Grendel
Well-Known Member
I would guess our transfer revenue to other revenue is as high as any club in this league and much higher than most - what is that telling you?
CCFC 2018/2019 Accounts Thread! (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter torchomatic
- Start date
I would guess our transfer revenue to other revenue is as high as any club in this league and much higher than most - what is that telling you?
mark82
Moderator
It's not, unless we get back to Coventry with access to revenue streams. More bums on seats would be the best way to do it. The prize money and tv money also increases.
In 2018, the basic award + solidarity payment that every club received totalled £6.8 million. Can then expect another £500,000 to £1,000,000 for TV games depending on how many are televised (in 2018 it was 100k to 140k per home game, about 10k for an away game).
We should also be able to get better fees for any players we sell on.
We just need to be sensible and not risk our future to stay up. Being competitive will be avoiding relegation.
speedie87
Well-Known Member
we have a policy of developing young players and are good at it?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So why has the master fund had to supply unsecured loans every season for the last 4 years?
tisza
Well-Known Member
Swings and roundabouts.
Have to try and use as much as the squad we have now as possible (and they'd want more money for the Championship).
Recruitment would be a nightmare - possibly able to get better loanees.
But there is the significant increase in selling player value between L1 and Championship.
Mean Championship wages (when relegated PL clubs taken out of the equation) are around 25m a year. average wage jump between the 2 divisions from around 3k per week to 25k per week. TV money doesn't cover that !!! OWNING the Ricoh wouldn't cover that!!!
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
Errr, they wouldn’t
Nick
Administrator
Not when we sell Godden to Inter Milan for £50m.
mark82
Moderator
That doesn't mean we're not good at developing young players.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Unless I’m missing something isn’t the future commitment this season if these are last seasons accounts?
mark82
Moderator
That's just the headline figure. It's really just £45m plus add-ons.
Nick
Administrator
I assume that's fixed leases we are locked into as it says it can't be cancelled. St Andrews is cancellable I think?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I’ll be honest mate I have no idea. These threads may as well be written in Swahili for all I understand.
tisza
Well-Known Member
seems a jump to allocate this to st andrews seeing as the deal wasn't done until after this accounting period. Or maybe a deposit? Or maybe associated with Higgs?
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Where does that money come from? Is it people that Sisu have convinced to ‘invest’ in the club. If I had money to invest I don’t think I would do it on a club like ours. Who is it who keeps putting in the money that keeps us afloat and why would they do it? If it is Sisu/ Seppala’s own money, why don’t they just sell ?
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
you should read uhasibu kwa Kompyuta....its a cracker
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
Promotion raises a few questions
1) the team would most likely be towards the bottom of the table, an asset in a performing team is generally worth more than a team at the bottom
2) would the likes of Bayliss and McCallum the two main transfer fees this season have got a chance in the Championship? The manager will have to do a very careful balancing act between trying to field a competitive side to stay up and maintaining the policy of fielding young players to sell on
1) the team would most likely be towards the bottom of the table, an asset in a performing team is generally worth more than a team at the bottom
2) would the likes of Bayliss and McCallum the two main transfer fees this season have got a chance in the Championship? The manager will have to do a very careful balancing act between trying to field a competitive side to stay up and maintaining the policy of fielding young players to sell on
Grendel
Well-Known Member
That’s the unsecured loans surely?
speedie87
Well-Known Member
Cashflow only. The amount of borrowing went down if you ignore the accrued interest.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
It has been reported that st Andrew's was cancellable if we were to return to the ricoh early.
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Nick
Administrator
That's probably why it's not in there then, if it was a fixed 3 year thing it would probably have the balance in.
Again, I am no accountant so just trying to apply logic. In the real world it may be different.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Or that we are anything other than a financial basket case
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
My brief comments are
Good to see the finances looking better however it is entirely based on significant transfer sale money. Can that be achieved every year ?
2019/20 will show significant transfer income so those results should be reasonable too except for a likely downturn in turnover
However look behind the transfer income and it shows a significant increase in the operating costs. Which means the club is not self financing without those transfer fees. That is despite an increase in turnover.
Apparently much of the increase in operating costs is due to promotion to L1, so just how much can we expect those costs to increase with promotion to the Championship?
The directors report and audit report both refer to the ground situation. Personally i cant help thinking that it is preparing for being at St Andrews next year. (and yes they have to do what is necessary to keep the club alive i realise that)
The most interesting pages of the Otium accounts are the last two pages - management information. I cant help thinking those pages were never meant to be published. Tells all and sundry how the cost of operating is arrived at and is never usually published. It has got to be a big error by someone
They have changed auditors from BDO.
To get a break down of the amounts owed to ARVO etc you need to look at the SBS&L accounts. ARVO have had £260k of one of their loans back
All the loans still incur interest, no reason why they shouldnt if the owners choose to,
Otium has assets of £1.7m but liabilities of £21.4m, without support from the owners or player sales the club is insolvent, (same could be said for a lot of clubs)
Wages costs for the whole business show an increase of £450k to £5.3m despite saving £220k in pensions costs
Interest costs have increased from 1.87m to 2.095m
No new loans from the owners in this year
Cash flow shows a decrease in funds available in the bank of 625k year on year. Which further backs up that CCFC have to sell big to survive
Club spent £1m on new players in the year financed by the Maddison & McNulty sales. The rest of the money went on running costs except for £260k (see above). They also spent £114k of equipment
What this basically says is that in L1 CCFC has to sell players to the tune of £4m to simply break even in terms of profit. That even with those profits cash flow has been squeezed
thats my take on it
Good to see the finances looking better however it is entirely based on significant transfer sale money. Can that be achieved every year ?
2019/20 will show significant transfer income so those results should be reasonable too except for a likely downturn in turnover
However look behind the transfer income and it shows a significant increase in the operating costs. Which means the club is not self financing without those transfer fees. That is despite an increase in turnover.
Apparently much of the increase in operating costs is due to promotion to L1, so just how much can we expect those costs to increase with promotion to the Championship?
The directors report and audit report both refer to the ground situation. Personally i cant help thinking that it is preparing for being at St Andrews next year. (and yes they have to do what is necessary to keep the club alive i realise that)
The most interesting pages of the Otium accounts are the last two pages - management information. I cant help thinking those pages were never meant to be published. Tells all and sundry how the cost of operating is arrived at and is never usually published. It has got to be a big error by someone
They have changed auditors from BDO.
To get a break down of the amounts owed to ARVO etc you need to look at the SBS&L accounts. ARVO have had £260k of one of their loans back
All the loans still incur interest, no reason why they shouldnt if the owners choose to,
Otium has assets of £1.7m but liabilities of £21.4m, without support from the owners or player sales the club is insolvent, (same could be said for a lot of clubs)
Wages costs for the whole business show an increase of £450k to £5.3m despite saving £220k in pensions costs
Interest costs have increased from 1.87m to 2.095m
No new loans from the owners in this year
Cash flow shows a decrease in funds available in the bank of 625k year on year. Which further backs up that CCFC have to sell big to survive
Club spent £1m on new players in the year financed by the Maddison & McNulty sales. The rest of the money went on running costs except for £260k (see above). They also spent £114k of equipment
What this basically says is that in L1 CCFC has to sell players to the tune of £4m to simply break even in terms of profit. That even with those profits cash flow has been squeezed
thats my take on it
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Out of interest, how do our accounts compare to:
The one before we broke the lease on the Ricoh;
The last full season before SISU took over? (Was this one of the ones never published, as the 'accounts were a bit of a mess'?)
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
tisza
Well-Known Member
That's the rub. Are ARVO simply SISU as no-one can find out the exact structure as they are based in the Cayman Islands but...
ARVO MASTER FUND, LTD - Personal Appointments (free information from Companies House)
then
NEPSSI LLP - Officers (free information from Companies House)
tisza
Well-Known Member
pick a year then i've got most of them
Nick
Administrator
Wouldn't the auditors have spotted this? It does look a bit random as I have never seen them before.
Gibbo
Well-Known Member
While not strictly "operating" in realistic terms transfer income is being treated as such. Doesn't that change the picture?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
its not the auditors publishing the accounts on the club website though
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fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Yeah I saw that referenced in the club's release on the website, pretty disappointing and certainly not SISU backing Robins with everything they've got, even if it is just a reality of the world
Gibbo
Well-Known Member
Shows we have a better set up than most
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
employee numbers went up because the number of stewards went up from 209 to 227
in theory non cancellable leases in the future should be disclosed in the accounts so the reader can see what costs a business is committed to next year etc
in theory non cancellable leases in the future should be disclosed in the accounts so the reader can see what costs a business is committed to next year etc
