Israel - Palestinian Conflict (7 Viewers)

[tisza]

Who are the Muslims going to change their vote too though, Sunak has already fully aligned with Israel

Globally not all Muslims pro-Palestinian. Still factionalism. Not sure it's a voter issue in UK

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

even looking at it from a purely political angle what you are suggesting is political suicide

Starmer would be the only western leader or would be leader to take that stance. He’d be targeted as anti semetic and Corbyn mark 2

He would sell anyone down the river to get elected in this country never mind elsewhere.

 

[duffer]

I agree. I think if there hadn't been pressure behind the scenes Israel would have invaded Gaza and the West Bank by now and possibly made a preemptive strike at Hezbollah. But no Western leader can say this publicly.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but can I offer a possible alternative theory:

Might it suit Israel to delay the ground war whilst they're grinding down any military opposition via endless airstrikes, and simultaneously pressuring an entire population into abandoning their homes? In effect, killing and displacing lots of Palestinians without any great risk to their own forces.

Just to add, I don't think it would necessarily favour Israel to fight on two or even three fronts - the West Bank and Lebanon (Hezbollah) getting involved might not suit them right now.

Again, just mho all this. All I know for sure is that a lot of innocent men, women and children are suffering horribly, and it's going to get worse.

 

[shmmeee]

They’ll avoid a ground war as much as possible. No one wants to go into urban territory with a hostile populous and a group that’s been planning for decades and has thousands of miles of tunnels. I also suspect that would be the trigger for Iran and the like to get involved.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but can I offer a possible alternative theory:

Might it suit Israel to delay the ground war whilst they're grinding down any military opposition via endless airstrikes, and simultaneously pressuring an entire population into abandoning their homes? In effect, killing and displacing lots of Palestinians without any great risk to their own forces.

Just to add, I don't think it would necessarily favour Israel to fight on two or even three fronts - the West Bank and Lebanon (Hezbollah) getting involved might not suit them right now.

Again, just mho all this. All I know for sure is that a lot of innocent men, women and children are suffering horribly, and it's going to get worse.

There's no way of us knowing for sure either way, but I am pretty sure the US and the West generally do not want a major regional conflict, which a ground invasion of Gaza would almost certainly bring. This even risks uniting Iran and Saudi Arabia, which the US has been desperately trying to avoid for decades. We also have the Iranians and Hamas holding joint talks in Russia so the stakes are even higher, although in reality I can't see Russia wanting to get involved yet at least.

A massive Middle East conflict pitting most of the Arab states against Israel is absolutely in no one's interests, least if all Israel. However, Netanyahu is maybe just foolish enough to go ahead regardless. I would be amazed if the West was not trying desperately to restrain him.

On Hezbollah and the West Bank Israel will not feel constrained because of their military capacity and I suspect their calculation is they need pre emptive action. If they leave it these two could explode if the situationgets much worse in Gaza..

 

[wingy]

Just to trivialise things, Celtic match last night.

 

[skybluetony176]

View attachment 32219
Just to trivialise things, Celtic match last night.

Not in the least bit surprised. Mentioned it before on this thread but in Northern Ireland it’s not unusual to see free Gaza posters and signage in catholic areas. I’m not talking about recently either, I’ve seen them as far back as I can remember.

 

[skybluetony176]

Qatar negotiators are saying that they can organise the return of all hostages in return for a ceasefire. Hamas has also just released a statement saying that no more hostages will be returned without a ceasefire. Don’t hold your breath waiting for Israel to agree to it.

 

[duffer]

From Steve Reed, Labour shadow Environment Secretary....

Asked if Labour’s stance on the war will have an electoral impact, Reed added:

I think [it] won’t … and the reason I think that is in politics, you should do the right thing, not the electorally expedient thing.

I'm really sorry, but that's hypocrisy writ large. Large enough to be visible from the moon in fact.

Labour's stance on this (as with many other things) is entirely about electoral expedience.

If there was a choice between doing the right thing and getting another bunch of votes, I'm pretty sure I know which one Starmer would choose.

(Source below)

Khan joins Labour voices calling for Israel-Hamas ceasefire as pressure grows on Starmer – as it happened

Mayor of London Sadiq Khan says ceasefire will help prevent ‘devastating loss of life’

www.theguardian.com

 

[David O'Day]

View attachment 32219
Just to trivialise things, Celtic match last night.

and? Celtic have had a long history of supporting the Palestinian people

It is also pretty offensive to equate support of Palestinian people and their right to live a peaceful life in an unoccupied homeland with supporting the actions of terrorists like hamas

 

[SBT]

and? Celtic have had a long history of supporting the Palestinian people

It is also pretty offensive to equate support of Palestinian people and their right to live a peaceful life in an unoccupied homeland with supporting the actions of terrorists like hamas

I don’t think anyone did make that equation tbf, not on here at least

Is the sincere concern for the Palestinian cause really that widespread among Glaswegian Celtic fans? I know there’s a historic link between Irish and Palestinian activists, but this level of support at a Celtic game is surprising to me.

 

[David O'Day]

I don’t think anyone did make that equation tbf, not on here at least

Is the sincere concern for the Palestinian cause really that widespread among Glaswegian Celtic fans? I know there’s a historic link between Irish and Palestinian activists, but this level of support at a Celtic game is surprising to me.

the flags are there most games, that is a close up tight photo of the green brigade section who usually have these flags, if you zoom out them you would see that they are absent from the rest of the stadium in the most.

it's like deciding all cov fans are one thing based on a close up photo of block 15

 

[SBT]

the flags are there most games, that is a close up tight photo of the green brigade section who usually have these flags, if you zoom out them you would see that they are absent from the rest of the stadium in the most.

it's like deciding all cov fans are one thing based on a close up photo of block 15

Well this is kind of what I’m getting at - is it a genuine concern among Celtic fans more broadly, or just a signifier of identity among a certain group of them?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Wish we could not take sides as a country
Should be so easy to say we’re on the side of a ceasefire and two state solution

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Wish we could not take sides as a country
Should be so easy to say we’re on the side of a ceasefire and two state solution

An ethical foreign policy would be good but geopolitics always gets in the way.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Wish we could not take sides as a country
Should be so easy to say we’re on the side of a ceasefire and two state solution

Don’t we as a country actively support a two state solution already ?

The publicly calling for ceasefire point has been discussed. I’d imagine it’s something encouraged privately but won’t be said in public. What I am surprised about is maybe us/western governments not being more explicit saying whilst we support Israel’s right to defend itself, we hope and expect that every effort is taken to minimise civilian casualties and in allowing for humanitarian aid to get where it needs to

Let’s be honest though, it’s all kind of irrelevant what we or even the EU say, only US could actively push Israel into a different stance

 

[skybluetony176]

Just saw a report that almost 3000 Palestinian children have been killed now with over 800 missing. How much longer can this be allowed to go on by the west under the guise that Israel has the right to defend itself.

 

[duffer]

Don’t we as a country actively support a two state solution already ?

The publicly calling for ceasefire point has been discussed. I’d imagine it’s something encouraged privately but won’t be said in public. What I am surprised about is maybe us/western governments not being more explicit saying whilst we support Israel’s right to defend itself, we hope and expect that every effort is taken to minimise civilian casualties and in allowing for humanitarian aid to get where it needs to

Let’s be honest though, it’s all kind of irrelevant what we or even the EU say, only US could actively push Israel into a different stance

Politely disagree. If we "actively" supported a two state solution, Steve, I don't think we'd be pushing the anti-BDS bill through the commons shortly.

The Tories don't want to move us away from the US or Israel, and Labour don't want to move away from the Tories.

In the meantime, the majority of the country supports a ceasefire, it seems...

Huge majority oppose UK Government policy and support Israel/Hamas ceasefire - poll

A HUGE majority of Brits support a ceasefire in Israel and Palestine, putting them at odds with the UK Government and Labour.

uk.news.yahoo.com

Gove to bring bill banning public bodies from boycotting Israel next week

Exclusive: Bill to be brought for third reading but some Tories say it could heighten community tensions

www.theguardian.com

 

[CCFCSteve]

Politely disagree. If we "actively" supported a two state solution, Steve, I don't think we'd be pushing the anti-BDS bill through the commons shortly.

The Tories don't want to move us away from the US or Israel, and Labour don't want to move away from the Tories.

In the meantime, the majority of the country supports a ceasefire, it seems...

Huge majority oppose UK Government policy and support Israel/Hamas ceasefire - poll

A HUGE majority of Brits support a ceasefire in Israel and Palestine, putting them at odds with the UK Government and Labour.

uk.news.yahoo.com

Gove to bring bill banning public bodies from boycotting Israel next week

Exclusive: Bill to be brought for third reading but some Tories say it could heighten community tensions

www.theguardian.com

Im only basing it on what I’ve heard and read. Just googled it’s and all over government website. One example

Working towards a two-state solution

Statement by Ambassador Barbara Woodward at the Security Council briefing on the Middle East

www.gov.uk

Trying to stop public bodies boycotting Israel doesn’t change our stated position.

 

[Deleted member 7943]

Ours verdict interesting, USA unsurprising, Russia and Ukraine also interesting

 

[shmmeee]

In an ideal world

Ours verdict interesting, USA unsurprising, Russia and Ukraine also interesting View attachment 32222

Looking at it almost all western nations that aren’t gung ho Israel supporters abstained.

The Yanks seem to be tying Israel and Ukraine support together so I imagine that puts them in a bind.

It amazing the political shield around anyone telling Israel to chill out a bit.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Ground offensive started??!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Ours verdict interesting, USA unsurprising, Russia and Ukraine also interesting View attachment 32222

Such a non judgemental question too. Who doesn't want to uphold humanitarian obligations?!?

 

[CCFCSteve]

Ours verdict interesting, USA unsurprising, Russia and Ukraine also interesting View attachment 32222

Hilarious response from Russia considering. We should be voting in favour of that though

 

[stupot07]

I'm really uncomfortable about what Israel are doing. What they suffered with those Hamas terrorist attacks was horrendous and those responsible need to be held accountable for the crimes they have committed. However, Israel's indiscriminate bombing, withholding food and water, and now ground invasion is causing thousands of innocent Palestinian people to be killed.

How many deaths is acceptable? There been an estimated 9600 civilians killed in Ukraine since Feb 2022, there have already been an estimated 7,400 Palestinians and 1,400 Israeli's killed in the last 3 weeks alone.

There needs to be a cease fire.

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[fernandopartridge]

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[Como]

With such massive support from the United Nations now must be the time to send in UN Peacekeepers, a War Crimes Tribunal, Humanitarian support etc. I cannot see Israel/US being able to object.

 

[Otis]

With such massive support from the United Nations now must be the time to send in UN Peacekeepers, a War Crimes Tribunal, Humanitarian support etc. I cannot see Israel/US being able to object.

Israel still seem very angry and vengeful, so I am not so sure on that to be honest. Not on reading the below article.

They really, really should though. Gaza ha been brought to it's knees. Humanitarian aid needs bringing in now as a matter of the most greatest urgency

BBC News - Israel angrily dismisses UN truce resolution on Gaza

Israel angrily dismisses UN truce resolution on Gaza

The UN General Assembly has called for an immediate humanitarian truce between Israel and Hamas.

www.bbc.co.uk

They merely seem to just telling the people of Gaza to move further south

 

[fernandopartridge]

Don't we hate religious fundamentalism?



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[Deleted member 7943]

I've watched some pretty bad videos tonight , I'm not sure what Israel is doing is at all justifiable at this point ...I was on their side to begin with but what they're doing now is pretty horrific .

Feels like gaza will be swallowed up into Israel really doesn't it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I've watched some pretty bad videos tonight , I'm not sure what Israel is doing is at all justifiable at this point ...I was on their side to begin with but what they're doing now is pretty horrific .

Feels like gaza will be swallowed up into Israel really doesn't it

It's what you wanted to happen is it not?

 

[Deleted member 7943]

 

[Deleted member 7943]

 

[Deleted member 7943]

It's what you wanted to happen is it not?

Not at all , and not what I said either

 

[Deleted member 7943]