SCG Meeting Notes - 30.10.13 (1 Viewer)

kingharvest

New Member
No sorry this doesn't make any sense! When, What did Fisher present to CCC re the Ricoh and its development..given the Ricoh was already in place. Unless they are talking about surrounding land development.

I don't know what was presented - you're right, clearly the Ricoh is already in place so they must be talking about development. But i haven't seen the presentation so i cna't really help you. Just trying to read between the lines, he could be saying that the other 2 councils buy in to SISU as owners/developers of a stadium and the surrounding developments, commercial opportunities, etc. Where as Martin Reeves didn't.
 

lewys33

Well-Known Member
I don't know what was presented - you're right, clearly the Ricoh is already in place so they must be talking about development. But i haven't seen the presentation so i cna't really help you. Just trying to read between the lines, he could be saying that the other 2 councils buy in to SISU as owners/developers of a stadium and the surrounding developments, commercial opportunities, etc. Where as Martin Reeves didn't.

The comment Tim made there seems quite a grey area to me. Doesn't really specify much.
 

kingharvest

New Member
Plan B
Ann Lucas will consider selling the freehold to Otium. A tenancy agreement just wouldn’t work because of the agreement CCC have with ACL.


I do not understand this. If they buy the freehold then they still have ACL sitting there with a long lease or are they implying that they also want to purchase ACL? I am surprised no-one present questioned this as it's been raised on this Forum several times

Its a good point and wasn't asked. I'll see what i can do to get it answered. Maybe someone else with more knowledge of the legal implications of a deal might know what happens with ACL if the freehold is purchased.

Do you buy out the lease?
Do the club essentially own all of ACL and can therefore do what they want with the company?
 

shy_tall_knight

Well-Known Member
Any stadium that is built even further away form the centre of Cov than the Ricoh is will inconvenience fans and cost more to travel to. Highfield road was an ideal location for Coventry based fans as many could walk to the ground or were a minimum of a 1 bus ride away. Ricoh less could walk top it but there were far more parking spaces. Moving the ground to Baginton - which I think is the only feasible site will massively inconvenience those fans in North Coventry and North Warwickshire not sure it will necessarily grow our fan base in South Warwickshire and South Coventry.

Even if they get it built in 3 years time what state will the club's fanbase be by then ?.
 

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
Who cares. As long as they said "no", eh?

What would you have expected them to say torch, as a business that wanted to maintain their tenant at the Ricoh? Yes, lets help you to move away..?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Exactly that. Your anchor tenant (and their fans) for at least three years or the situation we have now: An empty football stadium.

What would you have expected them to say torch, as a business that wanted to maintain their tenant at the Ricoh? Yes, lets help you to move away..?
 

lewys33

Well-Known Member
Exactly that. Your anchor tenant (and their fans) for at least three years or the situation we have now: An empty football stadium.

Sometimes you come out with a reasonable argument but this I think you are digging yourself a hole pal! Are you saying they should have predicted we would be where we are now, and should have accepted straight away? DAMN YOU ACL!!
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I don't know what was presented - you're right, clearly the Ricoh is already in place so they must be talking about development. But i haven't seen the presentation so i cna't really help you. Just trying to read between the lines, he could be saying that the other 2 councils buy in to SISU as owners/developers of a stadium and the surrounding developments, commercial opportunities, etc. Where as Martin Reeves didn't.

Means nothing. CCC bought into Sisu 6 years ago.
 

lewys33

Well-Known Member
Would you rather 3 years or nothing?

Why are you people missing the point?? Look at the dates ......... We were still at the Ricoh!

If a 3 year deal was offered today and ACL said no then yes, everyone is within their rights to be angry, I would be!
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Interesting about the run-off deal. Nothing has been mentioned by PWKH or AL in her statements. True or not? Over to CCC/ACL to deny, I guess. Good to know that we are closer to a deal than we've ever been. Fingers crossed. From me, at least.

If you owned a bakery would you allow a competitor to use your shop while he built a bakery near by ?
 

Nick

Administrator
Sometimes you come out with a reasonable argument but this I think you are digging yourself a hole pal! Are you saying they should have predicted we would be where we are now, and should have accepted straight away? DAMN YOU ACL!!

To be honest I don't think anybody believed SISU would move the club from the Ricoh (including ACL). They were saying they would move us if they had to.

I am not saying ACL should accept straight away but from that statement it sounds like they straight out refused.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Would you rather 3 years or nothing?

Let's be honest Nick, none of us thought they'd be mental enough to actually move us to Northampton, you can't blame anyone for thinking it was a bluff at the time. Also remember that until the start of the season the location of the GS and Fishers legitimacy was questioned but everyone including the FL. That's what he keeps hiding behind. Someone needs to get a straight answer as to why it's not possible now, not why it didn't happen then.
 

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
Exactly that. Your anchor tenant (and their fans) for at least three years or the situation we have now: An empty football stadium.

But wasn't this mentioned straight after the meeting when Tim agreed the deal on the table, and then reneged on it? Again, thinking of the timing, why would they agree to it then?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
If it meant I'd get three years income then yes.

If you owned a bakery would you allow a competitor to use your shop while he built a bakery near by ?
 

Nick

Administrator
If you owned a bakery would you allow a competitor to use your shop while he built a bakery near by ?

It depends who owned all of the bakers..... They might go and rent somewhere completely different and I'd lose out so I'd much rather see how I could keep them in my shop so they didn't move, especially if I was charging them 4 or 5 times rent for renting a bakery....
 

Nick

Administrator
Why are you people missing the point?? Look at the dates ......... We were still at the Ricoh!

If a 3 year deal was offered today and ACL said no then yes, everyone is within their rights to be angry, I would be!

I know we were, but they were obviously planning things to ask for the run off weren't they?
 

lewys33

Well-Known Member
it depends who owned all of the bakers..... They might go and rent somewhere completely different and i'd lose out so i'd much rather see how i could keep them in my shop so they didn't move, especially if i was charging them 4 or 5 times rent for renting a bakery....

and we all love cake!!
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
How did they? Did they have a say in SISU taking over?

Well, arguably no it was the bank that forced the sale. But IIRC (and someone like NW will be along to prove me wrong) Sisu were the councils favoured buyers after scaring off Manhatten were they not?

The point I was making is it was all sunshine and rainbows in 2007, the reason the council don't trust them is they've worked with them for 6 years. Why would that be different for any other council? We all know Fisher and Seppala spin a good yarn, but can they back it up?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Why would Martin Reeves and Chris West want to listen to a presentation from Fisher about the benefits and economic impact of a multi-purpose stadium. They will already know that as they've already got one!

If they're talking about forming consultation groups now and still looking for ideal sites that to me says they have no site and no stadium plan. Given that 6 months ago Fisher was saying a new stadium within 3 years it would seem we are way behind schedule already.

£25m for a smaller stadium out in the sticks must give a starting point for the offer they make on the Ricoh. It must have to be, at the very least, £25m.

As others have said the bit about needing to own the freehold as a tennacy agreement couldn't work because of ACL makes no sense. A change in ownership of the freehold will have no impact on ACL so the implication is they want to purchase both the freehold and ACL which again raises the issue that if it is truly just above increasing revenues why do they need the freehold.

To be honest there is no way I'm going to believe Fisher when he says everything will go to CCFC. Neither SISU or Fisher have a good track record on being truthful so it will take a lot more than a comment from him to convince me.

Not really sure why he felt the need to mention the short term deal again, just seems like a chance to take a shot at ACL. To be fair to them noone with a valid long term lease agreement such as they one that was in place between ACL and CCFC would rip that up to replace it with a 3 year deal. That makes no business sense at all. SISU would have been better off purchasing the land and showing the plans prior to asking for the short term deal. I feel they would have got a lot more fan support that way and in turn that would have put pressure on ACL to let the club stay in Coventry while a new ground is built.

With regard to signing players did he say why we are still under these restrictions? Are we now in breach of FFP rules?

To be honest every time SISU talk about this new ground it seems like we've gone backwards and is less likley to happen. We're now being presented with the Ricoh as plan B when before it was stated the club had moved on.

As ever actions speak louder than words and this is where SISU seem to struggle. Either make an offer for the Ricoh or get on with building the new ground. Pretty sure everyone is totally bored of talking about hedge funds and politics now.
 

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
Would you rather 3 years or nothing?

Hindsight is wonderful isn't it?

I would rather SISU cleared off, but that's not going to happen either
 

lewys33

Well-Known Member
I know we were, but they were obviously planning things to ask for the run off weren't they?

Maybe. Who knows. At the time they had a long lease, which they were being asked to shorten to 3 years. At that time who would have known we would be where we are now?
 

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
I know we were, but they were obviously planning things to ask for the run off weren't they?

They were planning to liquidate the club too, remember?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Maybe your bakery is a "community asset", Nick. Makes all the difference. If that was the case then the baker considering moving out should feel privileged to be paying an extortionate rent.

It depends who owned all of the bakers..... They might go and rent somewhere completely different and I'd lose out so I'd much rather see how I could keep them in my shop so they didn't move, especially if I was charging them 4 or 5 times rent for renting a bakery....
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
We all would, but no it probably won't happen, so we have to get the best deal for CCFC and for CCC.

Hindsight is wonderful isn't it?

I would rather SISU cleared off, but that's not going to happen either
 

edgy

Well-Known Member
So if its a £20M pound stadium and as previously said it will be modeled on Rotherhams (£20M) that tells us what we are getting.

A 12,000 seater with options later to go to 16,000 and finally 20,000.

Yep, looking through historic averages, that's about right for CCFC.

They were mad enough to take us out if Cov, make no mistake, they are mad enough to build this.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Compared to what? Their current 100% downturn with a very real prospect of losing that tenant altogether.

Short term income but in the long term equals a 50% downturn in business as people now have 2 places to go.
 

Matty_CCFC

New Member
Big turn-out last night including a few new faces. The majority of the meeting was given over to Tim to talk about the on-going situation. I've summarised that below. I had to leave before the end for another appointment. Perhaps Steve or any of the other attendees who are also on here could add anything i missed. We'd moved on to AOB by then so I think i've probably captured the major stuff below. Once the minutes are circulated i'll update you all on anything else that dropped out.

Anyway - to the meeting.

There are 2 plans.

Plan A is to continue pressing ahead to build a new stadium
Plan B is to purchase the freehold of the Ricoh

Plan A
Currently in discussions with 2 other councils and presenting the benefits and economic impact of a multi-purpose stadium. Both those councils instantly see the benefits. The same presentation was made to Martin Reeves and Chris West with regard to the Ricoh and was ignored.

Club want to have a stadium consultation group – made up of fans – who work with the club to ensure new stadium meets wants and needs of fans as much as possible. What is critical is to get the site right. Ideally it will be a large site as the plan is to have the academy next to the stadium. It has to be within 8 miles of Earl Street, although if an absolutely perfect site is found at say 9 miles then he wouldn’t expect the league to block it.

In terms of timescales on what they can tell the fans, once the site is secure then they can go public. Hopefully that will put some fans minds at ease. It was made clear by a few members of the group that until something clear and concrete is in place and announced, fans will continue to be sceptical.

It could take 2 years to get planning permission (COULD!) but only 12 months to build. The build could be about £20m, plus £5m for the land, plus a contingency because construction is nearly always over budget.

Plan B
Ann Lucas will consider selling the freehold to Otium. A tenancy agreement just wouldn’t work because of the agreement CCC have with ACL.

Given the recent developments this is as close as we’ve been so far to negotiating a deal on the freehold. Still tough as CCC usual policy is not to sell freeholds. IF it can be done, great, but we continue with Plan A until then.

Tim expects Joy and Ann to meet within next two weeks and Joy is clear, if the freehold is for sale, she will buy it.

In terms of how it would work, there would be a prop-co and an op-co, which is normal. For example, at Sheffield United The new owner owns the Op-co, and Kevin McCabe (???) owns the Prop-co, but the new owner has option to buy the Prop-co.

Tim was clear though, all revenues, both matchday and non-match day would go to CCFC.

He thinks too much has gone on in public. He thinks now is the time to stop that, and if a deal is there to be done to do it in private – not in the papers.

Short –Term Deal.
A 3 year run-off was proposed to ACL and they dismissed it. This is a company who forced the club into administration, then rejected the CVA costing the club 10 points – so it’s difficult to do business with someone who did that to the club.

Players
Calumn Wilson, Connor Thomas and Cyrus Christie are all in discussion on new deals. Hope to secure all of them.
Steven Pressley is still on 1 in 1 out rule. You’re allowed to do that a limited number of times and we essentially have 4 ‘credits’ left, although Pressley will only do it if it’s right. He’s happy at the moment.

With regard to players leaving in January, the club don’t need to sell. The value of promotion is at least £5m. So unless something silly comes in the club would rather take the risk of getting promotion, than letting someone go for not very much.

Academy
Higgs agreement is nearly done to get back to the Higgs. Hopefully sorted in the next 2 weeks.

Other
Tickets and Retail has been combined – this might be old news – and Stacey will now lead on SCG. They are about to open the new superstore at Gallagher Retail which will increase footfall. Some staff will work from there and they will have players visiting, sell tickets, etc.

Did I hear that some members of this group want to sit in the Boardroom with Timmy?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
So if its a £20M stadium and as previously said it will be modeled on Rotherhams (£20M) that tells us what we are getting.

A 12,000 seater with options later to go to 16,000 and finally 20,000.

16,000 is more than sufficient for the vast majority of games. If their were any sell - outs they could increase ticket prices to match revenues. 20,000 is historically too big.
 

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