SCG Meeting Notes - 30.10.13

kingharvest

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Big turn-out last night including a few new faces. The majority of the meeting was given over to Tim to talk about the on-going situation. I've summarised that below. I had to leave before the end for another appointment. Perhaps Steve or any of the other attendees who are also on here could add anything i missed. We'd moved on to AOB by then so I think i've probably captured the major stuff below. Once the minutes are circulated i'll update you all on anything else that dropped out.

Anyway - to the meeting.

There are 2 plans.

Plan A is to continue pressing ahead to build a new stadium
Plan B is to purchase the freehold of the Ricoh

Plan A
Currently in discussions with 2 other councils and presenting the benefits and economic impact of a multi-purpose stadium. Both those councils instantly see the benefits. The same presentation was made to Martin Reeves and Chris West with regard to the Ricoh and was ignored.

Club want to have a stadium consultation group – made up of fans – who work with the club to ensure new stadium meets wants and needs of fans as much as possible. What is critical is to get the site right. Ideally it will be a large site as the plan is to have the academy next to the stadium. It has to be within 8 miles of Earl Street, although if an absolutely perfect site is found at say 9 miles then he wouldn’t expect the league to block it.

In terms of timescales on what they can tell the fans, once the site is secure then they can go public. Hopefully that will put some fans minds at ease. It was made clear by a few members of the group that until something clear and concrete is in place and announced, fans will continue to be sceptical.

It could take 2 years to get planning permission (COULD!) but only 12 months to build. The build could be about £20m, plus £5m for the land, plus a contingency because construction is nearly always over budget.

Plan B
Ann Lucas will consider selling the freehold to Otium. A tenancy agreement just wouldn’t work because of the agreement CCC have with ACL.

Given the recent developments this is as close as we’ve been so far to negotiating a deal on the freehold. Still tough as CCC usual policy is not to sell freeholds. IF it can be done, great, but we continue with Plan A until then.

Tim expects Joy and Ann to meet within next two weeks and Joy is clear, if the freehold is for sale, she will buy it.

In terms of how it would work, there would be a prop-co and an op-co, which is normal. For example, at Sheffield United The new owner owns the Op-co, and Kevin McCabe (???) owns the Prop-co, but the new owner has option to buy the Prop-co.

Tim was clear though, all revenues, both matchday and non-match day would go to CCFC.

He thinks too much has gone on in public. He thinks now is the time to stop that, and if a deal is there to be done to do it in private – not in the papers.

Short –Term Deal.
A 3 year run-off was proposed to ACL and they dismissed it. This is a company who forced the club into administration, then rejected the CVA costing the club 10 points – so it’s difficult to do business with someone who did that to the club.

Players
Calumn Wilson, Connor Thomas and Cyrus Christie are all in discussion on new deals. Hope to secure all of them.
Steven Pressley is still on 1 in 1 out rule. You’re allowed to do that a limited number of times and we essentially have 4 ‘credits’ left, although Pressley will only do it if it’s right. He’s happy at the moment.

With regard to players leaving in January, the club don’t need to sell. The value of promotion is at least £5m. So unless something silly comes in the club would rather take the risk of getting promotion, than letting someone go for not very much.

Academy
Higgs agreement is nearly done to get back to the Higgs. Hopefully sorted in the next 2 weeks.

Other
Tickets and Retail has been combined – this might be old news – and Stacey will now lead on SCG. They are about to open the new superstore at Gallagher Retail which will increase footfall. Some staff will work from there and they will have players visiting, sell tickets, etc.
 
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sky blue john

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its been about four weeks since the academy has been back at Higgs ?
And they still have no agreement !!!
How the fu ck are they going to buy land and build a stadium or purchase the Ricoh if they can't even get a simple deal done ?
 

bigfatronssba

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First the stadium was within 3 miles of the city centre, then 6, then 8 possibly 9!

If its 9 miles away they might as well stay in Northampton.
 

kingharvest

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First the stadium was within 3 miles of the city centre, then 6, then 8 possibly 9!

If its 9 miles away they might as well stay in Northampton.
They didn't say it was 9 miles - i asked what reassurances we could have on maximum distance from city centre and Tim said it had to be within 8 miles of Earl Street. So anywhere outside the CCC boundaries but within 8 miles.

Someone with a better sense of geography than me can work out where that leaves us.
 

GaryPendrysEyes

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Mar 20, 2011
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Why is the Ricoh and Martin Reeves mentioned under Plan A notes, which doesn't relate to the Ricoh!

Any mention of a paying shirt sponsor?
 

shmmeee

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Jul 11, 2011
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Thanks for the update.

Plan A
Currently in discussions with 2 other councils and presenting the benefits and economic impact of a multi-purpose stadium. Both those councils instantly see the benefits. The same presentation was made to Martin Reeves and Chris West with regard to the Ricoh and was ignored.
What presentation? For development or stating the benefits of a team to the local economy?

Club want to have a stadium consultation group – made up of fans – who work with the club to ensure new stadium meets wants and needs of fans as much as possible.
And what if the fans wants are to have their team play in Coventry? Any reasons given for not looking in the city?

It could take 2 years to get planning permission (COULD!) but only 12 months to build. The build could be about £20m, plus £5m for the land, plus a contingency because construction is nearly always over budget.
For what size stadium? Including academy and everything else? Will the academy be of the same standard as Higgs?

Plan B
Ann Lucas will consider selling the freehold to Otium. A tenancy agreement just wouldn’t work because of the agreement CCC have with ACL.
What does this even mean?


Tim expects Joy and Ann to meet within next two weeks and Joy is clear, if the freehold is for sale, she will buy it.
At any price? If not, what price?

In terms of how it would work, there would be a prop-co and an op-co, which is normal. For example, at Sheffield United The new owner owns the Op-co, and Kevin McCabe (???) owns the Prop-co, but the new owner has option to buy the Prop-co.
So Sisu/Joy would retain ownership even after the club is sold?

Tim was clear though, all revenues, both matchday and non-match day would go to CCFC.
Again, how does this work?


Short –Term Deal.
A 3 year run-off was proposed to ACL and they dismissed it.
When? What was the proposal?

This is a company who forced the club into administration, then rejected the CVA costing the club 10 points – so it’s difficult to do business with someone who did that to the club.
More factual inaccuracies. They've put you trying to bankrupt them, throwing pointless litigation at then and slandering them in the press behind them, maybe you could be as magnanimous?

With regard to players leaving in January, the club don’t need to sell. The value of promotion is at least £5m. So unless something silly comes in the club would rather take the risk of getting promotion, than letting someone go for not very much.
But if we don't get promoted? Fire sale?
 

lewys33

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May 1, 2013
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Plan A is to continue pressing ahead to build a new stadium
Plan B is to purchase the freehold of the Ricoh
(Personally think this is not true)

Plan A
Currently in discussions with 2 other councils and presenting the benefits and economic impact of a multi-purpose stadium. Both those councils instantly see the benefits. The same presentation was made to Martin Reeves and Chris West with regard to the Ricoh and was ignored. (Personally think this is a play on words - not necessarily factually correct or incorrect)

Club want to have a stadium consultation group – made up of fans – who work with the club to ensure new stadium meets wants and needs of fans as much as possible. What is critical is to get the site right. Ideally it will be a large site as the plan is to have the academy next to the stadium. It has to be within 8 miles of Earl Street, although if an absolutely perfect site is found at say 9 miles then he wouldn’t expect the league to block it.
(So are they saying they haven't found the perfect site yet?)

In terms of timescales on what they can tell the fans, once the site is secure then they can go public. Hopefully that will put some fans minds at ease. It was made clear by a few members of the group that until something clear and concrete is in place and announced, fans will continue to be sceptical.

It could take 2 years to get planning permission (COULD!) but only 12 months to build (3 years isn't a bad timescale for the whole thing but 12 months to build is a big ask I think). The build could be about £20m, plus £5m for the land, plus a contingency because construction is nearly always over budget. (If they pay at least £25mill for a new lower capacity stadium what are they prepared to pay for the Ricoh?)

Plan B
Ann Lucas will consider selling the freehold to Otium. A tenancy agreement just wouldn’t work because of the agreement CCC have with ACL.

Given the recent developments this is as close as we’ve been so far to negotiating a deal on the freehold. Still tough as CCC usual policy is not to sell freeholds. IF it can be done, great, but we continue with Plan A until then.

Tim expects Joy and Ann to meet within next two weeks and Joy is clear, if the freehold is for sale, she will buy it.

In terms of how it would work, there would be a prop-co and an op-co, which is normal. For example, at Sheffield United The new owner owns the Op-co, and Kevin McCabe (???) owns the Prop-co, but the new owner has option to buy the Prop-co.

Tim was clear though, all revenues, both matchday and non-match day would go to CCFC. (personally do not think that will be the case)

He thinks too much has gone on in public, with back and forth sniping. He thinks now is the time to stop that, and if a deal is there to be done to do it in private – not in the papers.

Short –Term Deal.
A 3 year run-off was proposed to ACL and they dismissed it. This is a company who forced the club into administration, then rejected the CVA costing the club 10 points – so it’s difficult to do business with someone who did that to the club. Did he seriously suggest that there has been too much sniping and then makes this comment? Words cannot describe ......
 

kingharvest

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Why is the Ricoh and Martin Reeves mentioned under Plan A notes, which doesn't relate to the Ricoh!

Any mention of a paying shirt sponsor?
Because the point Tim Fisher was trying to make is that they mad the same presentation to the 2 councils they are in discussions with as they did to Martin Reeves and Chris West and that the 2 councils accept the benefits/potential economic impact, where as CCC didn't.
 

torchomatic

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Interesting about the run-off deal. Nothing has been mentioned by PWKH or AL in her statements. True or not? Over to CCC/ACL to deny, I guess. Good to know that we are closer to a deal than we've ever been. Fingers crossed. From me, at least.
 

shmmeee

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Because the point Tim Fisher was trying to make is that they mad the same presentation to the 2 councils they are in discussions with as they did to Martin Reeves and Chris West and that the 2 councils accept the benefits/potential economic impact, where as CCC didn't.
When did they make this presentation? Were they proposing developing the Ricoh or threatening to move the club at the time?

Why were they presenting to ACL if all they want is the freehold?

Did anyone actually ask any questions at this thing?
 

kingharvest

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Short –Term Deal.
A 3 year run-off was proposed to ACL and they dismissed it. This is a company who forced the club into administration, then rejected the CVA costing the club 10 points – so it’s difficult to do business with someone who did that to the club. Did he seriously suggest that there has been too much sniping and then makes this comment? Words cannot describe ......
To be fair sniping is my word - but the implication was too much had gone on in public. I'll delete that.
 

lewys33

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May 1, 2013
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To be fair sniping is my word - but the implication was too much had gone on in public. I'll delete that.
Fair enough, but I still don't see why he (and others) keeps going on about it as if it is the reason why negotiating is difficult.
 

Godiva

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Mar 23, 2011
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Interesting about the run-off deal. Nothing has been mentioned by PWKH or AL in her statements. True or not? Over to CCC/ACL to deny, I guess. Good to know that we are closer to a deal than we've ever been. Fingers crossed. From me, at least.
I remember it was said sometimes ago ... before administration. Around February I think.
 

shmmeee

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1. Where in Coventry could it go? Have a think.

2. Since when do they have no choice?
1. Make your mind up which point you're arguing. I don't see a valid site outside the boundaries either, I don't think the entire project is valid when you have a stadium in the city. Call me old fashioned but I like my teams to play in the city they're named after.

2. Since NPPF.
 

kingharvest

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When did they make this presentation? Were they proposing developing the Ricoh or threatening to move the club at the time?

Why were they presenting to ACL if all they want is the freehold?

Did anyone actually ask any questions at this thing?
I thought the 3 year run off proposal was pretty common knowledge - i'd heard it a few times thats why i didn't question it. It was a while ago - i'll look through my notes but might even be as long ago as January. They would present to ACL because a run off deal would mean a tenancy agreement - nothing to do with purchasing the freehold. But with everything that has happened since it appears a short terms deal is beyond possible.
 

Grappa

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Jun 20, 2013
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Interesting about the run-off deal. Nothing has been mentioned by PWKH or AL in her statements. True or not? Over to CCC/ACL to deny, I guess. Good to know that we are closer to a deal than we've ever been. Fingers crossed. From me, at least.
It was in the Trust Q&A:

"24: Did CCFC inform ACL that it intends to move to a new built ground in South Warwickshire

ACL: Yes, Chris West and Paul Harris were advised post 29 January 2013 meeting during a follow up discussion with Tim Fisher, Mark Labovitch and John Clarke, that the Club wanted a three year run off period. This was totally rejected by the ACL representatives. There were no details provided of the location other than “South Warwickshire”, and that it would potentially take three years.
CCFC: Yes but this is very much a Plan B. With modern building techniques a stadium could be built quicker and cheaper than ever. Majority of funding would be done by developer who would benefit from retail, hotel as well as bank lending and CCFC would simply cover any funding gap. This is a feasible option but not CCFC’s preferred course of action – that is reaching agreement and staying at the Ricoh."
 

lewys33

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1. Make your mind up which point you're arguing. I don't see a valid site outside the boundaries either, I don't think the entire project is valid when you have a stadium in the city. Call me old fashioned but I like my teams to play in the city they're named after.


2. Since NPPF.
I don't get what you are trying to say really? The question was asked why can it not be in Coventry. I answered. I don't want a stadium outside of coventry I want the team back at the Ricoh. But the reason it can't be in Coventry is because:

1. SISU wont deal with CCC, nor will CCC deal with SISU (I am talking hypothetically if talks break down over the Ricoh)

2. I can't think of a suitable site within the Coventry border anyway
 

Nick

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It was in the Trust Q&A:

"24: Did CCFC inform ACL that it intends to move to a new built ground in South Warwickshire

ACL: Yes, Chris West and Paul Harris were advised post 29 January 2013 meeting during a follow up discussion with Tim Fisher, Mark Labovitch and John Clarke, that the Club wanted a three year run off period. This was totally rejected by the ACL representatives. There were no details provided of the location other than “South Warwickshire”, and that it would potentially take three years.
CCFC: Yes but this is very much a Plan B. With modern building techniques a stadium could be built quicker and cheaper than ever. Majority of funding would be done by developer who would benefit from retail, hotel as well as bank lending and CCFC would simply cover any funding gap. This is a feasible option but not CCFC’s preferred course of action – that is reaching agreement and staying at the Ricoh."
So ACL straight up refused to talk about a short term deal while a new stadium was built?
 

torchomatic

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Nice one, Grappa. Thanks.

It was in the Trust Q&A:

"24: Did CCFC inform ACL that it intends to move to a new built ground in South Warwickshire

ACL: Yes, Chris West and Paul Harris were advised post 29 January 2013 meeting during a follow up discussion with Tim Fisher, Mark Labovitch and John Clarke, that the Club wanted a three year run off period. This was totally rejected by the ACL representatives. There were no details provided of the location other than “South Warwickshire”, and that it would potentially take three years.
CCFC: Yes but this is very much a Plan B. With modern building techniques a stadium could be built quicker and cheaper than ever. Majority of funding would be done by developer who would benefit from retail, hotel as well as bank lending and CCFC would simply cover any funding gap. This is a feasible option but not CCFC’s preferred course of action – that is reaching agreement and staying at the Ricoh."
 

torchomatic

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Who cares. As long as they said "no", eh?

So this 3 year run off thing was pre-admin? Not really surprised that ACL said no then.
 

SkyBlueCharlie

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Plan B
Ann Lucas will consider selling the freehold to Otium. A tenancy agreement just wouldn’t work because of the agreement CCC have with ACL.


I do not understand this. If they buy the freehold then they still have ACL sitting there with a long lease or are they implying that they also want to purchase ACL? I am surprised no-one present questioned this as it's been raised on this Forum several times
 

GaryPendrysEyes

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Because the point Tim Fisher was trying to make is that they mad the same presentation to the 2 councils they are in discussions with as they did to Martin Reeves and Chris West and that the 2 councils accept the benefits/potential economic impact, where as CCC didn't.
No sorry this doesn't make any sense! When, What did Fisher present to CCC re the Ricoh and its development..given the Ricoh was already in place. Unless they are talking about surrounding land development.

And any news on a paying shirt sponsor?
 

kingharvest

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Jul 18, 2011
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The question was asked by a few people last night as to whether building a new gorund in Coventry was possible - and that if the economic impact was right and the project was valid that CCC would find it hard to reject.

Tim seemed pretty convinced that they would never get permission. You have to say that it would seem totally illogical to allow a 2nd stadium to be built inside the council boundaries. Even if the project stood up economically, the council can put so many blockages in the way that it would just be unviable.

I think - my opinion - the reality is its either the Ricoh or outside the boundaries. If you look at the 2 maps i uploaded there are brownfield sites not far out of the boundary. My worry is how far 8 miles actually is! -

Not far from Solihull to the West
Practically in Nuneaton to the North
Practically in Leamington to the South
Practically in Rugby to the East

Could you accept us playing in Rugby or Leamington?
 

kingharvest

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No sorry this doesn't make any sense! When, What did Fisher present to CCC re the Ricoh and its development..given the Ricoh was already in place. Unless they are talking about surrounding land development.

And any news on a paying shirt sponsor?
oh yeah sorry - question about shirt sponsor wasn't asked as they cleared it up last time. The architects for the new ground - can't remember who they are now (CBBB???) are paying, but rather than having their company name on the shirt they are having charities on it.

so there is a paying sponsor - but they have 'gifted' the publicity to the charity.