CCFC 2018/2019 Accounts Thread!

[Grendel]

Yes we’d have made a loss without player sales , but player sales are a main source of trading income for football clubs. You can’t just ignore them.

I would guess our transfer revenue to other revenue is as high as any club in this league and much higher than most - what is that telling you?

 

[mark82]

The increase in turnover we need to even begin to compete in the Championship is huge, well over 100%, where is that coming from?

It's not, unless we get back to Coventry with access to revenue streams. More bums on seats would be the best way to do it. The prize money and tv money also increases.

In 2018, the basic award + solidarity payment that every club received totalled £6.8 million. Can then expect another £500,000 to £1,000,000 for TV games depending on how many are televised (in 2018 it was 100k to 140k per home game, about 10k for an away game).

We should also be able to get better fees for any players we sell on.

We just need to be sensible and not risk our future to stay up. Being competitive will be avoiding relegation.

 

[speedie87]

I would guess our transfer revenue to other revenue is as high as any club in this league and much higher than most - what is that telling you?

we have a policy of developing young players and are good at it?

 

[Grendel]

we have a policy of developing young players and are good at it?

So why has the master fund had to supply unsecured loans every season for the last 4 years?

 

[tisza]

To a degree, does our business model need us to sell one or two players at peak value on promotion, keep a similar squad to now, and just take the hit of relegation?

Would that actually straighten us out a little financially? Or risk starting the downward spiral again?

Swings and roundabouts.
Have to try and use as much as the squad we have now as possible (and they'd want more money for the Championship).
Recruitment would be a nightmare - possibly able to get better loanees.
But there is the significant increase in selling player value between L1 and Championship.
Mean Championship wages (when relegated PL clubs taken out of the equation) are around 25m a year. average wage jump between the 2 divisions from around 3k per week to 25k per week. TV money doesn't cover that !!! OWNING the Ricoh wouldn't cover that!!!

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Took £1.5m of cash out for interest charges in the year, still plenty accrued, but shows if the money is available it will service the high interest loans.

 

[Nick]

Am I missing something? Why would 2018/2019 accounts show rent at St Andrews?

It isn't confirmed we are there next year so we won't have it as a "commitment" yet surely?

 

[ccfcway]

Interesting reading.

Positive - we made a profit
Negative - next years accounts will be grim reading due to st Andrews attendances

 

[Jcap]

Am I missing something? Why would 2018/2019 accounts show rent at St Andrews?

It isn't confirmed we are there next year so we won't have it as a "commitment" yet surely?

Errr, they wouldn’t

 

[Nick]

Interesting reading.

Positive - we made a profit
Negative - next years accounts will be grim reading due to st Andrews attendances

Not when we sell Godden to Inter Milan for £50m.

 

[mark82]

So why has the master fund had to supply unsecured loans every season for the last 4 years?

That doesn't mean we're not good at developing young players.

 

[shmmeee]

Am I missing something? Why would 2018/2019 accounts show rent at St Andrews?

It isn't confirmed we are there next year so we won't have it as a "commitment" yet surely?

Unless I’m missing something isn’t the future commitment this season if these are last seasons accounts?

 

[mark82]

Not when we sell Godden to Inter Milan for £50m.

That's just the headline figure. It's really just £45m plus add-ons.

 

[Nick]

Unless I’m missing something isn’t the future commitment this season if these are last seasons accounts?

I assume that's fixed leases we are locked into as it says it can't be cancelled. St Andrews is cancellable I think?

 

[shmmeee]

I assume that's fixed leases as it says can't be cancelled. St Andrews is cancellable I think?

I’ll be honest mate I have no idea. These threads may as well be written in Swahili for all I understand.

 

[tisza]

Am I missing something? Why would 2018/2019 accounts show rent at St Andrews?

It isn't confirmed we are there next year so we won't have it as a "commitment" yet surely?

seems a jump to allocate this to st andrews seeing as the deal wasn't done until after this accounting period. Or maybe a deposit? Or maybe associated with Higgs?

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

So why has the master fund had to supply unsecured loans every season for the last 4 years?

Where does that money come from? Is it people that Sisu have convinced to ‘invest’ in the club. If I had money to invest I don’t think I would do it on a club like ours. Who is it who keeps putting in the money that keeps us afloat and why would they do it? If it is Sisu/ Seppala’s own money, why don’t they just sell ?

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I’ll be honest mate I have no idea. These threads may as well be written in Swahili for all I understand.

you should read uhasibu kwa Kompyuta....its a cracker

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Promotion raises a few questions

1) the team would most likely be towards the bottom of the table, an asset in a performing team is generally worth more than a team at the bottom

2) would the likes of Bayliss and McCallum the two main transfer fees this season have got a chance in the Championship? The manager will have to do a very careful balancing act between trying to field a competitive side to stay up and maintaining the policy of fielding young players to sell on

 

[Grendel]

Took £1.5m of cash out for interest charges in the year, still plenty accrued, but shows if the money is available it will service the high interest loans.

That’s the unsecured loans surely?

 

[speedie87]

So why has the master fund had to supply unsecured loans every season for the last 4 years?

Cashflow only. The amount of borrowing went down if you ignore the accrued interest.

 

[stupot07]

I assume that's fixed leases we are locked into as it says it can't be cancelled. St Andrews is cancellable I think?

It has been reported that st Andrew's was cancellable if we were to return to the ricoh early.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Nick]

It has been reported that st Andrew's was cancellable if we were to return to the ricoh early.

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That's probably why it's not in there then, if it was a fixed 3 year thing it would probably have the balance in.

Again, I am no accountant so just trying to apply logic. In the real world it may be different.

 

[Grendel]

That doesn't mean we're not good at developing young players.

Or that we are anything other than a financial basket case

 

[oldskyblue58]

My brief comments are

Good to see the finances looking better however it is entirely based on significant transfer sale money. Can that be achieved every year ?

2019/20 will show significant transfer income so those results should be reasonable too except for a likely downturn in turnover

However look behind the transfer income and it shows a significant increase in the operating costs. Which means the club is not self financing without those transfer fees. That is despite an increase in turnover.

Apparently much of the increase in operating costs is due to promotion to L1, so just how much can we expect those costs to increase with promotion to the Championship?

The directors report and audit report both refer to the ground situation. Personally i cant help thinking that it is preparing for being at St Andrews next year. (and yes they have to do what is necessary to keep the club alive i realise that)

The most interesting pages of the Otium accounts are the last two pages - management information. I cant help thinking those pages were never meant to be published. Tells all and sundry how the cost of operating is arrived at and is never usually published. It has got to be a big error by someone

They have changed auditors from BDO.

To get a break down of the amounts owed to ARVO etc you need to look at the SBS&L accounts. ARVO have had £260k of one of their loans back

All the loans still incur interest, no reason why they shouldnt if the owners choose to,

Otium has assets of £1.7m but liabilities of £21.4m, without support from the owners or player sales the club is insolvent, (same could be said for a lot of clubs)

Wages costs for the whole business show an increase of £450k to £5.3m despite saving £220k in pensions costs

Interest costs have increased from 1.87m to 2.095m

No new loans from the owners in this year

Cash flow shows a decrease in funds available in the bank of 625k year on year. Which further backs up that CCFC have to sell big to survive

Club spent £1m on new players in the year financed by the Maddison & McNulty sales. The rest of the money went on running costs except for £260k (see above). They also spent £114k of equipment

What this basically says is that in L1 CCFC has to sell players to the tune of £4m to simply break even in terms of profit. That even with those profits cash flow has been squeezed

thats my take on it

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Or that we are anything other than a financial basket case

Out of interest, how do our accounts compare to:

The one before we broke the lease on the Ricoh;

The last full season before SISU took over? (Was this one of the ones never published, as the 'accounts were a bit of a mess'?)

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The most interesting pages of the Otium accounts are the last two pages - management information. I cant help thinking those pages were never meant to be published. Tells all and sundry how the cost of operating is arrived at and is never usually published. It has got to be a big error by someone

Forgive my ingrained cynicism or...

an elephant trap?

 

[tisza]

Where does that money come from? Is it people that Sisu have convinced to ‘invest’ in the club. If I had money to invest I don’t think I would do it on a club like ours. Who is it who keeps putting in the money that keeps us afloat and why would they do it? If it is Sisu/ Seppala’s own money, why don’t they just sell ?

That's the rub. Are ARVO simply SISU as no-one can find out the exact structure as they are based in the Cayman Islands but...
ARVO MASTER FUND, LTD - Personal Appointments (free information from Companies House)
then
NEPSSI LLP - Officers (free information from Companies House)

 

[tisza]

Out of interest, how do our accounts compare to:

The one before we broke the lease on the Ricoh;

The last full season before SISU took over? (Was this one of the ones never published, as the 'accounts were a bit of a mess'?)

pick a year then i've got most of them

 

[Nick]

The most interesting pages of the Otium accounts are the last two pages - management information. I cant help thinking those pages were never meant to be published. Tells all and sundry how the cost of operating is arrived at and is never usually published. It has got to be a big error by someone

Wouldn't the auditors have spotted this? It does look a bit random as I have never seen them before.

 

[Gibbo]

We havent we’ve made an operating loss which has increased

While not strictly "operating" in realistic terms transfer income is being treated as such. Doesn't that change the picture?

 

[oldskyblue58]

its not the auditors publishing the accounts on the club website though

 

[fernandopartridge]

Took £1.5m of cash out for interest charges in the year, still plenty accrued, but shows if the money is available it will service the high interest loans.

Yeah I saw that referenced in the club's release on the website, pretty disappointing and certainly not SISU backing Robins with everything they've got, even if it is just a reality of the world

 

[Gibbo]

I would guess our transfer revenue to other revenue is as high as any club in this league and much higher than most - what is that telling you?

Shows we have a better set up than most

 

[oldskyblue58]

employee numbers went up because the number of stewards went up from 209 to 227

in theory non cancellable leases in the future should be disclosed in the accounts so the reader can see what costs a business is committed to next year etc