Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (22 Viewers)

[wingy]

The totals include antibody testing too .
What a time to foik it up.
Almost like they don't want data out to monitor the most critical aspect where releasing a sector of society back into wide circulation.

 

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[chiefdave]

Im not saying it’s not increasing but it’s still a fraction of the population. I was just looking for the latest national sampling figures as that should give a reasonable indication, can’t see them at the moment and got some work to do. Will check

This might be of interest.

Largest COVID-19 testing study shows cases are rising across England | Imperial News | Imperial College London

Latest findings from the biggest programme of home coronavirus testing in England have revealed that cases are growing in the community.

www.imperial.ac.uk

 

[chiefdave]

Understand. But the point remains the same Tony ie only a fraction of the population have got it. The sampling that’s carried out should provide a more accurate number

But isn't that because of the restrictions that have been in place? 41,628 deaths from 368,504 cases, that's more than 1 in 10 people who test positive dying. Are we really going back to the suggestion that we let it work its way through the population until we hit herd immunity?

 

[CCFCSteve]

But isn't that because of the restrictions that have been in place? 41,628 deaths from 368,504 cases, that's more than 1 in 10 people who test positive dying. Are we really going back to the suggestion that we let it work its way through the population until we hit herd immunity?

I think the actual case numbers are estimated anywhere around 3-4m. It will certainly not be anywhere near 10% death rate from the various studies around the world.

 

[skybluetony176]

Understand. But the point remains the same Tony ie only a fraction of the population have got it. The sampling that’s carried out should provide a more accurate number

Edit - just trying to bring some perspective and stop widespread panic !!

Buying 5 years worth of toilet paper in one shop is widespread panic. Being concerned about the number of cases rising is not a panic, being concerned that the spread is already breaking out of the young people demographic and finding its way back into care homes, which it is, is not a panic, it’s common sense.
We’re in danger of not learning one thing from the first wave if we start labelling every voice of concern as widespread panic.

 

[fernandopartridge]

But isn't that because of the restrictions that have been in place? 41,628 deaths from 368,504 cases, that's more than 1 in 10 people who test positive dying. Are we really going back to the suggestion that we let it work its way through the population until we hit herd immunity?

There have been 57k deaths, the 28 day time limit (imposed retrospectively) does not change what was on the death certificate

 

[fernandopartridge]

You can't take lightly a rise in cases just because the death rate is relatively low. The death rate of course is a product of a healthcare system that is not overwhelmed. If cases rise to such a level that the healthcare system is overwhelmed then we really are screwed.

 

[chiefdave]

I think the actual case numbers are estimated anywhere around 3-4m. It will certainly not be anywhere near 10% death rate from the various studies around the world.

This of course illustrates the issue with not collecting enough data but lets go with 3.4m from the Imperial College recent study. Even if you take the bottom end figure for herd immunity to kick in at 60% you're still looking at half a million deaths. Now it may be the mortality rate changes if the most vulnerable caught it in the first wave but its a hell of a risk to take.

 

[Evo1883]

To help enforce the rule of 6 People are being asked to snitch on their neighbours if seen breaking rules in Stasi-type fashion

 

[CCFCSteve]

You can't take lightly a rise in cases just because the death rate is relatively low. The death rate of course is a product of a healthcare system that is not overwhelmed. If cases rise to such a level that the healthcare system is overwhelmed then we really are screwed.

Agree 100% Fernando and obviously steps should be taken to ensure we remain within capacity limits which is what I think is happening already, even though we are hopefully some way off.

I think people have misinterpreted what I’m saying, I’m not saying let’s just ignore the uptick and hope the best. I’m saying let’s keep some perspective (as per Daves attached report est 0.13% of the population currently have it), shield those most at risk, tighten lockdown measures in locations where there’s spikes and get people to refocus efforts on the basics (washing hands regularly, wearing masks in confined spaces etc). Government - sort out this testing lab capacity mess (track and trace app should be live in a week or twos time which will help if testing capacity sorted)

Will I try to still live a relatively normal life apart from that (within the measures), yes. Do I think me, as someone who lives on my own, should be able to see friends who also live on their own ?? Yes (probably safer in a bar bizarrely than around someone’s house !) Would I suggest, a massive house party to see all my mates at the same time. No.

Just common sense and some perspective. What I see/hear a lot is people not accepting reality ie either accept pretty much lockdown to keep numbers at a minimum (and with it millions out of work, huge numbers of mental health issues, children not getting schooling and probably loads of other health issues remaining undetected). Or we learn to live with it for the time being as best we can, whilst remaining within nhs capacity limits, accepting that numbers will spike so we shield those most at risk and take limited measures to slow the spread. Each to their own which one of those people would go for but they’re the choices at the moment.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Covid tests sent to Italy and Germany as UK labs are overwhelmed

Leaked documents reveal backlog of 185,000 swabs and tests sent abroad for processing

www.theguardian.com

Brilliant

 

[clint van damme]

You can't take lightly a rise in cases just because the death rate is relatively low.

That's what happened in France but now the hospitalisations and deaths have started to rise there.

 

[David O'Day]

That's what happened in France but now the hospitalisations and deaths have started to rise there.

Didn't the 2nd waves in France and Spain start in the young and then spread to other parts of society?

 

[chiefdave]

Here's some more good news.

 

[clint van damme]

Didn't the 2nd waves in France and Spain start in the young and then spread to other parts of society?

Yeah. Think that's with The deaths were low but then it started spreading among elder people.

 

[Evo1883]

Here's some more good news.

Imagine this life we have now for 4 years... Fuck that

 

[Grendel]

Imagine this life we have now for 4 years... Fuck that

exactly if that’s true then we just take precautions and live with it and make out choices. I’m sure that’s one thing we would agree on if this is the case

 

[chiefdave]

Imagine this life we have now for 4 years... Fuck that

Not entirely sure how it works. Presumably if the Cambridge University one comes off we're at the front of the queue. If its another vaccine that is the one we need are the pharma companies going to be dicks about who owns the rights or just let every country manufacture it themselves?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Imagine this life we have now for 4 years... Fuck that

Thats the company that is working with Oxford University, I would tend to believe what he says.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The FT story about vaccines was taking into account some of the large pre orders from Europe and the USA. I think it is just highlighting that those with the means to pay will get first service.

TBH I was never anticipating personally being able to get vaccinated in the next year or two, rightly the priority should be given to the highest risk. I think it'll end up like the flu vaccination programme. There might be commercially available vaccines for the rest.

 

[Evo1883]

The FT story about vaccines was taking into account some of the large pre orders from Europe and the USA. I think it is just highlighting that those with the means to pay will get first service.

TBH I was never anticipating personally being able to get vaccinated in the next year or two, rightly the priority should be given to the highest risk. I think it'll end up like the flu vaccination programme. There might be commercially available vaccines for the rest.

I think alot of the population believe we will be vaccinated by next year... It's not going to go down well when they realise it could be upto 4 years

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah sounds like a scare piece to me. Rich nations will be first and the vulnerable first within them. We don’t need 7bn doses to get the world economy back up and running.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Not entirely sure how it works. Presumably if the Cambridge University one comes off we're at the front of the queue. If its another vaccine that is the one we need are the pharma companies going to be dicks about who owns the rights or just let every country manufacture it themselves?

You would be hard pressed to find a more dominant group of companies than the big pharma companies, they will call the shots. It will in all likelihood be the same as everything else, the richest countries first & the unlucky poorer countries have to wait. All the trials (I think) are partnered by a big pharma- the Indian company above are with Novovax for example, even the Cambridge trials are now actively seeking a "major partner to help us scale up our activities". Maybe I'm wrong and hopefully I am, but history would suggest that there will be some serious money made, with plenty of people waiting for a vaccine while those who can pay get it first. I'm ok with not getting it, I shouldn't be a priority, but not so sure about entire countries having to wait, which is what will happen.

 

[Saddlebrains]

Seems to be making news now.


A national problem ffs

 

[chiefdave]

The FT story about vaccines was taking into account some of the large pre orders from Europe and the USA. I think it is just highlighting that those with the means to pay will get first service.

TBH I was never anticipating personally being able to get vaccinated in the next year or two, rightly the priority should be given to the highest risk. I think it'll end up like the flu vaccination programme. There might be commercially available vaccines for the rest.

Couldn't read the story as the FT have it behind a paywall but I've found an Indian report which seems to come from the same interview. He works for the Serum Institute of India and seems to be suggesting that India doesn't have the infrastructure or manufacturing capacity to delver vaccines to 1.4bn people.

Of course given all the cock ups here to date you wonder how effectively we'll manage a project like that but his comments seem to suggest that part of the issue with vaccinating everyone in India and developing countries is that so many doses have already been allocated to countries such as the UK.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Seems to be making news now.


A national problem ffs

Is nobody 'in power' talking about this or has anybody been asked about it? Its a monumental fuckup even by our standards

 

[Saddlebrains]

Is nobody 'in power' talking about this or has anybody been asked about it? Its a monumental fuckup even by our standards

Doesn't seem to be being asked. Which is even more pathetic. Nothings being done as they arent being held to account

 

[clint van damme]

Seems this is a country wide problem. How the hell is it not front page news?

All the hallmarks of a second wave and no one can get a test

Wife's just been told by GP to get tested.
On line booking system giving the message- the on live service is currently very busy, can't get through on the phone.

I've a feeling we're about to find out first hand what you've been talking about.

Good news about the exemption for grouse shooting though

 

[shmmeee]

Wife's just been told by GP to get tested.
On line booking system giving the message- the on live service is currently very busy, can't get through on the phone.

I've a feeling we're about to find out first hand what you've been talking about.

Good news about the exemption for grouse shooting though

No point calling mate. In the words of the person we spoke to “we just go on the same website you do and do it for you”

 

[skybluetony176]

Here's some more good news.

That can’t come as a surprise really. People need to watch Contagion if things like this are really coming as a surprise.

 

[Saddlebrains]

Wife's just been told by GP to get tested.
On line booking system giving the message- the on live service is currently very busy, can't get through on the phone.

I've a feeling we're about to find out first hand what you've been talking about.

Good news about the exemption for grouse shooting though

Yep im afraid thats the case!

You wont get anywhere mate, the testing is fucked which is not fair on anybody

 

[NorthernWisdom]

So in lieu of all things pandemic, this new ‘rule of 6’ has come into play in England today. Groups of 6 or less. There are exceptions of course, which are underpinned by newly-released legal requirements. This new law explains what you can and cannot do.

And it is of course terribly straightforward! Let me explain - basically, what needs to happen is there needs to be a gathering, and you need to be part of a qualifying group to be able to join in that gathering. However, you must make sure that you do not become a member of any other qualifying group at the gathering, and you must not mingle (now a legal term, no mingling for you, citizens of England, okay?) with others at the gathering who are in other qualifying groups but who are also participating at the gathering.

These terms and conditions will depend a little bit on your type of gathering, so your qualifying group may be taking part in a significant event gathering, or a relevant outdoor activity (which is another name for a gathering), or a sports gathering (to name but three). Ultimately, as long as you don’t mingle and ensure your qualifying group is arranged appropriately at your gathering, then everything will be legally acceptable.

And in case you think I’m exaggerating for comic effect, I’m quoting directly from the legal infrastructure we are expected to understand and adhere to. Links in the comments. Also, note that the details of this new law were published 15 minutes before they came into force (i.e. 11:45pm last night). Another way in which this government has treated you in such contempt during this pandemic.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The other thing the democratic champions have done is introduced all of these laws without any parliamentary debate whatsoever.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Infections well down but u wonder if there cause there’s no tests available

 

[Saddlebrains]

Infections well down but u wonder if there cause there’s no tests available

That will be exactly what it is i feel