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Shamima Begum Not Allowed Back. (11 Viewers)

  • Thread starter pastythegreat
  • Start date Feb 19, 2019
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hill83

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #246
I'm sick of seeing her face in the news.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26, Astute, fellatio_Martinez and 1 other person
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #247
ccfc92 said:
but is there any evidence of an actual crime?
Click to expand...
Then why would we even try to strip citizenship?
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #248
Deleted member 5849 said:
Then why would we even try to strip citizenship?
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know what is best. She clearly has done something, but it's proving it.

Bring her back her and give her life for Treason?
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #249
hill83 said:
I'm sick of seeing her face in the news.
Click to expand...

 
Reactions: Astute, fellatio_Martinez, Sky Blue Pete and 1 other person

hill83

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #250
ccfc92 said:
Click to expand...

 
Reactions: Astute, fellatio_Martinez, Sky Blue Pete and 1 other person

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #251
ccfc92 said:
I honestly don't know what is best. She clearly has done something, but it's proving it.

Bring her back her and give her life for Treason?
Click to expand...

Any crime she committed is in Syria and probably is not possible to prove

Even if you look at the individual over the citizenship issue you can view cases like Patty Hearst who was in the end pardoned I think

The point remains though citizenship is sacred
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, fernandopartridge, clint van damme and 1 other person

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #252
hill83 said:
Click to expand...
Thank God the Jeremy Kyle show was finally taken off air.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #253
Grendel said:
That is not the point - you can’t remove citizenship - it’s dangerous and not democratic
Click to expand...

Didn't she have dual citizenship? In which case one of the countries can remove citizenship.
IMy understanding is it's illegal to leave a person stateless.
I'm glad she has the right to challenge and has been provided with a solicitor, that's what happens in a civilised country. Hopefully the government's actions will be found to be lawful and she becomes some one else's problem. If not we will abide by the courts desicion.

That's what happens in a civilised country.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Deleted member 5849

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #254
SkyBlueDom26 said:
I knew what i was doing at 15, are you acting stupid on purpose?

Not really a child either tbh, more an older teen
Click to expand...

Are you saying you're older than 15? Fuck off, Im not having it.
 
Reactions: ajsccfc, Sky Blue Pete and Deleted member 5849

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #255
clint van damme said:
Didn't she have dual citizenship? In which case one of the countries can remove citizenship.
IMy understanding is it's illegal to leave a person stateless.
I'm glad she has the right to challenge and has been provided with a solicitor, that's what happens in a civilised country. Hopefully the government's actions will be found to be lawful and she becomes some one else's problem. If not we will abide by the courts desicion.

That's what happens in a civilised country.
Click to expand...
Number of people stripped of UK citizenship soars by 600% in a year
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #256
Grendel said:
Number of people stripped of UK citizenship soars by 600% in a year
Click to expand...
I'm 100 percent in agreement with you on your comments re: the sanctity of citizenship. Just thought in this particular instance the government had a case.

People need to see the bigger picture, for the laws and rights that help and protect us all to work properly they have to be extended to everyone. Sometimes that means they help undesirable elements.

Edit: so having read that she is eligible for dual citizenship but doesn't have it so she may have a case
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #257
SkyBlueDom26 said:
I knew what i was doing at 15, are you acting stupid on purpose?

Not really a child either tbh, more an older teen
Click to expand...
A 15 year old is a child in the eyes of the law. Unless you're one of those Adam Johnson defenders
 
Reactions: mark82, Sick Boy and Sky Blue Pete

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #258
shmmeee said:
Fucking state of this post
Click to expand...
If you're disagreeable to it, then it must be ok
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #259
Nick said:
Could give her a cuddle and let her live in your spare room instead?

Could get Ian Huntley round to babysit as well?
Click to expand...
No his punishment was appropriate for murdering 2 schoolchildren as an adult. Can you really not see the difference nick?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #260
ccfc92 said:
I despair at people thinking evil people can be saved and rehabilitated.

There's a difference between repeating what our ancestors did (they used to hang people for stealing a turnip) and dealing with evil people appropriately.
Click to expand...
Where have I said that and do you genuinely believe she is evil ??
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #261
Sky Blue Pete said:
Where have I said that and do you genuinely believe she is evil ??
Click to expand...

Yes. The sob story is, she was a little 15 year old girl, manipulated into going to join ISIS.

In her own words, she saw a severed head within days of arriving and had no emotion to it. Even justifying it by saying it was an enemy of Islam.

It's ironic, your empathy towards her. You'd "turn the other cheek", show compassion. She'd happily see your severed head in a bin as you're a Christian and an enemy of Islam.

(this is purely aimed at hers/ISIS mentality, not all Muslims)
 
Reactions: Astute

fellatio_Martinez

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #262
Allow her back in but make her work in a pork pie factory to show that's she's not a militant Muslim anymore.
 
Reactions: dutchman

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 22, 2019
  • #263
ccfc92 said:
Yes. The sob story is, she was a little 15 year old girl, manipulated into going to join ISIS.

In her own words, she saw a severed head within days of arriving and had no emotion to it. Even justifying it by saying it was an enemy of Islam.

It's ironic, your empathy towards her. You'd "turn the other cheek", show compassion. She'd happily see your severed head in a bin as you're a Christian and an enemy of Islam.

(this is purely aimed at hers/ISIS mentality, not all Muslims)
Click to expand...
It’s not turn the other cheek honestly it’s the rule of law
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #264
Sky Blue Pete said:
No his punishment was appropriate for murdering 2 schoolchildren as an adult. Can you really not see the difference nick?
Click to expand...
How many schoolchildren did Isis murder/rape/enslave?
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #265
ccfc92 said:
(this is purely aimed at hers/ISIS mentality, not all Muslims)
Click to expand...

It says something about the society we live in you felt the need to append that.

Most sane people would take it for granted.

(Not that there's many of those in here).
 
Reactions: ccfc92

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #266
clint van damme said:
Didn't she have dual citizenship? In which case one of the countries can remove citizenship.
IMy understanding is it's illegal to leave a person stateless.
I'm glad she has the right to challenge and has been provided with a solicitor, that's what happens in a civilised country. Hopefully the government's actions will be found to be lawful and she becomes some one else's problem. If not we will abide by the courts desicion.

That's what happens in a civilised country.
Click to expand...
I think she was entitled to it.

I can understand the reasons for doing it but she was born and raised in the UK and the country needs to own its problems and not try to pass them off onto others to deal with.

How old was she when she left? This is clearly something that we need to be dealing with ourselves.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #267
rob9872 said:
If you're disagreeable to it, then it must be ok
Click to expand...

“Killing my habitat and economy to own the Libs.”
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #268
ccfc92 said:
I despair at people thinking evil people can be saved and rehabilitated.

There's a difference between repeating what our ancestors did (they used to hang people for stealing a turnip) and dealing with evil people appropriately.
Click to expand...

“evil people” are you fucking 12?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #269
Sky Blue Pete said:
You’re not trying. Please read in order for us to communicate. 15 year olds are treated differently in law.
Click to expand...
So the last thing she did wrong was when she was 15?

It is like saying a thief was only 15 when he got caught the first time. He might be 19 now but he was only 15 when he started stealing things.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #270
dutchman said:
How many schoolchildren did Isis murder/rape/enslave?
Click to expand...
How many schoolchildren were killed in the British empire over the last 200 years?? You and I aren’t responsible for the civilians killed are we?? Or are we? It’s a fair point that she is vicariously responsible for all of the crimes she supported. I’m not sure it works like that though
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #271
Sky Blue Pete said:
How many schoolchildren were killed in the British empire over the last 200 years?? You and I aren’t responsible for the civilians killed are we?? Or are we? It’s a fair point that she is vicariously responsible for all of the crimes she supported. I’m not sure it works like that though
Click to expand...
So me being British is the same as somebody who has joined Isis?

Are you being for real?
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #272
I thought the clowns were bad enough on the EU Thread, have taken it to another level on this one
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #273
Astute said:
So the last thing she did wrong was when she was 15?

It is like saying a thief was only 15 when he got caught the first time. He might be 19 now but he was only 15 when he started stealing things.
Click to expand...
It’s not the last thing no. And support of an terrorist organisation is a crime! Do you think at 15 it’s possible to be manipulated by powerful groups and advertising and the promise of riches or validity. Look at the grooming gangs? Being 15 changes how she would be treated within the law for good reason. She should be held accountable for her actions not left to rot. I’d have more time for the arguments against if they were purely about money or a deterrent to others rather than because she’s evil. Is it not enough for you to know she’s lost her husband her 3 children and is in a refugee camp? What would be an appropriate punishment? Is it only state sanctioned murder that would suffice?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #274
Nick said:
So me being British is the same as somebody who has joined Isis?

Are you being for real?
Click to expand...
Gosh debating with this black and white mentality is so so difficult. Can we assume that we are all not insane and we are having a reasonable conversation about ideas? No it’s not the same as being British. Someone was saying she was responsible for all the rapes and murders that isis have committed as she chose to go to Syria to support the caliphate. I’m saying that’s daft and pointing out that if she is responsible for their actions surely our country has to take responsibility for some of the atrocities we’ve committed. I don’t think we are and I don’t think she is responsible for others actions. She is responsible for hers. Do you not agree?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #275
All this faux rage cause we’ve found a face to be angry at is so depressing. It’s as if all the shit in our own lives can be laid on her and all seems ok with the world. She was manipulated, thought she was right, suffered enormously for her choices and is asking to exercise her right to return to her country of birth. Surely it’s as simple as that. Fair enough to debate her punishment but let’s not dehumanise her even if she has done that to herself. It demeans each of us
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #276
SkyBlueDom26 said:
I thought the clowns were bad enough on the EU Thread, have taken it to another level on this one
Click to expand...

I know you're a Grendel fan boy so read what he says on the matter. He makes perfect sense.
The citizenship issue isn't about protecting her, it's about protecting the rights of us all.
The fact it helps her is unpalatable, but we have to suck it up, it's a price worth paying to live in a civilised society. If you would prefer ad hoc, retributive justice give Begum a ring and ask for directions to the caliphate, I believe it's something ISIS are good at.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #277
Sky Blue Pete said:
All this faux rage cause we’ve found a face to be angry at is so depressing. It’s as if all the shit in our own lives can be laid on her and all seems ok with the world. She was manipulated, thought she was right, suffered enormously for her choices and is asking to exercise her right to return to her country of birth. Surely it’s as simple as that. Fair enough to debate her punishment but let’s not dehumanise her even if she has done that to herself. It demeans each of us
Click to expand...

She doesn't give a shit!!! Did you not see her interview she showed no fucking remorse!!!!!! Stop talking shite
 
Reactions: Astute

Nick

Administrator
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #278
Sky Blue Pete said:
All this faux rage cause we’ve found a face to be angry at is so depressing. It’s as if all the shit in our own lives can be laid on her and all seems ok with the world. She was manipulated, thought she was right, suffered enormously for her choices and is asking to exercise her right to return to her country of birth. Surely it’s as simple as that. Fair enough to debate her punishment but let’s not dehumanise her even if she has done that to herself. It demeans each of us
Click to expand...

She dehumanised herself the minute she ran away to join ISIS.
 
Reactions: Astute and SkyBlueDom26

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #279
shmmeee said:
“evil people” are you fucking 12?
Click to expand...

How would you describe someone who cuts people's fucking heads off?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Oct 23, 2019
  • #280
ccfc92 said:
How would you describe someone who cuts people's fucking heads off?
Click to expand...

They are just misunderstood.
 
Reactions: ccfc92
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