Shamima Begum Not Allowed Back. (1 Viewer)

[ccfc92]

So me being British is the same as somebody who has joined Isis?

Are you being for real?

It's the typical reply to deflect away from the matter in hand.

Why not include the crusades while we are at it....

 

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[ccfc92]

It’s not the last thing no. And support of an terrorist organisation is a crime! Do you think at 15 it’s possible to be manipulated by powerful groups and advertising and the promise of riches or validity. Look at the grooming gangs? Being 15 changes how she would be treated within the law for good reason. She should be held accountable for her actions not left to rot. I’d have more time for the arguments against if they were purely about money or a deterrent to others rather than because she’s evil. Is it not enough for you to know she’s lost her husband her 3 children and is in a refugee camp? What would be an appropriate punishment? Is it only state sanctioned murder that would suffice?

You're taking the piss right? Fair enough, 3 innocent children died and out of all of this, they're the only ones I have genuine sympathy for.

Her "husband" was an ISIS fighter and she was married to him within a few weeks!

Appropriate punishment would be her come back here and jailed for life for treason, imo.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

You're taking the piss right? Fair enough, 3 innocent children died and out of all of this, they're the only ones I have genuine sympathy for.

Her "husband" was an ISIS fighter and she was married to him within a few weeks!

Appropriate punishment would be her come back here and jailed for life for treason, imo.

Ignore Pete, he enjoys pissing people off talking absolute bollocks to get a reaction

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

She dehumanised herself the minute she ran away to join ISIS.

I said that and I agree but we don’t dehumanise ourselves is what I was saying. What are we for?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

You're taking the piss right? Fair enough, 3 innocent children died and out of all of this, they're the only ones I have genuine sympathy for.

Her "husband" was an ISIS fighter and she was married to him within a few weeks!

Appropriate punishment would be her come back here and jailed for life for treason, imo.

I think I agree with that but would temper how old she was and what she’s actually responsible for herself

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Ignore Pete, he enjoys pissing people off talking absolute bollocks to get a reaction

I am genuinely interested in others opinions. You can just stick with your own with your hands over your eyes and fingers in your ears if you like

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

I am genuinely interested in others opinions. You can just stick with your own with your hands over your eyes and fingers in your ears if you like

 

[Astute]

It’s not the last thing no. And support of an terrorist organisation is a crime! Do you think at 15 it’s possible to be manipulated by powerful groups and advertising and the promise of riches or validity. Look at the grooming gangs? Being 15 changes how she would be treated within the law for good reason. She should be held accountable for her actions not left to rot. I’d have more time for the arguments against if they were purely about money or a deterrent to others rather than because she’s evil. Is it not enough for you to know she’s lost her husband her 3 children and is in a refugee camp? What would be an appropriate punishment? Is it only state sanctioned murder that would suffice?

So you admit that she continued to do things wrong after the age of 15 yet use the age of 15 as an excuse.

Not enough for me for her to be in a refugee camp? What point are you trying to make here? What did I say to make you make this comment?

She is a vile person. She has shown no genuine remorse. She is a liability. I feel sorry for her children but not for her. If the terrorists she was involved with hadn't been defeated she would still be doing exactly the same now. But she got fo7nd out. She got caught. And no sob story will change my mind.

I suppose you would be saying the same if it was one of your family getting beheaded that she celebrated.....

 

[Nick]

I said that and I agree but we don’t dehumanise ourselves is what I was saying. What are we for?

Why would I dehumanise myself because of something the country I was born in did something years ago?

It's a completely different scenario for me choosing to be part of something like that.

 

[ccfc92]

I think I agree with that but would temper how old she was and what she’s actually responsible for herself

She was 15 in Feb 2015, aged 19 in Feb 2019 when she asked to come back.

So that's at least 1 year of being over 18, doing whatever she was doing for ISIS.

 

[Astute]

Why would I dehumanise myself because of something the country I was born in did something years ago?

It's a completely different scenario for me choosing to be part of something like that.

Just shows how weak any argument for bringing terrorists back to the UK is after they leave to become terrorists.

To me someone should be tried where they committed their crimes. Who is the fool for committing crimes where there is worse punishment than here in the UK?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

She dehumanised herself the minute she ran away to join ISIS.

For me the initial decision at 15 to join ISIS when she may well have been impressionable and manipulated could potentially be forgiven.

However after 4 years of seeing what they've done first hand and still not showing any remorse and still seeming to show all the hallmarks of an extremist negates that. Had she been "I've made a terrible mistake and I want to warn others of the dangers of joining and how they manipulate you" she'd be getting a lot more sympathy but she isn't doing that. She doing it to save her own skin because her husband is dead and as a woman under Islamic rule she has virtually no rights and is a second class citizen. The fact that she expects more compassion from those she sees as her enemies than from her own religion should really be a wake up call.

 

[Astute]

For me the initial decision at 15 to join ISIS when she may well have been impressionable and manipulated could potentially be forgiven.

However after 4 years of seeing what they've done first hand and still not showing any remorse and still seeming to show all the hallmarks of an extremist negates that. Had she been "I've made a terrible mistake and I want to warn others of the dangers of joining and how they manipulate you" she'd be getting a lot more sympathy but she isn't doing that. She doing it to save her own skin because her husband is dead and as a woman under Islamic rule she has virtually no rights and is a second class citizen. The fact that she expects more compassion from those she sees as her enemies than from her own religion should really be a wake up call.

Well said. My thoughts exactly.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

How would you describe someone who cuts people's fucking heads off?

She didn’t cut someone’s head off

 

[ccfc92]

She didn’t cut someone’s head off

No, she only stitched suicide vests to people.

Also, allowed to carry an AK, so I am sure she never used it....

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Why would I dehumanise myself because of something the country I was born in did something years ago?

It's a completely different scenario for me choosing to be part of something like that.

Sorry I wasn’t clear we dehumanise ourselves saying she should have a bullet in her head

 

[ccfc92]

For me the initial decision at 15 to join ISIS when she may well have been impressionable and manipulated could potentially be forgiven.

However after 4 years of seeing what they've done first hand and still not showing any remorse and still seeming to show all the hallmarks of an extremist negates that. Had she been "I've made a terrible mistake and I want to warn others of the dangers of joining and how they manipulate you" she'd be getting a lot more sympathy but she isn't doing that. She doing it to save her own skin because her husband is dead and as a woman under Islamic rule she has virtually no rights and is a second class citizen. The fact that she expects more compassion from those she sees as her enemies than from her own religion should really be a wake up call.

Spot on. You'd like to think no one could argue with this, but...

 

[Nick]

Sorry I wasn’t clear we dehumanise ourselves saying she should have a bullet in her head

Really? Maybe we can give her a cuddle, a house and all the benefits of the country she went to plot against?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No, she only stitched suicide vests to people.

Also, allowed to carry an AK, so I am sure she never used it....

Did she? I didn’t know that

 

[clint van damme]

Just shows how weak any argument for bringing terrorists back to the UK is after they leave to become terrorists.

To me someone should be tried where they committed their crimes. Who is the fool for committing crimes where there is worse punishment than here in the UK?

there's a difference between trying someone for their crimes in the country they committed them in, (which I have no problem with), and stripping them of their citizenship which is the issue which has put her back in the news.

 

[Grendel]

Just shows how weak any argument for bringing terrorists back to the UK is after they leave to become terrorists.

To me someone should be tried where they committed their crimes. Who is the fool for committing crimes where there is worse punishment than here in the UK?

It’s not a case of bringing terrorists back it’s a case of not acknowledging the right to return through citizenship revocation

That cannot be allowed - it’s down to the CPS and the courts to decide what crime if any she has committed if she chooses to return - but that’s a choice she has to have

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Really? Maybe we can give her a cuddle, a house and all the benefits of the country she went to plot against?

No it’s not black and white. One can maintain our humanity and expect her to face the consequences for her actions

 

[Astute]

there's a difference between trying someone for their crimes in the country they committed them in, (which I have no problem with), and stripping them of their citizenship which is the issue which has put her back in the news.

So if she got her citizenship back would she stand to trial and if so where?

 

[clint van damme]

So if she got her citizenship back would she stand to trial and if so where?

I've no idea, I don't think it's even clear that she has committed any crime though it's clear she is a wrong 'un, just not comfortable with revoking citizenship in an ad hoc way.
This isn't about protecting her rights, it's about protecting everybody's.

 

[Grendel]

So if she got her citizenship back would she stand to trial and if so where?

That has nothing to do with the main issue.

 

[ccfc92]

Did she? I didn’t know that

Yes, served in the ISIS Morality Police and was known as a strict enforcer.

So basically went around enforcing Sharia Law, so I'm sure she didn't harm a hair on anyone's head...

 

[Grendel]

Yes, served in the ISIS Morality Police and was known as a strict enforcer.

So basically went around enforcing Sharia Law, so I'm sure she didn't harm a hair on anyone's head...

If there is supporting evidence for this then clearly that can be considered in a court of law

 

[ccfc92]

If there is supporting evidence for this then clearly that can be considered in a court of law

Good. Apparently the Met are requesting all media outlets to send them all their interviews etc. so they can build a case against her.

 

[ccfc92]

If there is supporting evidence for this then clearly that can be considered in a court of law

They already have a case surely anyway, because she used her sister's passport to travel I believe? That's identity theft/fraud for starters?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I've no idea, I don't think it's even clear that she has committed any crime though it's clear she is a wrong 'un, just not comfortable with revoking citizenship in an ad hoc way.
This isn't about protecting her rights, it's about protecting everybody's.

If she retained her UK citizenship she'd have joined a terrorist group. Of course again the age thing would crop up, but I'm sure the prosecution would do their best to show she still held extremist views as an adult.

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

We may as well have her back,She’s only a terrorist sympathiser.
Labour have two on there front bench so must be ok?

 

[Grendel]

If she retained her UK citizenship she'd have joined a terrorist group. Of course again the age thing would crop up, but I'm sure the prosecution would do their best to show she still held extremist views as an adult.

I can see why you are in favour of the European Arrest Warrant

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

 

[shmmeee]

Just shows how weak any argument for bringing terrorists back to the UK is after they leave to become terrorists.

To me someone should be tried where they committed their crimes. Who is the fool for committing crimes where there is worse punishment than here in the UK?

You think the Syrian justice system is fully functional right now?

It was on us to not spread our dickheads around the world, we didn’t, it’s on us to clean them up.

 

[Astute]

You think the Syrian justice system is fully functional right now?

It was on us to not spread our dickheads around the world, we didn’t, it’s on us to clean them up.

So let me get this right.

It is up to us now to prosecute those who commit crimes in other countries?

Yet you mention how bad it can be for others if the precedent is set for someone having their UK citizenship taken off them.