Southampton Poll

[Hobo]

Don't think they did themselves any favours in that game. Shithousery is one thing, but they came across as stinking of bad sportsmanship with it, trying the kid the referee at any opportunity, throwing themselves around (including the goalkeeper knocked to the ground by a tap), just horrible to watch.

When we played at Southampton we got a good preview - didnt we!

 

[Cov. Kids. Never. Quit]

The EFL haven't got the balls to kick them out of the playoffs, but they could hit them in the pockets, don't pay them the parachute payments if they don't get promoted and if they do, suspend the Premier League money for a year.

 

[blunted]

I understand that when Leeds were found guilty of the same offence, the rules were changed to make it illegal to do what Southampton did and become a more serious breach of rules.
Apparently the EFL have evidence that the culprit who is attached to Southampton was at the golf club and are seeing if there is any evidence Southampton did this at other grounds.
The EFL should act quickly (not happening), as if Southampton win, we are potentially in the legal arena where they will contest any decision. That I guess, is why Southampton are trying to delay the investigation by asking for more time.
I am unsure but can the EFL only deduct points from teams taking part in EFL competitions?
Leeds were fined £200k = peanuts.
Southampton have already been up against the EFL Beak over their end of match set to with us.
Think a fine will be the outcome as the EFL are crap.

 

[Grendel]

The EFL haven't got the balls to kick them out of the playoffs, but they could hit them in the pockets, don't pay them the parachute payments if they don't get promoted and if they do, suspend the Premier League money for a year.

I’d love your explanation of how the EFl can take jurisdiction on the PL and determine how they can manage their distribution payments

 

[Lamps]

I understand that when Leeds were found guilty of the same offence, the rules were changed to make it illegal to do what Southampton did and become a more serious breach of rules.
Apparently the EFL have evidence that the culprit who is attached to Southampton was at the golf club and are seeing if there is any evidence Southampton did this at other grounds.
The EFL should act quickly (not happening), as if Southampton win, we are potentially in the legal arena where they will contest any decision. That I guess, is why Southampton are trying to delay the investigation by asking for more time.
I am unsure but can the EFL only deduct points from teams taking part in EFL competitions?
Leeds were fined £200k = peanuts.
Southampton have already been up against the EFL Beak over their end of match set to with us.
Think a fine will be the outcome as the EFL are crap.

It is a more serious breach of the rules than with Leeds, but the punishment wasn't put in black and white.

Southampton admitted the charge of spying against Middlesbrough. I would guess to get the end result that most people seem to want would be would mean it wasn't a one off.

As we saw with Leicester playing the Prem against the EFL they are not compatible. The EFL would have to give the punishment before they become a Prem side or wait until they are in the Championship again.

The problem that the EFL has is litigation is around the corner whatever they do. Could they afford damages of £100m or more?

 

[Skybluedogwood]

I’m happy to be in the minority and say that they shouldn’t

I think it’s disgraceful what they’ve done BUT I think FFP breaches are more serious and how can you only give a 6 point deduction to Lesta for seasons of benefitting from spending more money than someone passing on some info which might make zero difference.

The key take home for EFL is they must now be clear in the rules what the sanctions are for different breaches. That way you have a reference point. They had the opportunity to do this when changing the rule a bit after Leeds were fined £200k for the same breach.

it’s a total mess but you either have to say the whole play off structure has been compromised and promote Millwall or allow Saints to play the final and say that sanctions will be handed down after that has been played.

Zero chance Saints providing quick clarity to EFL over who did what, when and on what instruction, so you get into another legal mess if you do chuck them out. All because rules only work if you set out consequences and what’s been handed down for more serious breaches in the past is too weak but creates precedent

 

[Major Tom]

They sent an analyst to record an opposition team.. who on that day coincidently were rehearsing formation and set piece drills. Ekhart was a club analyst before his current role so he knew exactly what data would be captured and how it would be used.
It stinks, notwithstanding that Boro' blew their opportunity after playing us with poor form.
Southampton need to be punished as cheating of any form cannot be allowed as too much is a stake in the modern game.

 

[Skyblue Bangkok]

They sent an analyst to record an opposition team.. who on that day coincidently were rehearsing formation and set piece drills. Ekhart was a club analyst before his current role so he knew exactly what data would be captured and how it would be used.
It stinks, notwithstanding that Boro' blew their opportunity after playing us with poor form.
Southampton need to be punished as cheating of any form cannot be allowed as too much is a stake in the modern game.

Things is not sure how quickly the EFL can come up with a sanction at this stage. Southampton would have a right of appeal and then go to CAS, all of which will take time. At a guess I think a
fine and maybe points deduction for next season if they are in the Championship or if promoted, points deduction at some stage when they are relegated.

 

[Hobo]

Things is not sure how quickly the EFL can come up with a sanction at this stage. Southampton would have a right of appeal and then go to CAS, all of which will take time. At a guess I think a
fine and maybe points deduction for next season if they are in the Championship or if promoted, points deduction at some stage when they are relegated.

under EFL rules the hearing doesn’t have a right of appeal attached to it.

 

[Gleneagles65]

No, not for me. He stood on a hill near a golf course which overlooked the training ground. It wasn’t like he breached security and trespassed.

If you’re that bothered about people watching you train, then train somewhere more private.

I don’t even know how much of an advantage you can gain. “Conway was good in the rondo today”

So why did they bother doing it if there was no advantage to be gained?

 

[Gint11]

I’m disappointed for Boro. Yes, we took some stick when our wheels came off. ‘This could be a monumental fuck-up’ rang true.

They took the baton and ran with it. Such is life.

Was it down to what Southampton did? If there’s proof that that this snooping was their norm then several teams in the race could be aggrieved. It needs sorting.

Southampton need a punishment for the crime but I don’t blame it on the result. Boro weren’t good enough over 2 games to beat them (I’m not a fan of Southampton after their shenanigans around our away game there)

it’s a bit like teams who blame relegation on a. Bad decision on the last game rather than focus on the fact they didn’t accumulate enough points over the season. Blame everything but the truth.

Fact is this, Boro lost the tie 2-1 on aggregate. They just weren’t good enough.

 

[Milan's hair dye]

Southampton need a punishment for the crime but I don’t blame it on the result. Boro weren’t good enough over 2 games to beat them (I’m not a fan of Southampton after their shenanigans around our away game there)

it’s a bit like teams who blame relegation on a. Bad decision on the last game rather than focus on the fact they didn’t accumulate enough points over the season. Blame everything but the truth.

Fact is this, Boro lost the tie 2-1 on aggregate. They just weren’t good enough.

It could also be argued that Boro had to completely change their tactics for the first game away from what they consider their strongest plays based on what Southampton had illegally learned.. causing them to draw a tie they felt they could win with different set piece play, press and marking tactics.
The whole thing is a mess and one that I'm certain a few teams will be checking over hours of CCTV to add to the can of worms about to be opened.
Spyhampton had been unbeaten in a stupid amount of games it's absolutely mindless to think they didn't have the tactical intelligence to compete with most plays on the day, they had no need to do this. Unless of course, this is part of why they were so prepared for all these games

 

[Gint11]

It could also be argued that Boro had to completely change their tactics for the first game away from what they consider their strongest plays based on what Southampton had illegally learned.. causing them to draw a tie they felt they could win with different set piece play, press and marking tactics.
The whole thing is a mess and one that I'm certain a few teams will be checking over hours of CCTV to add to the can of worms about to be opened.
Spyhampton had been unbeaten in a stupid amount of games it's absolutely mindless to think they didn't have the tactical intelligence to compete with most plays on the day, they had no need to do this. Unless of course, this is part of why they were so prepared for all these games

This is why it’s a mess. What can be proven, what can’t, and how can you prove what impact it has or hasn’t had.

 

[Macca1987]

Changing tactics shouldn't come into it. There is an EFL rule, Southampton broke it, punish them

 

[Cov. Kids. Never. Quit]

I’d love your explanation of how the EFl can take jurisdiction on the PL and determine how they can manage their distribution payments

Nothing wrong with trying to ask.

 

[Shannerz]

This is why it’s a mess. What can be proven, what can’t, and how can you prove what impact it has or hasn’t had.

Impact isn't the issue: it's the fact they did it at all

 

[Gint11]

Impact isn't the issue: it's the fact they did it at all

Yes it is. They’ve broke the rules for one and Boro clearly think it’s had an impact on the tie.

 

[Paxman II]

They are not kicking anyone out!
If they did what happens to Milwall and Boro'? You can't have one go on and the other not? Football is played over a long season and position where you end up is earned. One game with a bit of 'spying' on the enemy has little impact. It's on a par with time wasting on the field of play, faining injury, the ball boy hanging onto the ball! What if Azaz, Boro's former player gave Southampton coaching staff a run down of Boro's methods? Is that illegal? Of course not. Yes a punishment for sure for being silly at best, but not much else tbf. I would think it will cost them a few quid. But make no mistake Southampton are in the final on merit.

 

[Lamps]

Southampton need a punishment for the crime but I don’t blame it on the result. Boro weren’t good enough over 2 games to beat them (I’m not a fan of Southampton after their shenanigans around our away game there)

it’s a bit like teams who blame relegation on a. Bad decision on the last game rather than focus on the fact they didn’t accumulate enough points over the season. Blame everything but the truth.

Fact is this, Boro lost the tie 2-1 on aggregate. They just weren’t good enough.

The problem is Southampton cheated before the tie where Middlesbrough had home advantage. If Middlesbrough had won the first tie by a single goal they would have gone through as the second tie would have been a draw as ET wouldn't have been needed.

I'm not saying Middlesbrough would have won the first tie or the second one would have ended the same either, but it shows how close it was.

 

[Lamps]

They are not kicking anyone out!
If they did what happens to Milwall and Boro'? You can't have one go on and the other not? Football is played over a long season and position where you end up is earned. One game with a bit of 'spying' on the enemy has little impact. It's on a par with time wasting on the field of play, faining injury, the ball boy hanging onto the ball! What if Azaz, Boro's former player gave Southampton coaching staff a run down of Boro's methods? Is that illegal? Of course not. Yes a punishment for sure for being silly at best, but not much else tbf. I would think it will cost them a few quid. But make no mistake Southampton are in the final on merit.

Anything about the final result of the impending case is a guess. All supporters have even been warned about making plans before the result is in.

Millwall? They lost fair and square. No cheating involved.

 

[Northeast sky blue]

I can't believe that they really needed to spy, they should have come on this board and any number of posters could have told them, Middlesbrough are shite

 

[wingy]

This is why it’s a mess. What can be proven, what can’t, and how can you prove what impact it has or hasn’t had.

No room to find that out unfortunately it's a rule and they've broken it?

 

[Shannerz]

Southampton need a punishment for the crime but I don’t blame it on the result. Boro weren’t good enough over 2 games to beat them (I’m not a fan of Southampton after their shenanigans around our away game there)

it’s a bit like teams who blame relegation on a. Bad decision on the last game rather than focus on the fact they didn’t accumulate enough points over the season. Blame everything but the truth.

Fact is this, Boro lost the tie 2-1 on aggregate. They just weren’t good enough.

No they weren't, but that's not relevant.

What's relevant is that Southampton tried to gain an advantage by deliberately breaking the laws of the competition.

How well or badly Middlesbrough played will have no bearing on the outcome.

 

[skyblue025]

They should be kicked out if it's proven they have done it numerous times but won't be. A big fine and a 10 game stadium ban not just touchline for the manager would deter other teams.

 

[Paxman II]

Anything about the final result of the impending case is a guess. All supporters have even been warned about making plans before the result is in.

Millwall? They lost fair and square. No cheating involved.

You miss the point. If one team gets beat the winner goes to the final. The loser misses out.
If Southampton get kicked out then that match must be void. You can’t simple say Boro go to the final. Millwall would have something to say about that. Boto must play an opponent. Perhaps play Millwall for the right to play Hull in the final?


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[SBSid]

You miss the point. If one team gets beat the winner goes to the final. The loser misses out.
If Southampton get kicked out then that match must be void. You can’t simple say Boro go to the final. Millwall would have something to say about that. Boto must play an opponent. Perhaps play Millwall for the right to play Hull in the final?


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Horsham went through to the next round in fa cup after losing 3-0 to Barnsley in 2023, after Barnsley broke rules on player registration.

 

[Shannerz]

You miss the point. If one team gets beat the winner goes to the final. The loser misses out.
If Southampton get kicked out then that match must be void. You can’t simple say Boro go to the final. Millwall would have something to say about that. Boto must play an opponent. Perhaps play Millwall for the right to play Hull in the final?

It wouldn't be voided, it would be forfeit, awarding Middlesbrough a 3-0 victory, and thus a 4-2 win in the tie.

Middlesbrough have played an opponent; the only question is whether the result of the first leg is allowed to stand. There will be no further games other than the final, regardless of anything.

 

[Lamps]

You miss the point. If one team gets beat the winner goes to the final. The loser misses out.
If Southampton get kicked out then that match must be void. You can’t simple say Boro go to the final. Millwall would have something to say about that. Boto must play an opponent. Perhaps play Millwall for the right to play Hull in the final?


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Under what rule would Millwall, who lost to 6th place Hull, be able to make it to the final?

Millwall have as much chance of making it to the final as League 1 side Leicester City.

 

[zuni]

Replay the match

 

[Ellery Cairo's Wig]

My thoughts for what they are worth are that Southampton broke the rules and should be punished. There is apparently some evidence that two other championship clubs have given Middlesbrough details of alleged spying on them by Southampton so this may not be an isolated incident making it all the worse. Cheating seems endemic at Southampton given how their players and coaching staff were behaving during both matches against Cov this season - possibly only Norwich pushed them close for diving, time wasting, badgering the ref and other forms of "gasmesmanship". I think a forfeit of the first leg giving a 3-0 home win would be the right outcome as we do not want two cheating teams contesting the play off final (How Hull have managed to sign so many players during a transfer embargo and not be investigated is ridiculous).

 

[Grendel]

My thoughts for what they are worth are that Southampton broke the rules and should be punished. There is apparently some evidence that two other championship clubs have given Middlesbrough details of alleged spying on them by Southampton so this may not be an isolated incident making it all the worse. Cheating seems endemic at Southampton given how their players and coaching staff were behaving during both matches against Cov this season - possibly only Norwich pushed them close for diving, time wasting, badgering the ref and other forms of "gasmesmanship". I think a forfeit of the first leg giving a 3-0 home win would be the right outcome as we do not want two cheating teams contesting the play off final (How Hull have managed to sign so many players during a transfer embargo and not be investigated is ridiculous).

Hull haven’t cheated

 

[TomRad85]

My thoughts for what they are worth are that Southampton broke the rules and should be punished. There is apparently some evidence that two other championship clubs have given Middlesbrough details of alleged spying on them by Southampton so this may not be an isolated incident making it all the worse. Cheating seems endemic at Southampton given how their players and coaching staff were behaving during both matches against Cov this season - possibly only Norwich pushed them close for diving, time wasting, badgering the ref and other forms of "gasmesmanship". I think a forfeit of the first leg giving a 3-0 home win would be the right outcome as we do not want two cheating teams contesting the play off final (How Hull have managed to sign so many players during a transfer embargo and not be investigated is ridiculous).

Eh? Hull have stayed within the rules of their punishment. Why would they be investigated?

 

[Sick Boy]

My thoughts for what they are worth are that Southampton broke the rules and should be punished. There is apparently some evidence that two other championship clubs have given Middlesbrough details of alleged spying on them by Southampton so this may not be an isolated incident making it all the worse. Cheating seems endemic at Southampton given how their players and coaching staff were behaving during both matches against Cov this season - possibly only Norwich pushed them close for diving, time wasting, badgering the ref and other forms of "gasmesmanship". I think a forfeit of the first leg giving a 3-0 home win would be the right outcome as we do not want two cheating teams contesting the play off final (How Hull have managed to sign so many players during a transfer embargo and not be investigated is ridiculous).

I think the best thing to do at this point is just offer the mighty Boro our place in the PL next season.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

I think the best thing to do at this point is just offer the mighty Boro our place in the PL next season.

It would be the honorable thing to do.

We were told in January that out of all the teams to be promoted they would suit the Prem best after all

 

[Ellery Cairo's Wig]

Hull haven’t cheated

Okay perhaps not actually broke the rules but in a Leicester type way found ways around them. They were enticing players to end their own contracts early to be rewarded with the promise of higher wages in order for them to not break the emabargo rules. Let's not forget they were sponsored by a crypto agency involved in fraud and the media company that owns the club are being investigated for illagal betting ads. This is going off topic so I will shut up now.