Forum Statement on New Stadium Announcement (2 Viewers)

[Ring Of Steel]

And again if it looks like we need it we can quickly add the extra capacity but if we build it as more and we don't need it then it turns into the Ricoh mark 2 and noone wants that. What's wrong with being cautious at the moment, who knows where we will be in 5 years time

Again- modular isn't lego, its not quite that simple. And cautious is smart- but excluding people when demand would clearly be there, not so smart.

 

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[Nick]

Again- modular isn't lego, its not quite that simple. And cautious is smart- but excluding people when demand would clearly be there, not so smart.

So again, let's make sure the demand is ALWAYS there so they have no choice. Rather than just if we get a big cup draw.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Yeah but back in the day there were touts selling Man Utd tickets in the home end?

As it stands at the moment, we are going to be a lower end (hopefully more mid table) Championship club. That's the reality of the situation, if it gets to the point where were are knocking on the door of the Premiership and a sellout every week then it can be the case that upgrading capacity can be looked at.

Safe standing would also be an easy way to increase capacity.

I don't know if you're saying you don't believe me about that game, but look at the West End when Man Utd score. It was horrendous.

 

[Nick]

I don't know if you're saying you don't believe me about that game, but look at the West End when Man Utd score. It was horrendous.

No I am saying it is pointless worrying about things like that just yet.

If we end up playing teams like Man Utd every week then it can be worried about, surely?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

So again, let's make sure the demand is ALWAYS there so they have no choice. Rather than just if we get a big cup draw.

Ensuring that is down to the owners. And assuming they do indeed intend to maintain progress & beyond its a little puzzling as to why they'd be planning to build so small.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

So again, let's make sure the demand is ALWAYS there so they have no choice. Rather than just if we get a big cup draw.

By making it too small so we cut our nose off to spite our face and screw over fans?

Another thing to remember is that it's not just "games we would sell out" but how much by: games against Leeds when we were in good form got 27-28k. If you're shutting out 7-10k fans a few times a season you're losing money as well as disappointing fans.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

No I am saying it is pointless worrying about things like that just yet.

If we end up playing teams like Man Utd every week then it can be worried about, surely?

It would be a nice problem. That day was awful.

 

[Nick]

Ensuring that is down to the owners. And assuming they do indeed intend to maintain progress & beyond its a little puzzling as to why they'd be planning to build so small.

Not buying that. It's down to the people who sing "City till I die" but turn up when we play a big name or there is a bandwagon.

 

[mr_monkey]

Again- modular isn't lego, its not quite that simple. And cautious is smart- but excluding people when demand would clearly be there, not so smart.

But there is no proof the demand is there mate, I'm sure if we go back to the Ricoh for the next 5 years and the attendances are 18k plus every week then they will reconsider the capacity whilst it's being built and add more size on but 18-20k is perfect for where we are right now

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Ensuring that is down to the owners. And assuming they do indeed intend to maintain progress & beyond its a little puzzling as to why they'd be planning to build so small.

Absolutely. This is an announcement you make when you're in L2, not in The Championship with fans excited at seeing a superb team and dreaming of top flight football again within our lifetimes.

Anyway, I'll stop arguing in circles now and leave you with my final point: this forum is not entirely in favour of this announcement, so shouldn't be making statements saying it is.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Not buying that. It's down to the people who sing "City till I die" but turn up when we play a big name or there is a bandwagon.

Yes but thats not about who sings songs. Every club in every city has the same situation. Success= more support. People can sing what they want but when you get down to brass tacks the only thing that encourages people to come to every game is the realistic expectation that their team will win and play well. Something we didn't have for many years.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

right since we were relegated what was our average attendance?

there was a new stadium bounce, but there’s no point rattling around in an empty stadium. 20k is good - possibly 22k. Review at the end of each season?

we’re grossly overestimating our support, in one of our most important games in years (Notts country play off at home - didn’t we get 15k?)

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Ensuring that is down to the owners. And assuming they do indeed intend to maintain progress & beyond its a little puzzling as to why they'd be planning to build so small.

I have missed the beginning of this, but it does seem like you're arguing over small (proportionately!) numbers.

Personally, I'd be happy with 20k to get a stadium up and running, *as long as* we were looking ASAP to hit 24k, and aim for 28k in the medium-long term.

Falmer started at 22.5k, and I'd have them as maybe a benchmark. 18k is too small, 20k is on the low end of acceptable, 24k high end of the Brighton model.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Absolutely. This is an announcement you make when you're in L2, not in The Championship with fans excited at seeing a superb team and dreaming of top flight football again within our lifetimes.

Anyway, I'll stop arguing in circles now and leave you with my final point: this forum is not entirely in favour of this announcement, so shouldn't be making statements saying it is.

I agree with you- everyone wants the best thing though so I'm all good with it, these kinds of arguments are at least a huge step forward from arguing about who is going to Northampton. Just a small spike on an upward line hopefully.

 

[mr_monkey]

Absolutely. This is an announcement you make when you're in L2, not in The Championship with fans excited at seeing a superb team and dreaming of top flight football again within our lifetimes.

Anyway, I'll stop arguing in circles now and leave you with my final point: this forum is not entirely in favour of this announcement, so shouldn't be making statements saying it is.

18k in league 2, Jesus mate

 

[Nick]

right since we were relegated what was our average attendance?

there was a new stadium bounce, but there’s no point rattling around in an empty stadium. 20k is good - possibly 22k. Review at the end of each season?

we’re grossly overestimating our support, in one of our most important games in years (Notts country play off at home - didn’t we get 15k?)

People are basing it on Chelsea at home or Wembley.

How many did we get for the Checkatrade Semi final against Wycombe?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I have missed the beginning of this, but it does seem like you're arguing over small (proportionately!) numbers.

Personally, I'd be happy with 20k to get a stadium up and running, *as long as* we were looking ASAP to hit 24k, and aim for 28k in the medium-long term.

Falmer started at 22.5k, and I'd have them as maybe a benchmark. 18k is too small, 20k is on the low end of acceptable, 24k high end of the Brighton model.

This is the main thing- call me cynical of our owners but I have no faith at all that we'd make those next steps and increase even if it was clear demand was there. I'd rather have 24k now and make do with that for the next x yrs than have 18k with vague promises that then never happen.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

right since we were relegated what was our average attendance?

there was a new stadium bounce, but there’s no point rattling around in an empty stadium. 20k is good - possibly 22k. Review at the end of each season?

we’re grossly overestimating our support, in one of our most important games in years (Notts country play off at home - didn’t we get 15k?)

But I am saying 20k home seats- what exactly is this argument about now? From what I can tell someone is going around saying we need a huge amphitheatre, but I can't see that being proposed here?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

right since we were relegated what was our average attendance?

there was a new stadium bounce, but there’s no point rattling around in an empty stadium. 20k is good - possibly 22k. Review at the end of each season?

we’re grossly overestimating our support, in one of our most important games in years (Notts country play off at home - didn’t we get 15k?)

Sunderland had 20,000+ empty seats for their playoff game v Portsmouth, not sure what that demonstrates.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Sunderland have history of 35k to 40k crowds - justifies their stadium.

we rarely get over 18k... hence the reason for an 18-20k stadium

 

[Ring Of Steel]

But there is no proof the demand is there mate, I'm sure if we go back to the Ricoh for the next 5 years and the attendances are 18k plus every week then they will reconsider the capacity whilst it's being built and add more size on but 18-20k is perfect for where we are right now

This is what I am hoping I guess- there is a long way to go on this assuming it actually happens, between now and then I just hope they make a slightly more realistic assessment of what support would be assuming we're a well established Championship club by then.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

This is the main thing- call me cynical of our owners but I have no faith at all that we'd make those next steps and increase even if it was clear demand was there. I'd rather have 24k now and make do with that for the next x yrs than have 18k with vague promises that then never happen.

I suppose the next question would be if our own ground at 18k and a club in the Championship would be saleable enough for SISU, then.

I dunno, it depends who their backers really are, and what they want, doesn't it? To me, it boils down to whatever the ground is. Falmer's the benchmark I'd set, a decent ground that blends into its landscape, and could be increased as and when needed. If, however, we got cheapy flat-pack, then all bets are off.

I do also get the logic of making tickets something in demand, so season ticket sales increase rather than people waiting until the last minute to walk up (or not!) as they know full well they'll always get the ticket.

It is also progress from the initial fantasy stadium I suppose. Design: Coventry City Stadium – StadiumDB.com

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Sunderland have history of 35k to 40k crowds - justifies their stadium.

we rarely get over 18k... hence the reason for an 18-20k stadium

Since they built their ground they had 15 seasons in the Prem, 3 championships, then when they dropped to div 1 they lost about 40% of their support, Again, just shows that no matter what the start point, aside from a handful of clubs its success that brings the fans out.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I suppose the next question would be if our own ground at 18k and a club in the Championship would be saleable enough for SISU, then.

I dunno, it depends who their backers really are, and what they want, doesn't it? To me, it boils down to whatever the ground is. Falmer's the benchmark I'd set, a decent ground that blends into its landscape, and could be increased as and when needed. If, however, we got cheapy flat-pack, then all bets are off.

I do also get the logic of making tickets something in demand, so season ticket sales increase rather than people waiting until the last minute to walk up (or not!) as they know full well they'll always get the ticket.

It is also progress from the initial fantasy stadium I suppose. Design: Coventry City Stadium – StadiumDB.com

Thats my horrible suspicion- the only thing we have to go on is an apparent admiration for Shrewsbury's ground & a few comments about Fisher loving Rotherham's stadium. I am basically worried that we are going to end up with an extremely functional & cost effective ground thats also total rubbish, and does not reflect who we are and who we want to be- and who the owners themselves have said they want us to be.

 

[mr_monkey]

This is what I am hoping I guess- there is a long way to go on this assuming it actually happens, between now and then I just hope they make a slightly more realistic assessment of what support would be assuming we're a well established Championship club by then.

I agee 100%, for all their faults in the past I think sisu have finally got their head around the running of a football club... if it comes to say 3 years time and we have established ourselves as a championship team then they would be idiots not to look at adding more which is the joy of the modular build as it can be increased with relative ease and with the partnership with the uni I reckon they would press for the this as well.... The flip side is of course if things go to shit and find ourselves in league 2 in 3 years time then 18k is more than enough

If they hadn't specifically mentioned the modular aspects then I would have similar concerns as you but personally I think they are doing it the right way

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I agee 100%, for all their faults in the past I think sisu have finally got their head around the running of a football club... if it comes to say 3 years time and we have established ourselves as a championship team then they would be idiots not to look at adding more which is the joy of the modular build as it can be increased with relative ease and with the partnership with the uni I reckon they would press for the this as well.... The flip side is of course if things go to shit and find ourselves in league 2 in 3 years time then 18k is more than enough

If they hadn't specifically mentioned the modular aspects then I would have similar concerns as you but personally I think they are doing it the right way

thats all fair enough.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Thats my horrible suspicion- the only thing we have to go on is an apparent admiration for Shrewsbury's ground & a few comments about Fisher loving Rotherham's stadium. I am basically worried that we are going to end up with an extremely functional & cost effective ground thats also total rubbish, and does not reflect who we are and who we want to be- and who the owners themselves have said they want us to be.

Well don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not expecting it to be delivered! If they do end up with our own Falmer, then even I might be prepared to forgive SISU just about everything.

First stage is actually getting something concrete down beyond a statement though really. Give me our own Falmer anyday. Give me some of the others no day of the week. The other fear, of course, is we end up with a Withdean disguised by flashy facades, waiting for the Ricoh to become available... although I suppose that's better than the current circumstance!

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Well don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not expecting it to be delivered! If they do end up with our own Falmer, then even I might be prepared to forgive SISU just about everything.

First stage is actually getting something concrete down beyond a statement though really. Give me our own Falmer anyday. Give me some of the others no day of the week. The other fear, of course, is we end up with a Withdean disguised by flashy facades, waiting for the Ricoh to become available... although I suppose that's better than the current circumstance!

That does have to be borne in mind, these are at least very much 'First World Problems' when you look back at the last decade or so.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Absolutely. This is an announcement you make when you're in L2, not in The Championship with fans excited at seeing a superb team and dreaming of top flight football again within our lifetimes.

Anyway, I'll stop arguing in circles now and leave you with my final point: this forum is not entirely in favour of this announcement, so shouldn't be making statements saying it is.

Which part of the statement did you disagree with? The statement wasn’t entirely in favour of the announcement as I’m sure you read.

This is slowly building up respect and trust both ways. Not let bygones be bygones or water under the bridge but you said this what’s happening.

I think it’s perfectly legitimate to go back to Ccfc and Sisu and say what is the cost difference between 18 and 25k seats and to explain why 25k should be the plan and to expect an answer.

I fear your frustrated at the statement is more about you not having 1% of an expectation that it’s going to happen rather than the size of the capacity but I may be wrong

 

[samccov1987]

Been looking at the new Brentford and Wimbledon grounds. Brentford looks decent but only holds 17.5k whist new Wimbledon ground is only 9k and involves only one permanent stand.

The other one I noticed was the redeveloped Ashton gate which was a traditional four stand but they’ve got it up to 28k by filling in the corners.

Worst thing with this announcement is I’m now thinking about what our new ground could look like; a Ricoh return even with ownership almost seems disappointing

 

[ccfcchris]

A great announcement and the forum is full of negative comments. And yes I am aware it could not happen yet.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

That does have to be borne in mind, these are at least very much 'First World Problems' when you look back at the last decade or so.

Hopefully. Currently the pattern is treading a kind of familiar path though. We need to move off statements to the next phase, really. Then maybe we can start arguing about the colour of the hotel curtains.

 

[mr_monkey]

Hopefully. Currently the pattern is treading a kind of familiar path though. We need to move off statements to the next phase, really. Then maybe we can start arguing about the colour of the hotel curtains.

Tbf it was only announced yesterday mate, give them a bit of a chance at least

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Tbf it was only announced yesterday mate, give them a bit of a chance at least

You could argue it was announce4d seven years ago, so I've given them plenty of chance.

 

[chiefdave]

The only Premier League club averaging under 20k.

If we're in the Prem and there is a demand the expansion will be carried out to 35K which would currently be the 11th biggest ground in the PL. Is that not enough? How much larger does the proposed capacity need to be to satisfy you?