Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics)

wingy

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Jul 9, 2011
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Who runs a pub.
Heard something yesterday,in the news today along with hairdresser's.
 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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I am fairly sure that NHS labs have got capacity but Hancock and Harding insist on the tests from Pillar 2 to go to a selection of private labs ('the lighthouse laboratories').
I remember reading an article earlier in the year saying just this. Several trusts coming forward and saying that their labs were already geared or gearing up for mass testing but being shunned for the so called lighthouse labs. Beggars belief if that’s still the case.
 

shmmeee

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Jul 11, 2011
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I don’t understand what happened to the war effort theme. Nothing has been done it seems to requisition capacity for schools or testing in the months we had to prepare. It was obvious testing was the way out of this, instead of throwing billions at a scheme to help large reateraunt chains which restarted the infection rate we could’ve spent it on hiring in labs, paying offices to host temp schools, all sorts.

It just seems like we’ve tried nothing and all the effort has gone into keeping large businesses running as normal.
 

fernandopartridge

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I remember reading an article earlier in the year saying just this. Several trusts coming forward and saying that their labs were already geared or gearing up for mass testing but being shunned for the so called lighthouse labs. Beggars belief if that’s still the case.
Well yeah, there are a selection of NHS hub labs that can perform a very wide range of tests and have capacity. You can only reach the conclusion that it is shock doctrine stuff.
 

Sky Blue Pete

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Nov 24, 2012
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I don’t understand what happened to the war effort theme. Nothing has been done it seems to requisition capacity for schools or testing in the months we had to prepare. It was obvious testing was the way out of this, instead of throwing billions at a scheme to help large reateraunt chains which restarted the infection rate we could’ve spent it on hiring in labs, paying offices to host temp schools, all sorts.

It just seems like we’ve tried nothing and all the effort has gone into keeping large businesses running as normal.
You should be involved in this type of stuff. Very creative and thoughtful in your planning
 
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chiefdave

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Not sure why people are complaining about tests, Patel was on TV this morning and was very clear, "tests are available" and "its wrong to say tests are not available".
I know it says 380k but that can’t be right for the labs ?
I made the same mistake, although the way the data is presented is pretty misleading. The total test capacity number the government are throwing out every day includes antibody tests.

As you can see that number conveniently shot up at the time they were getting grief for being way off the promised testing numbers back in the spring and switched from tests done to testing capacity.

The actual swab testing capacity is 240K. You can see pretty clearly the tests processed (the dark blue line) has been rapidly catching up with the testing capacity (light blue line) yet seemingly nothing put in place for when the two meet. The daily testing numbers for antibody tests processed are fairly static at around 20K.
Screenshot 2020-09-15 at 11.41.31.png
Hospitals and other essential services won’t be able to run if staff are all off waiting for tests. Then again the government could easily have foreseen this scenario and they did a half arsed job.
Peston has suggested part of the issue currently is that 100K tests a day are being reserved for workers in social care.
 
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chiefdave

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Spent some time this morning working out just how screwed I'd be if I'm not back in work when furlough ends. Anyone who thinks living on benefits is an easy life might want to try running through the entitledto website and seeing what you'd be expected to live on.

Mine ends up as £409.89 a month. One thing I can't really get my head round is why, if I was renting, I'd get an additional £488.67 a month but as a mortgage payer I get nothing. Well that's not strictly true, after 9 months on benefits I can claim £1.21 a month towards my mortgage!

Reckon I could just about get through to May, assuming the bank are cooperative with a mortgage holiday (they seem to be nothing more than usual steps for people struggling to pay rather than something specific to help with corona) before I'm in serious trouble so would just have to hope things are getting back to normal by then.
 

CCFCSteve

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I remember reading an article earlier in the year saying just this. Several trusts coming forward and saying that their labs were already geared or gearing up for mass testing but being shunned for the so called lighthouse labs. Beggars belief if that’s still the case.
Yeah, this was true Tony. From memory PHE apparently wanted to control everything centrally so were really slow to also involve uni and private labs. As I’ve said before ministers should rightly take flack for under performing departments but PHE were pretty shambolic at the start (PPE, testing etc). For example how do you not have alternative PPE supply chains lined up ie UK based manufacturers (that could immediately be turned on), incase there was a world wild pandemic ?!! (and countries looking after themselves) - this isn’t a funding issue, it’s a common sense issue !

I’m sympathetic due to these being unprecedented times but FFS !!
 

CCFCSteve

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Not sure why people are complaining about tests, Patel was on TV this morning and was very clear, "tests are available" and "its wrong to say tests are not available".

I made the same mistake, although the way the data is presented is pretty misleading. The total test capacity number the government are throwing out every day includes antibody tests.

As you can see that number conveniently shot up at the time they were getting grief for being way off the promised testing numbers back in the spring and switched from tests done to testing capacity.

The actual swab testing capacity is 240K. You can see pretty clearly the tests processed (the dark blue line) has been rapidly catching up with the testing capacity (light blue line) yet seemingly nothing put in place for when the two meet. The daily testing numbers for antibody tests processed are fairly static at around 20K.
View attachment 16921

Peston has suggested part of the issue currently is that 100K tests a day are being reserved for workers in social care.
That makes sense Dave. Think someone else mentioned antibody testing (sampling) previously.
 

NorthernWisdom

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Apr 23, 2013
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Yeah, this was true Tony. From memory PHE apparently wanted to control everything centrally so were really slow to also involve uni and private labs. As I’ve said before ministers should rightly take flack for under performing departments but PHE were pretty shambolic at the start (PPE, testing etc). For example how do you not have alternative PPE supply chains lined up ie UK based manufacturers (that could immediately be turned on), incase there was a world wild pandemic ?!! (and countries looking after themselves) - this isn’t a funding issue, it’s a common sense issue !

I’m sympathetic due to these being unprecedented times but FFS !!
Isn't a lot of that, though, government ignoring their own simulation exercise just three years earlier?
 

xcraigx

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Jan 24, 2013
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Ah well, I gave it 3 months but COVID has finished my business off. Just handed my notice in and am feeling strangely contented. The last few weeks in particular have been a nightmare but at least the worry of basically spending money putting off the inevitable is over. The wife works for me, but at least she's got something else (much better) lined up otherwise it could have been so much worse. I had got used to daytime telly during the lockdown so it'll be nice to see a bit more home under the hammer and bargain hunt. They have been missed.
 

fernandopartridge

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Dec 9, 2011
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Yeah, this was true Tony. From memory PHE apparently wanted to control everything centrally so were really slow to also involve uni and private labs. As I’ve said before ministers should rightly take flack for under performing departments but PHE were pretty shambolic at the start (PPE, testing etc). For example how do you not have alternative PPE supply chains lined up ie UK based manufacturers (that could immediately be turned on), incase there was a world wild pandemic ?!! (and countries looking after themselves) - this isn’t a funding issue, it’s a common sense issue !

I’m sympathetic due to these being unprecedented times but FFS !!
PHE is not responsible for sourcing PPE. It designs and commissions services and runs some public health laboratories, whose role it is to identify outbreaks not carry out mass testing. PHE had a role in quality assuring tests carried out by other NHS labs. PHE capacity was reached in March.

For an intelligent fella I think you ought to do a bit more reading and stop listening to politicians trying to scapegoat. How can PHE be to blame for not buying something they're not responsible for and not having the capacity to do any more than they have been designed and funded for?
 

CCFCSteve

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PHE is not responsible for sourcing PPE. It designs and commissions services and runs some public health laboratories, whose role it is to identify outbreaks not carry out mass testing. PHE had a role in quality assuring tests carried out by other NHS labs. PHE capacity was reached in March.

For an intelligent fella I think you ought to do a bit more reading and stop listening to politicians trying to scapegoat. How can PHE be to blame for not buying something they're not responsible for and not having the capacity to do any more than they have been designed and funded for?
I stand corrected about PPE, shouldn’t have lumped it in (I only do it for the back handed ‘intelligent’ comments 😉). I think the testing set up was originally the responsibility PHE though (appreciate not standard remit but they were overseeing it) then wasn’t it moved after the initial shambles ?

I’ve said previously that ministers should ultimately held accountable (also said Hancock and Williamson shouldnt probably was in jobs) but there are others who have got to take responsibility, whether that be PHE, NHS procurement etc etc, very highly paid senior people who would not have delivered albeit in unprecedented times

Ps think I’d mentioned previously that the infectious diseases team in PHE employs over 2000 people

Edit - See below. As I’ve said this isn’t me defending people like Hancock (who I can barely stand) but people have also got to look at the bigger picture and not just a ministerial scapegoat for everything failing.


‘ Another example is the issue of testing for the virus. There are dozens of laboratories across the UK capable of doing this testing – in the public, private and third sectors, including universities.

Instead of utilising this capacity, Public Health England, who are responsible for coordinating testing, decided to centralise everything. Initially, they centred everything on a handful of their own laboratories. This massively limited capacity.

But they had a plan – to build three big testing facilities, from scratch. The first is in Milton Keynes, and the other two are at Alderley Park in Cheshire, and in Glasgow.

(On a personal note, Alderley Park is where I started my working life in 1969. Back then it was an ICI Pharmaceuticals research centre and I worked as a Lab Technician in their toxicology labs.)

Not surprisingly there are long lead-times in setting up such facilities, even where, as at Alderley, there is some existing capacity.

Very belatedly, the strategy switched in late March or early April to include the decentralised university and private labs as it became clear the UK was reaching nowhere near the level of testing necessary.

But by then the UK had lost weeks in ramping up testing to the levels seen in many other countries.’

Guardian article


Coronavirus testing: how some countries got ahead of the rest

‘Prof Eleanor Riley, an infectious disease expert at the University of Edinburgh and former director of the Roslin Institute, said these resources could have been tapped into far earlier and, in some cases, laboratories’ offers were not taken up. “This could’ve happened a month ago,” she said. “PHE has been plugging on in its very blinkered way and meanwhile there’s a revolution going on on the shop floor. It’s like hospitals have decided, ‘We’re just going to go ahead and do it.’”
 
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jimmyhillsfanclub

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May 31, 2012
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Ah well, I gave it 3 months but COVID has finished my business off. Just handed my notice in and am feeling strangely contented. The last few weeks in particular have been a nightmare but at least the worry of basically spending money putting off the inevitable is over. The wife works for me, but at least she's got something else (much better) lined up otherwise it could have been so much worse. I had got used to daytime telly during the lockdown so it'll be nice to see a bit more home under the hammer and bargain hunt. They have been missed.
Sorry to hear about your business going down Craig. May well be too late but how about trying to claw something back from the legalized thieves otherwise know as the insurance company. Small firms thrown lifeline in insurance case ruling
 

chiefdave

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Sep 27, 2008
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These people are on a different planet.
Downing Street revealed testing was discussed at a Cabinet meeting chaired by Prime Minister Boris Johnson on Tuesday morning.

Following the cabinet meeting Jacob Rees-Mogg, the Leader of the House of Commons, hailed the testing programme as a "government success".

"I think it's going as well as could possibly be expected considering the demand," he said.
 
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fernandopartridge

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I stand corrected about PPE, shouldn’t have lumped it in (I only do it for the back handed ‘intelligent’ comments 😉). I think the testing set up was originally the responsibility PHE though (appreciate not standard remit but they were overseeing it) then wasn’t it moved after the initial shambles ?

I’ve said previously that ministers should ultimately held accountable (also said Hancock and Williamson shouldnt probably was in jobs) but there are others who have got to take responsibility, whether that be PHE, NHS procurement etc etc, very highly paid senior people who would not have delivered albeit in unprecedented times

Ps think I’d mentioned previously that the infectious diseases team in PHE employs over 2000 people
Agree on accountability but ultimately the buck stops here with Hancock and the Tories generally. They designed the entire NHS landscape including significant reform of the procurement bodies (with the aim of efficiency). They underfunded the entire service for 10 years. This is on them.
 

clint van damme

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May 3, 2015
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Ah well, I gave it 3 months but COVID has finished my business off. Just handed my notice in and am feeling strangely contented. The last few weeks in particular have been a nightmare but at least the worry of basically spending money putting off the inevitable is over. The wife works for me, but at least she's got something else (much better) lined up otherwise it could have been so much worse. I had got used to daytime telly during the lockdown so it'll be nice to see a bit more home under the hammer and bargain hunt. They have been missed.
Unlucky mate. Least you have it a bash. Better luck with your next venture
 
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chiefdave

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Ah well, I gave it 3 months but COVID has finished my business off. Just handed my notice in and am feeling strangely contented. The last few weeks in particular have been a nightmare but at least the worry of basically spending money putting off the inevitable is over. The wife works for me, but at least she's got something else (much better) lined up otherwise it could have been so much worse. I had got used to daytime telly during the lockdown so it'll be nice to see a bit more home under the hammer and bargain hunt. They have been missed.
Sorry to hear that mate. Good news that the wife has already sorted something else out. Hopefully that will keep your head above water until things start getting back to normal.
 
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fernandopartridge

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People in hospital up by 26% in a week
People on ventilators up by 50% in a week
Daily hospital admissions in England up by 82% in a week
 

Marty

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CCFCSteve

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People in hospital up by 26% in a week
People on ventilators up by 50% in a week
Daily hospital admissions in England up by 82% in a week
Not questioning there are rises but still need some context Fernando. I took a couple of pics from the gov numbers a few days back, for example on 6 Sept

Patients in hospital (covid) 756
Patients on ventilators 69
Patients admitted 124 (although think this had been stuck for a few days).

Yesterday’s uploaded figure
patients in hospital 972 (Sunday)
Patients on ventilators 106 (Monday)

Patients admitted is out of date so not sure where I can find latest number. Where do you get yours as gov site isn’t great.

now obviously any increase is concerning (I’d imagine that these numbers will unfortunately continue to increase for a while yet), however, at its peak I think
Patients in hospital with covid was something like 17,000 (from memory) they think tens of thousands were catching it per day and around 4-5000 were on ventilators. Not to mention deaths.

As I say people are right to be concerned but percentage rises on relatively small numbers can sometimes be misleading and distort people’s views. Hopefully people will heed the new advice and figures won’t start growing exponentially. Fingers crossed anyway
 

Ring Of Steel

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Not questioning there are rises but still need some context Fernando. I took a couple of pics from the gov numbers a few days back, for example on 6 Sept

Patients in hospital (covid) 756
Patients on ventilators 69
Patients admitted 124 (although think this had been stuck for a few days).

Yesterday’s uploaded figure
patients in hospital 972 (Sunday)
Patients on ventilators 106 (Monday)

Patients admitted is out of date so not sure where I can find latest number. Where do you get yours as gov site isn’t great.

now obviously any increase is concerning (I’d imagine that these numbers will unfortunately continue to increase for a while yet), however, at its peak I think
Patients in hospital with covid was something like 17,000 (from memory) they think tens of thousands were catching it per day and around 4-5000 were on ventilators. Not to mention deaths.

As I say people are right to be concerned but percentage rises on relatively small numbers can sometimes be misleading and distort people’s views. Hopefully people will heed the new advice and figures won’t start growing exponentially. Fingers crossed anyway
Yes I'm sure that people just have things out of context, its not really as much of a problem as people think.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

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Andy Burnham (with whom i've been impressed so far during the pandemic) reckons if the testing situation is not completed sorted within 2-3 weeks we'll lose control of the virus............I think hes wrong. I reckon that bird has flown. We're doomed.
 

chiefdave

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Andy Burnham (with whom i've been impressed so far during the pandemic) reckons if the testing situation is not completed sorted within 2-3 weeks we'll lose control of the virus............I think hes wrong. I reckon that bird has flown. We're doomed.
We seem to be sleep walking into the same, if not worse, situation we were in earlier in the year. Yet again we seem to be a few weeks behind mainland Europe but seem to think what’s happening there won’t happen here.
 

CCFCSteve

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Yes it is, like it was from day one.
Haha, thought you might’ve read that Rebel Ideas by now and accepted or at least acknowledge some different/diverse views and thoughts. Maybe not

Youre right though my views haven’t really changed much ie shield those most at risk and everyone low risk try to maintain as normal a life as possible (within the restrictions/following certain measures). I agreed with original lockdown to ensure capacity within NHS wasn’t breached but wouldn’t agree with another national lockdown unless there were so many location hospital spikes you may as well.

This has been pretty much backed up by my personal experiences since the outbreak:

I know of seven people who’ve had it, three asymptomatic (probably loads more but only three tested as key workers), two mild like a cold, one mate laid up in bed as had asthma (was worrying for a time) and an 80 odd year old man (with pre existing health conditions) in my mums village who sadly passed away. On the other hand as I mentioned the other day....my ex wife who’s mum has had a stroke nearly died and not been able to visit due to Covid restrictions, I’ve not seen my mum (High risk) for over six months due to concerns about passing it on and two friend of friends suicides due to depression (with lockdown, job concerns etc). That’s not to mention the numerous others who’s jobs are now at risk due lockdown and economic impact

And also my view, whether you agree or not (your prerogative) is back up by some actual numbers (85-90% of deaths have pre existing health conditions, 85-90% over 65, 2% over 50, three times more likely to die if obese, cultural impacts etc etc) - some of these percentages might’ve altered a little but guessing not much.

I see plenty of bitching about what’s happening (some valid, like the latest testing mess) but very little about what people would actually do in terms of measures if they were in charge

Ps bit ranty but you get the point
 
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