Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (5 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Nope, but he seems a very poor choice of candidate to go up against Trump.

He cannot be the best Democratic candidate out there surely, can he?

The Democratic voters seem to think so. Is he any worse than most of the candidates/presidents for the last 20 years? (bar Obama who was an anomaly that comes around once a generation.(

The overall quality of politicians everywhere has been shocking since the 90s.

 

---

[clint van damme]

He’s not worse than Trump, that’s nonsense. It’s just Bernie bros spouting alt right talking points again like they did with Clinton.

There’s what? One woman claiming sexual assault from twenty years ago and that’s it. In what way is that worse than Trump?

Nothing do do with the allegations against him. Having a sexual assault allegation against you is pretty much standard in US politics now.
He just comes across really badly. I Think he's a poor communicator.
He's also fairly right wing in some areas (though perhaps not by US standards)
I'm not impressed, though I don't follow US politics as much as I used to.

And by the way, that's my opinion so it can't be nonsense even if it differs from yours.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The Democratic voters seem to think so. Is he any worse than most of the candidates/presidents for the last 20 years? (bar Obama who was an anomaly that comes around once a generation.(

The overall quality of politicians everywhere has been shocking since the 90s.

I would balance that with the age of everyone being an expert apart from at their own jobs and life. It’s a difficult job to lead and there have been some excellent mp’s and others involved in local and national politics. I think pedestal politics is also at play where we expect leaders to be perfect, always make the correct decisions (for correct read what one agrees with) We have become a far more cynical nation and believe far too much in our own abilities that are nowhere as proficient as we believe. We need a new way of leadership where we recognise the good irrespective of where it comes from, understand far more the pressures and expect only what we would expect of ourselves obviously done with the best interests of the electorate in mind but not seeking perfection as we don’t expect that from ourselves

 

[Sick Boy]

America really is a very weird country.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I would balance that with the age of everyone being an expert apart from at their own jobs and life. It’s a difficult job to lead and there have been some excellent mp’s and others involved in local and national politics. I think pedestal politics is also at play where we expect leaders to be perfect, always make the correct decisions (for correct read what one agrees with) We have become a far more cynical nation and believe far too much in our own abilities that are nowhere as proficient as we believe. We need a new way of leadership where we recognise the good irrespective of where it comes from, understand far more the pressures and expect only what we would expect of ourselves obviously done with the best interests of the electorate in mind but not seeking perfection as we don’t expect that from ourselves

I agree to an extent but in many ways I'd prefer it like this than the old class style politics system, whereby everyone would just defer to politicians because of a suit and plummy accent when in reality they were little more able than a reasonably educated common man. You did get seem to get more people going into politics after having a 'normal' job (esp in Labour) then and so certain people could arguably relate to the struggles of the common man compared to the career politicians and PPE (Philosophy, Politics, Economics) grads of today.

So while I think we've got a higher opinion of ourselves politicians have as well - the amount they just dismiss or ignore expert advice. There are a number of massive ego's in politics. I don't think it's unfair for people to expect the people that they vote to run the country on our behalf to be better capable of it than themselves.

For an example of that the alternative is having everyone like Dom. That we question the decisions more may be cynical but IMO is far more preferable than just total deference.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

The lack of quality leadership has been a concern in the UK for donkeys years..... Orwell was slating them all way back in the 1940s...

Probably the battle of Waterloo was won on the playing-fields of Eton, but the opening battles of all subsequent wars have been lost there. One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I agree to an extent but in many ways I'd prefer it like this than the old class style politics system, whereby everyone would just defer to politicians because of a suit and plummy accent when in reality they were little more able than a reasonably educated common man. You did get seem to get more people going into politics after having a 'normal' job (esp in Labour) then and so certain people could arguably relate to the struggles of the common man compared to the career politicians and PPE (Philosophy, Politics, Economics) grads of today.

So while I think we've got a higher opinion of ourselves politicians have as well - the amount they just dismiss or ignore expert advice. There are a number of massive ego's in politics. I don't think it's unfair for people to expect the people that they vote to run the country on our behalf to be better capable of it than themselves.

For an example of that the alternative is having everyone like Dom. That we question the decisions more may be cynical but IMO is far more preferable than just total deference.

I absolutely agree deference is bollocks too and I don’t always get the right balance. I’m including myself in all the negative comments I included in my rant

 

[clint van damme]

The Democratic voters seem to think so. Is he any worse than most of the candidates/presidents for the last 20 years? (bar Obama who was an anomaly that comes around once a generation.(

The overall quality of politicians everywhere has been shocking since the 90s.

The Democrats thought Hilary was a good choice.
A fuck up of gargantuan proportion that paved the way for Trump.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The Democrats thought Hilary was a good choice.
A fuck up of gargantuan proportion that paved the way for Trump.

Possibly, but she should have been capable of beating him. Trouble was she got complacent thinking "I can't lose to the imbecile Trump" and her rallying became more of a 'victory parade' and her demeanour became far too cocky. By the end even I wouldn't have wanted to vote for her.

Biden IMO is worse - similar to Trump in many ways in terms of age, sex, potential skeletons in the closet (though an amateur to Trump) but without the charisma. He will also suffer from Dem's being more likely to scrutinise him whereas Trump's base would vote for him if he went round to their houses and personally killed their families and Rep's are more likely to vote Republican regardless of candidate compared to Dem's. When you add in the gerrymandering etc and electoral college set-up he's got quite a task ahead of him, even if Trump's administration manages to oversee half a million covid deaths.

 

[clint van damme]

Possibly, but she should have been capable of beating him. Trouble was she got complacent thinking "I can't lose to the imbecile Trump" and her rallying became more of a 'victory parade' and her demeanour became far too cocky. By the end even I wouldn't have wanted to vote for her.

Biden IMO is worse - similar to Trump in many ways in terms of age, sex, potential skeletons in the closet (though an amateur to Trump) but without the charisma. He will also suffer from Dem's being more likely to scrutinise him whereas Trump's base would vote for him if he went round to their houses and personally killed their families and Rep's are more likely to vote Republican regardless of candidate compared to Dem's. When you add in the gerrymandering etc and electoral college set-up he's got quite a task ahead of him, even if Trump's administration manages to oversee half a million covid deaths.

I personally think the problem with Clinton is she is just massively hated in the US.
I was in the States not long after Trump won and I spoke to a lot of people about Clinton and there were many who were life long democrat voters who voted Trump because they absolutely despise her, (as you pointed out about Dems above regarding the candidate), I was honestly taken aback by some of the vitriol against her.

Unfortunately that's allowed Trump to get his feet under the table and push the Trump brand, which is what I consider it to be, it isn't a political ideology. Which now means whoever is going to beat him has to have so much more about them than Biden (who I think would probably have beat Trump in 2016 if he'd have stood but obviously understandable that he didn't).

But Trump just seems to get away with murder, as you point out over COVID. Damaging the economy will probably stand against him far more than a large number of deaths.

I'm currently reading the Fuck it list by John Niven and it's set in the future and Trump has had his two terms and Ivanka is POTUS. I could see it happening. Like I said, it's like a brand.

 

[shmmeee]

The Democrats thought Hilary was a good choice.
A fuck up of gargantuan proportion that paved the way for Trump.

Hilary was a good choice. What was your problem with her?

 

[clint van damme]

Hilary was a good choice. What was your problem with her?

from my next post, post 255:
"I personally think the problem with Clinton is she is just massively hated in the US.
I was in the States not long after Trump won and I spoke to a lot of people about Clinton and there were many who were life long democrat voters who voted Trump because they absolutely despise her, (as you pointed out about Dems above regarding the candidate), I was honestly taken aback by some of the vitriol against her."

And it's not what's my problem is with her, it's what's the electorate in the US's problem.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer explains his own reasons why he think she fucked it. He may have a point.
Then of course there was Russian interference which would have been a factor whoever the Democratic candidate was but I think anyone else beats him.

 

[Grendel]

Hilary was a good choice. What was your problem with her?

Other than the fact she’s been up to her neck in corruption scandals for over 40 years along with her dodgy husband absolutely nothing

 

[clint van damme]

Other than the fact she’s been up to her neck in corruption scandals for over 40 years along with her dodgy husband absolutely nothing

and when I started looking into why they hated her, there is a lot of dirt.
However, the same can be said of Trump but it doesn't seem to touch him.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

and when I started looking into why they hated her, there is a lot of dirt.
However, the same can be said of Trump but it doesn't seem to touch him.

That was kind of my point. Clinton may be far from squeaky clean but Trump is another level, following on from his dad.

But as you say it sticks to everyone else but not Teflon Don and I can't work out why.

If you'd said people refused to vote for Clinton because of this and had abstained I could understand. But to then go and vote for Trump instead just undoes all that rationale of didn't want to vote for corruption.

I really do struggle to work out how some people's minds work (or if they even work at all).

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I'm currently reading the Fuck it list by John Niven and it's set in the future and Trump has had his two terms and Ivanka is POTUS. I could see it happening. Like I said, it's like a brand.

More than feasible.

US is well know for creating political dynasties. For a country that's adamantly a republic and doesn't want a king they do go about creating 'royal families' pretty well.

As you say with Trump it's got the added factor of the 'brand'.

Every time I see Barron the Omen music starts playing in my head.

 

[Grendel]

and when I started looking into why they hated her, there is a lot of dirt.
However, the same can be said of Trump but it doesn't seem to touch him.

Trump wasn’t actually a politician then though so he could easily play the card of corrupt establishment politicians against an alternative way. She’s a sitting duck for that

 

[clint van damme]

That was kind of my point. Clinton may be far from squeaky clean but Trump is another level, following on from his dad.

But as you say it sticks to everyone else but not Teflon Don and I can't work out why.

If you'd said people refused to vote for Clinton because of this and had abstained I could understand. But to then go and vote for Trump instead just undoes all that rationale of didn't want to vote for corruption.

I really do struggle to work out how some people's minds work (or if they even work at all).

think Grendels reply is probably as good an explanation as any, though he is very much a politician now:

Trump wasn’t actually a politician then though so he could easily play the card of corrupt establishment politicians against an alternative way. She’s a sitting duck for that

 

[shmmeee]

from my next post, post 255:
"I personally think the problem with Clinton is she is just massively hated in the US.
I was in the States not long after Trump won and I spoke to a lot of people about Clinton and there were many who were life long democrat voters who voted Trump because they absolutely despise her, (as you pointed out about Dems above regarding the candidate), I was honestly taken aback by some of the vitriol against her."

And it's not what's my problem is with her, it's what's the electorate in the US's problem.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer explains his own reasons why he think she fucked it. He may have a point.
Then of course there was Russian interference which would have been a factor whoever the Democratic candidate was but I think anyone else beats him.

Not sure why you think she was massively hated. Her approval ratings seems to have always been pretty good TBH

Hillary Clinton Favorability Timeline | Pew Research Center

There was a lot of shit flung at her, including stuff like PizzaGate and Benghazi which we’re both bollocks, which you’d think if she had actual skeletons they’d have come out instead of alt right conspiracy theories.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Trump wasn’t actually a politician then though so he could easily play the card of corrupt establishment politicians against an alternative way. She’s a sitting duck for that

So a corrupt establishment 'businessman' playing the corrupt establishment politician card? How is that much of an alternative?

 

[David O'Day]

His ratings and the polls are getting worse for him.

Far worse position than 2016 and his fated strong economy is dead.



Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[clint van damme]

Not sure why you think she was massively hated. Her approval ratings seems to have always been pretty good TBH

Hillary Clinton Favorability Timeline | Pew Research Center

There was a lot of shit flung at her, including stuff like PizzaGate and Benghazi which we’re both bollocks, which you’d think if she had actual skeletons they’d have come out instead of alt right conspiracy theories.

I based it on speaking to people in the US when I was there not long after the election as I said in my previous posts, as I repeated, it was news to me.
And there is a lot more dirt on the Clintons than the infowars nonsense. Christopher Hitchens wrote a very critical book about her (them), I don't think him and Alex Jones have much of a crossover audience.
Again, nothing that is any worse than what you could throw at Trump but he seems to geet away with it, probably for the reasons Grendel posted.
She still won the popular vote but really the Democrats should have wiped the floor with Trump.

 

[Grendel]

Hilary Clinton to many in the states would have been like Cherie Blair standing for president here with the ghastly Blair creature lurking in the shadows

 

[skybluetony176]

Hilary Clinton to many in the states would have been like Cherie Blair standing for president here with the ghastly Blair creature lurking in the shadows

Instead we got Boris with the ghastly Cummings creature lurking in the background.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Instead we got Boris with the ghastly Cummings creature lurking in the background.

Boris is a dad again

 

[BodicoteSkyBlue]

Boris is a dad again

Guess he’ll be off on paternity leave ASAP!

 

[skybluetony176]

Boris is a dad again

How many kids from how many baby mamas is that now? If he he was an immigrant most of his fan boys would be losing their shit over his statistics.

 

[chiefdave]

How many kids from how many baby mamas is that now? If he he was an immigrant most of his fan boys would be losing their shit over his statistics.

Heard someone comment on the radio yesterday that it was only a few years ago that having an affair was enough to bring down a PM. Now we've got one whose wikipedia page lists 6 or 7 children!

Isn't he still married to his second wife while being engaged to Symonds and having a kid with her? Although to be fair that seems pretty standard for him, married his second wife 12 days after getting shot of the first and then she had a kid 5 weeks later!

 

[clint van damme]

Boris is a dad again

I'm all out of fucks to give.

 

[Grendel]

I'm all out of fucks to give.

Im sure Boris isn’t

 

[skybluetony176]

Heard someone comment on the radio yesterday that it was only a few years ago that having an affair was enough to bring down a PM. Now we've got one whose wikipedia page lists 6 or 7 children!

Isn't he still married to his second wife while being engaged to Symonds and having a kid with her? Although to be fair that seems pretty standard for him, married his second wife 12 days after getting shot of the first and then she had a kid 5 weeks later!

6 or 7 children from 3 or 4 baby mommas. What is he? An immigrant? Oh wait...

 

[skybluetony176]

Heard someone comment on the radio yesterday that it was only a few years ago that having an affair was enough to bring down a PM. Now we've got one whose wikipedia page lists 6 or 7 children!

Isn't he still married to his second wife while being engaged to Symonds and having a kid with her? Although to be fair that seems pretty standard for him, married his second wife 12 days after getting shot of the first and then she had a kid 5 weeks later!

According to wiki one of his affairs had 2 abortions also. So could have been 8 or 9 children from 4 or 5 baby mommas.

 

[skybluetony176]

Im sure Boris isn’t

It’s probably Cummings’. He does everything else for him after all.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Heard someone comment on the radio yesterday that it was only a few years ago that having an affair was enough to bring down a PM. Now we've got one whose wikipedia page lists 6 or 7 children!

Isn't he still married to his second wife while being engaged to Symonds and having a kid with her? Although to be fair that seems pretty standard for him, married his second wife 12 days after getting shot of the first and then she had a kid 5 weeks later!

tbf, the issue with Major's government in particular was they espoused a certain set of values (Back to Basics) which positively encouraged the press to find out when people were breaking said values.

Since then, we've had, generally, less judgy governments in that respect, so it's meant there's been less to go after.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Im sure Boris isn’t

Lol made me smile