags on for longer.
You would have thought that someone in the government would be be able to draft clear rules if it happens again, instead of leaving 60m+ people to work it out for themselves
 

CCFCSteve

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I don’t think we need a national lockdown yet. I think we need a sensible public health message firstly about the importance of taking measures like mask wearing and maintaining distance and we need to not be telling office workers who can work from home they have to come back.

This is the main point:


Just like with Brexit their lack of planning is now our emergency. Not even angry, just so tired of the incompetence. It’s not even about ideology, frankly it makes me happy they can’t organise a piss up in a brewery when it comes to policy as the chances of them actually carrying out their plans is slim. But on the virus it matters that they can deliver.
That Rachel Cunliffes correct mate
 

skyblueindorset

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You would have thought that someone in the government would be be able to draft clear rules if it happens again, instead of leaving 60m+ people to work it out for themselves
The problem is that no matter how clear the rules are, there are plenty of cretins that will ignore them with little or no sanctions.
 

Ring Of Steel

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The problem is that no matter how clear the rules are, there are plenty of cretins that will ignore them with little or no sanctions.
I agree, however we didn't even get to that point did we, there were no clear rules.

I mean stop to think about this a minute, we're 6 mths in and these are the types of 'rules' coming out:

1. We are not allowed to talk to family members in the street & are asked to report neighbours who have a few people around to their house.
2. We are allowed, if we so wish, to go grouse shooting with 29 other people.

This is the 'new norm', getting edicts like this & expected to know what the f*ck to do.
 

skyblueindorset

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I agree, however we didn't even get to that point did we, there were no clear rules.

I mean stop to think about this a minute, we're 6 mths in and these are the types of 'rules' coming out:

1. We are not allowed to talk to family members in the street & are asked to report neighbours who have a few people around to their house.
2. We are allowed, if we so wish, to go grouse shooting with 29 other people.

This is the 'new norm', getting edicts like this & expected to know what the f*ck to do.
I agree, RoS. The 'guidance' we have from the government doesn't seem logical and can be confusing. However, some is perfectly straightforward and there are still people that won't conform.
 
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ajsccfc

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Imagine what the numbers would be if they were actually testing people instead of diverting them away
 

fernandopartridge

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Just saw a chart, now can’t find thanks to the magic of Twitter, that showed us on exactly the same trajectory as France and Italy I think. We’ll be 10k in no time. It’s April all over again.
We'll never get to 10k reported cases because we just don't do enough testing
 

xcraigx

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Just saw a chart, now can’t find thanks to the magic of Twitter, that showed us on exactly the same trajectory as France and Italy I think. We’ll be 10k in no time. It’s April all over again.
Looks like we're 5 weeks behind Spain, 4 weeks behind France. Spain announced 156 deaths yesterday and 239 today. Around 6 weeks back deaths were in single digits. French deaths are certainly going up but are still relatively small at the moment.
 

NorthernWisdom

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The way these things work, if Johnson is saying a second national lockdown isn't going to happen if at all possible... it's inevitable.

It's like giving a football manager the vote of confidence!
 

Grendel

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The way these things work, if Johnson is saying a second national lockdown isn't going to happen if at all possible... it's inevitable.

It's like giving a football manager the vote of confidence!
Cant see it happening unless other European countries do
 
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Ian1779

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I'd say alot more tbh
We will continue to wander blindly into this until we are at breaking point. I think half of all schools will be shut or have reduced capacity within 2 weeks.
 

Grendel

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We will continue to wander blindly into this until we are at breaking point. I think half of all schools will be shut or have reduced capacity within 2 weeks.
Is that what European countries see doing?
 

shmmeee

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We will continue to wander blindly into this until we are at breaking point. I think half of all schools will be shut or have reduced capacity within 2 weeks.
It was an easy decision last time. Y11 basically gone, end of the year in sight with summer to hope for improvement.

If you don’t lock down when you close schools you don’t get people into work because kids are at home and there’s no support because technically the government isn’t doing anything.

I think the schools will be the last thing to close TBH. They’ll just be expected to hobble on like all public services when under resourced.
 
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Ian1779

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It was an easy decision last time. Y11 basically gone, end of the year in sight with summer to hope for improvement.

If you don’t lock down when you close schools you don’t get people into work because kids are at home and there’s no support because technically the government isn’t doing anything.

I think the schools will be the last thing to close TBH. They’ll just be expected to hobble on like all public services when under resourced.
I don’t think it’s a case of them being ‘closed’ by the government, it’s more that eventually there will not be enough staff to keep them open safely.

School lockdown by default.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

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Curfew at 11.00pm please unless , of course , you are going to work.
Close all pubs at 10pm.
Get the coppers out and fine
anyone flouting the law £500 on the spot.

That's just for starters .
 
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Grendel

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I don’t think it’s a case of them being ‘closed’ by the government, it’s more that eventually there will not be enough staff to keep them open safely.

School lockdown by default.
Jesus Christ
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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It was an easy decision last time. Y11 basically gone, end of the year in sight with summer to hope for improvement.

If you don’t lock down when you close schools you don’t get people into work because kids are at home and there’s no support because technically the government isn’t doing anything.

I think the schools will be the last thing to close TBH. They’ll just be expected to hobble on like all public services when under resourced.
Attendance right now is about 85% and falling daily
 
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