Shamima Begum Not Allowed Back. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter pastythegreat
- Start date
rob9872
Well-Known Member
I'm sure the Climate change/Anti Brexit/Peoples vote/Greenpeace/LGBTQ/CND are already working on a support march in aid of welcoming her back. Bloody Tories!
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I still can’t understand why a 15 year old being manipulated and coerced into criminal activity is treated differently in this situation. Is it because she is Muslim? Or cause she’s not white? Is it because she condones or condoned actions that were really very bad? I don’t get it?
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
What are you waffling about now
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Bantssssssssssss
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
tbh a right wing reactionary is more your cup of tea, thankyou very much.
Interesting that many people want Britain to descend to barbarism, to disallow people the opportunity to defend themselves, to refuse to allow a civilised society to be maintained, where people are judged objectively on what their crimes and faults are, rather than a gut feeling that they're a wrong'un. Interesting that so many want a Britain where you do not know if people have committed crimes or not, because it's the power of populism that judges, not the test of evidence.
Personally, I'm proud of a Britain that's strong enough to fight for democratic rights for its people, and does not fall down on them. Shame there are so many who want to regress to the dark age neanderthalism that they claim to hate in others.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Answer the question you’re not stupid
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
If you join the Brexit thread you can have your daily dose for breakfast, lunch, and tea.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Completely agree. To be fair I have far more sympathy for her children and those other children who were recently found in camps who’d been taken by their parents to experience awful things. I just can’t move on from her being 15 when she went.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Nah we've moved on. They're remainiacs now.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Right wing for not wanting someone who joined ISIS to come back into the country, good one m888888, most normal people don't want her back
ajsccfc
Well-Known Member
I made my Twitter timeline a million times better by muting all the Brexity words, guessing I've made the right choice by avoiding the thread here too
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
She shows zero remorse for her actions. She knew what she was doing then, just like she knows what she's doing now.
A "normal" 15 year old, would show remorse as they grew up over things they did at 15, if they didn't know what they were doing.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
No. It was a conscious decision and her age irrelevant, she's a terrorist.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Deluded, it's almost as bad as your obsession with Lee Burge ya fool
rob9872
Well-Known Member
So you have sympathy for the 10 year old killers of Jamie Bulger then? Errr ok.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Just read this in a book I’m reading about forgiveness and justice and from a man interred in a Japanese war camp during ww2 about the war crimes officers being more vengeful than those who had come out of the camps
‘I have so often noticed that the suffering which is most difficult, if not impossible, to forgive is unreal, imagined suffering. There is no power on earth like imagination , and the worst, most obstinate grievances are imagined ones. Let is recognise that there are people and nations who create , with a submerged deliberation, a sense of suffering and of grievance, which enable them to evade those aspects of reality that do not minister to their self importance, personal pride or convenience. These imagined ills enable them to avoid the proper burden that life lays on all of us. Persons who have really suffered at the hands of others do not find it difficult to forgive, nor even to understand the people who caused their suffering. They do not find it difficult to forgive because out of suffering and sorrow truly endured comes an instinctive sense of privilege. Recognition of the creative truth comes in a flash: forgiveness for others, as for ourselves, for we too know not what to do’
‘I have so often noticed that the suffering which is most difficult, if not impossible, to forgive is unreal, imagined suffering. There is no power on earth like imagination , and the worst, most obstinate grievances are imagined ones. Let is recognise that there are people and nations who create , with a submerged deliberation, a sense of suffering and of grievance, which enable them to evade those aspects of reality that do not minister to their self importance, personal pride or convenience. These imagined ills enable them to avoid the proper burden that life lays on all of us. Persons who have really suffered at the hands of others do not find it difficult to forgive, nor even to understand the people who caused their suffering. They do not find it difficult to forgive because out of suffering and sorrow truly endured comes an instinctive sense of privilege. Recognition of the creative truth comes in a flash: forgiveness for others, as for ourselves, for we too know not what to do’
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Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Based on the express or mail? And if she did it would be she’s only saying it so she can come back. She can’t win and to be fair I don’t know her and care little for her I’m just saying to you guys have a shake of your head. She was 15. Culpable but not completely responsible in law as she was a child
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
I knew what i was doing at 15, are you acting stupid on purpose?
Not really a child either tbh, more an older teen
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Empathy. I can’t sympathise as I’ve never murdered a toddler. And yes of course they were younger than the age of criminal responsibility
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
You’re not trying. Please read in order for us to communicate. 15 year olds are treated differently in law.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
You’re not trying. Please read in order for us to communicate. 15 year olds are treated differently in law.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
No, the dead look in her eyes in TV interviews when talking about her involvement with IS.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Wow are you an expert in human responses to trauma too! What would be enough suffering for you? Or your self righteous suffering on behalf of others? Are you with nick you’d like to shoot her dead?? I despair. We haven’t got a chance as human beings we just repeat and repeat the mistakes of our ancestors. And always will
Nick
Administrator
Could give her a cuddle and let her live in your spare room instead?
Could get Ian Huntley round to babysit as well?
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
I despair at people thinking evil people can be saved and rehabilitated.
There's a difference between repeating what our ancestors did (they used to hang people for stealing a turnip) and dealing with evil people appropriately.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Probably supported the "hug a hoody" campaign.
fellatio_Martinez
Well-Known Member
Oh shut up you insufferable, self righteous cock end.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
That is not the point - you can’t remove citizenship - it’s dangerous and not democratic
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
It also, surely, removes the ability to punish her for future crimes, and limits surveillance?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I doubt she will be punished as there will be no evidence - I don’t actually see any benefit of her being in the country but in the end you have to honour citizenship
it’s the same as the European Arrest Warrant but in reverse - in that case citizens can be dumped in a foreign cell with no evidence at the will of a foreign government
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
If she comes back here, can she actually be tried for any crimes? As you said, there is no evidence other than she left to join ISIS, but is there any evidence of an actual crime?
*I suppose theft of someone's passport/travelling under false documents?
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
I meant in the future, should she commit a crime that we wish to punish her for, then the ability for us to prosecute becomes limited if she's not a British citizen. It also limits our ability to ask for help from other nations' intelligence services, as we lose a certain weight of our request if we've washed our hands of her.
In effect, we're feeding her to the extremists, and weakening our defences against them.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Fucking state of this post
