Freehold of The Arena AND all its surrounds?!?

[Astute]

I was replying to Astute - who laughably "likes" your post - who said that Joy knows nothing about football. I was saying a lot of owners don't.

Even you don't know what you are going on about all the time.

It was Joy herself that said she knows nothing about football. Not a wild guess like some have. I also said IIRC that she does know how to make money for SISU and her investors. She is not in this for CCFC or us fans. She is in it for what she can get out of CCFC, us fans, ACL, CCC and Higgs. And you are one massive idiot if you think anything different.

 

[torchomatic]

Tried that once. Didn't manage to get it.

It's akin to throwing stones at the moon

 

[torchomatic]

I don't think different. Of course SISU are in for it for themselves - where have I said they're not. So are all owners. Look at the debt United are in because of the Glazers. People buy football clubs to make money.

And you’re right, I don’t know what I’m on about sometimes, unlike yourself who apparently is always bang on the money.

Even you don't know what you are going on about all the time.

It was Joy herself that said she knows nothing about football. Not a wild guess like some have. I also said IIRC that she does know how to make money for SISU and her investors. She is not in this for CCFC or us fans. She is in it for what she can get out of CCFC, us fans, ACL, CCC and Higgs. And you are one massive idiot if you think anything different.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Tried that once. Didn't manage to get it.

It's 35 miles further away at Sixfields, you know. It's Fisher's fault you're falling short...

 

[Grendel]

. It's akin to throwing stones at the moon

Beats breaking rocks. I've been doing that all day. Bowl of gruel soon the lights out at 8.

 

[Astute]

Administration is began by a process - it doesn't just happen one day. You don't just wake up and administration pops up out of milk wood.

The only reason it was started was because ACL and the council thought they could boot sisu out and bring Haskell in. They had their administrator ready and waiting. They failed.

You are right. What you need to do is put anything of worth into another section of a company.....like players contracts and anything of value and put everything in that you don't want like contracts and a tax bill. This takes quite a bit of time, although some seem to think it wasn't planned ages ago.

Then when they finally said about the liquidation nobody knew what they were liquidating. Nobody would have outbid SISU for debts and nothing of value......but it took a bit of time for anyone to find out what was being liquidating.

And yet another guesstimate where you accuse CCC/ACL of something without a shread of evidence.

 

[Astute]

I don't think different. Of course SISU are in for it for themselves - where have I said they're not. So are all owners. Look at the debt United are in because of the Glazers. People buy football clubs to make money.

And you’re right, I don’t know what I’m on about sometimes, unlike yourself who apparently is always bang on the money.

At least I admit when I am wrong.

Of course the vast majority of people take over football clubs to make money. Not all do it the right way though......and we have owners trying to do it in the totally wrong way. Or do you agree with the way they are dealing with our club and fans?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Sorry - I missed the question. What was it. About PH4 buying ACL?

Yes please MMM.

 

[torchomatic]

Of course, I don't.

Or do you agree with the way they are dealing with our club and fans?

 

[torchomatic]

Ah, nice one.

It's 35 miles further away at Sixfields, you know. It's Fisher's fault you're falling short...

 

[Astute]

Of course, I don't.

So which part do you disagree with then?

 

[The Prefect]

Administration is began by a process - it doesn't just happen one day. You don't just wake up and administration pops up out of milk wood.

The only reason it was started was because ACL and the council thought they could boot sisu out and bring Haskell in. They had their administrator ready and waiting. They failed.

And I thought the administration process started because the club didn't pay their rent and ACL went to court to recover it.

You learn something every day...

 

[RoboCCFC90]

At least I admit when I am wrong.

Of course the vast majority of people take over football clubs to make money. Not all do it the right way though......and we have owners trying to do it in the totally wrong way. Or do you agree with the way they are dealing with our club and fans?

I think I can speak for Torch and about 99.9% of others who will say it's wrong how Sisu have deal with our Club and fans.

 

[Noggin]

Noggin can you point me to the statement in bold, I did ask MMM but have had no response.

I do not have an issue with what you are saying Noggin as it does seem to make most sense, as we have both said there is a certain way Sisu should go about this and it's not the way they're currently going about it, IMO they need to purchase the Higgs' 50% share in the first instance.

No, I don't know it to be true, its just from the paper talk and rumours. It's also the only thing that makes sense, there is zero chance that ph4's plan was to get the unfettered freehold because he'd have even less chance of doing so than the no chance that sisu have and we know he is a property developer so probably wouldn't want the team on it's own, hence buy acl and the team and there is room to succeed, exactly as sisu should of done.

While I completely agree sisu should have started with buying the higgs share if they were going to they'd have done it already, 5 years ago ideally but when they were in negotiations would have been good too, I don't see it's realistic anymore. I think they must have some plan with the courts, there is no way they can buy the unfettered freehold and it's such a ludicrous suggestion I don't believe that is what they plan, feels like a diversion to make it look like the council who won't play ball and it's clear many are falling for that.

 

[hill83]

I think I can speak for Torch and about 99.9% of others who will say it's wrong how Sisu have deal with our Club and fans.

But you aren't saying SISUE, so you must love them. It's ok.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

But you aren't saying SISUE, so you must love them. It's ok.

LOL! My undying love has been found out!!


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[italiahorse]

Administration is began by a process - it doesn't just happen one day. You don't just wake up and administration pops up out of milk wood.

The only reason it was started was because ACL and the council thought they could boot sisu out and bring Haskell in. They had their administrator ready and waiting. They failed.

Any evidence ? Or just another grenade chucked into the crowd?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

No, I don't know it to be true, its just from the paper talk and rumours. It's also the only thing that makes sense, there is zero chance that ph4's plan was to get the unfettered freehold because he'd have even less chance of doing so than the no chance that sisu have and we know he is a property developer so probably wouldn't want the team on it's own, hence buy acl and the team and there is room to succeed, exactly as sisu should of done.

While I completely agree sisu should have started with buying the higgs share if they were going to they'd have done it already, 5 years ago ideally but when they were in negotiations would have been good too, I don't see it's realistic anymore. I think they must have some plan with the courts, there is no way they can buy the unfettered freehold and it's such a ludicrous suggestion I don't believe that is what they plan, feels like a diversion to make it look like the council who won't play ball and it's clear many are falling for that.

I wish Sisu had purchased the Higgs share even they tried now it would be better than nothing.

I agree to the extent that they must believe they will win the JR, but what can come of it if they succeed?


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[1940 oldfive]

this is the big sticking point paying the market price QUOTE=RoboCCFC90;637684]No there is no clear evidence that suggests that PH4 wanted the Freehold to the Arena, but being a Property Developer then it is right to assume he might of consider it, you say MMM that you have it on record that he stated otherwise I would like to see that if possible? There were rumours at the time PH4 was interested that he wanted to build another Hotel on one of the Car Parks areas. Of course this is a rumour and not a fact, but to do this he would surely need the Freehold?

It is Sisu's clear demand and in my opinion a reasonable one, baring in mind that they pay the market price, something I have never suggested otherwise.

As I stated earlier in the thread Richardson built this Arena with the purpose that the Club could generate revenue from other sources then just the Stadia on match days, it is not unreasonable for Sisu to want this, if they had this it would improve turnover drastically and could allow the playing squad to be enhanced significantly. However you'll tell me next that's all a pipe dream and they want to see us fall like a ton of bricks, right?[/QUOTE]

 

[valiant15]

this is the big sticking point paying the market price QUOTE=RoboCCFC90;637684]No there is no clear evidence that suggests that PH4 wanted the Freehold to the Arena, but being a Property Developer then it is right to assume he might of consider it, you say MMM that you have it on record that he stated otherwise I would like to see that if possible? There were rumours at the time PH4 was interested that he wanted to build another Hotel on one of the Car Parks areas. Of course this is a rumour and not a fact, but to do this he would surely need the Freehold?

It is Sisu's clear demand and in my opinion a reasonable one, baring in mind that they pay the market price, something I have never suggested otherwise.

As I stated earlier in the thread Richardson built this Arena with the purpose that the Club could generate revenue from other sources then just the Stadia on match days, it is not unreasonable for Sisu to want this, if they had this it would improve turnover drastically and could allow the playing squad to be enhanced significantly. However you'll tell me next that's all a pipe dream and they want to see us fall like a ton of bricks, right?

[/QUOTE]

No, they'll milk all the income streams for their investors leaving the club treading water in the lower leagues whilst still charging the club extortionate management fees. I wonder how much rent the club would have to pay sisu for the use of their ground?

No thanks.

 

[martcov]

this is the big sticking point paying the market price QUOTE=RoboCCFC90;637684]No there is no clear evidence that suggests that PH4 wanted the Freehold to the Arena, but being a Property Developer then it is right to assume he might of consider it, you say MMM that you have it on record that he stated otherwise I would like to see that if possible? There were rumours at the time PH4 was interested that he wanted to build another Hotel on one of the Car Parks areas. Of course this is a rumour and not a fact, but to do this he would surely need the Freehold?

It is Sisu's clear demand and in my opinion a reasonable one, baring in mind that they pay the market price, something I have never suggested otherwise.

As I stated earlier in the thread Richardson built this Arena with the purpose that the Club could generate revenue from other sources then just the Stadia on match days, it is not unreasonable for Sisu to want this, if they had this it would improve turnover drastically and could allow the playing squad to be enhanced significantly. However you'll tell me next that's all a pipe dream and they want to see us fall like a ton of bricks, right?

[/QUOTE]

Why would you need the freehold to build a hotel? It would be nice to have it, but a long lease would be an alternative if a freehold were not possible for, say, legal or council policy reasons.

Richardson wanted a stadium with retractable pitch and roof. A 40000 capacity ( 1997 figure ) was, he said, necessary to compete with top Premiere clubs and international teams. He wanted it to be an all year venue, not just dependant on CCFC games. He was entirely right and if it had gone ahead we wouldn't be here ( or rather Northampton ). We all know what happened then. SISU are now suggesting a 12000 stadium to get extra revenues. We all know what will happen.

Yes it is reasonable to want these things, or to want a freehold. But it doesn't necessarily work like that.

The only reasonble way forward is for SISU to come to the table and negotiate. Drop all 'unfettered freehold demands'. Get rid of Labovitch and Fisher, both of whom are hugely discredited. Withdraw the JR. Bring CCFC to the Ricoh on a short term inexpensive lease - similar to that at Northampton. Put the stadium plans on hold. Ask the council to show equal good faith and change the appointees at ACL. Bring lawyers for both sides and go through all known scenarios until both sides can agree on something. Jointly commission an economic impact report to assess the economic benefit to the City of Coventry from a football team - Championship or League 1. Have a joint legal team assess how far the City Council can or cannot go to get a reasonable price after due consideration of the economic benefits and the image value of having a league football team. Have valuations made for the various purchase scenarios.

Above all both sides to work together to acheive a "win win" situation. SISU are the owners and must get something out of this, otherwise we cannot move forward.

In the meantime keep the pressure on through publicising this mess. SISU don't like the limelight as we have seen.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

this is the big sticking point paying the market price QUOTE=RoboCCFC90;637684]No there is no clear evidence that suggests that PH4 wanted the Freehold to the Arena, but being a Property Developer then it is right to assume he might of consider it, you say MMM that you have it on record that he stated otherwise I would like to see that if possible? There were rumours at the time PH4 was interested that he wanted to build another Hotel on one of the Car Parks areas. Of course this is a rumour and not a fact, but to do this he would surely need the Freehold?

It is Sisu's clear demand and in my opinion a reasonable one, baring in mind that they pay the market price, something I have never suggested otherwise.

As I stated earlier in the thread Richardson built this Arena with the purpose that the Club could generate revenue from other sources then just the Stadia on match days, it is not unreasonable for Sisu to want this, if they had this it would improve turnover drastically and could allow the playing squad to be enhanced significantly. However you'll tell me next that's all a pipe dream and they want to see us fall like a ton of bricks, right?

[/QUOTE]

Owning the ground with all its income streams is an aspiration for the club not a divine right. The club may feel that they are entitled to this but do SISU expect it to be handed over on the cheap ? And once SISUE have access to these income streams what makes anyone think they will be for the benefit of the football club FFS they are a hedge fund they need to make a return on their investment and if they can't sell us on for a profit very unlikely will saddle us with a rent as high as the one they disputed was too high.

 

[Como]

Not sure if anybody knows exactly what is meant by unfettered.

The normal definition is that they would see the freehold without any restrictions as to what could be done with it.

I do not know if the title CCC acquired included any restrictions.

For example back in the day many titles were sold with restrictions as to what you could do, for example not selling alcohol.

I have never assumed that it meant buying back the current leases, I always assumed it meant that CCC could not for example say that the ground always had to be used a s a Football Stadium.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

And bring back the topless carwash!!!

I got soaked in that

 

[Grendel]

Any evidence ? Or just another grenade chucked into the crowd?

I think its fairly obvious and is a frequently made comment. Its also why thr trust backed administsruon and, one assumes, the reason sisu threatened them with legal action.

I don't actually see why people bleat and say this isn't true. It's a strategy that was perfectly legitimate for ACL to pursue and had it worked would probably have meant the club stayed at the Ricoh. The problem of course is they got it wrong. That and the subsequent CVA rejection are the real reasons we are no longer in Coventry. ACL tried to be smart. Council run quangos are very rarely smart.

 

[italiahorse]

I think its fairly obvious and is a frequently made comment. Its also why thr trust backed administsruon and, one assumes, the reason sisu threatened them with legal action.

I don't actually see why people bleat and say this isn't true. It's a strategy that was perfectly legitimate for ACL to pursue and had it worked would probably have meant the club stayed at the Ricoh. The problem of course is they got it wrong. That and the subsequent CVA rejection are the real reasons we are no longer in Coventry. ACL tried to be smart. Council run quangos are very rarely smart.

But thats just generalising, what are the facts ?

 

[shy_tall_knight]

I think its fairly obvious and is a frequently made comment. Its also why thr trust backed administsruon and, one assumes, the reason sisu threatened them with legal action.

I don't actually see why people bleat and say this isn't true. It's a strategy that was perfectly legitimate for ACL to pursue and had it worked would probably have meant the club stayed at the Ricoh. The problem of course is they got it wrong. That and the subsequent CVA rejection are the real reasons we are no longer in Coventry. ACL tried to be smart. Council run quangos are very rarely smart.

4 July Sisue agree to play in Northants, 2 Aug ACL reject the CVA-timing indicates that they had made their mind up before the CVA was rejected. Whatever the mistakes of ACL won't be justified by the long term damage and heartache caused by moving to Northants.