Do you want to discuss boring politics?

clint van damme

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May 3, 2015
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Sort of. They were doing it 2015-2017 to no effect. It was only after the Skripol stuff when Corbyn went mental and started defending Russia that the public mood on him changed.
And again you have to say, no one give the tories Russian connections that much scrutiny.
Johnson celebrated his election victory with Lebedev junior.
He plays tennis with oligarchs wives!
 

clint van damme

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It isn't at all, but the fact Labour keep consistently getting rejected by the electorate should show that there is a really, really big problem. Especially when the opposition are a bunch of cunts that those people probably don't really want to vote for either.
So why vote for them?
Why not abstain?
 

shmmeee

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Jul 11, 2011
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It isn't at all, but the fact Labour keep consistently getting rejected by the electorate should show that there is a really, really big problem. Especially when the opposition are a bunch of cunts that those people probably don't really want to vote for either.
A bit of perspective here. 2015 was the first GE the Tories had won in more than 20 years. Post Brexit the entire country has been split almost exactly down the middle and the difference is mostly down to leaders and splitting of the vote.

In normal electoral times we’d be here just after the Tories had won a second term and crying about “the end of Labour” would be seen at the bed wetting/trolling it is.
 

shmmeee

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Well the big thing in 2017 was Corbyn saying he’d respect the Brexit vote compared to 2019 when he’d lost the plot. 2017 was him at his best I think, with a great manifesto to go with it.
Bit of reality needed here too. 2017 was a Brexit election where half the country gave us their vote by default and we ran against the worst Tory GE campaign in living memory and still lost.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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A bit of perspective here. 2015 was the first GE the Tories had won in more than 20 years. Post Brexit the entire country has been split almost exactly down the middle and the difference is mostly down to leaders and splitting of the vote.

In normal electoral times we’d be here just after the Tories had won a second term and crying about “the end of Labour” would be seen at the bed wetting/trolling it is.
Because as Scotland showed when Labour loses heartland votes they never get them back.
 

clint van damme

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I did abstain in the last one actually, stand down sir!

Know what you mean though.
You said people don't want to vote tory, but they are.
My question wasn't aimed at you personally but more why is anyone who doesn't like either party just not abstaining?
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

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Dec 15, 2015
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A bit of perspective here. 2015 was the first GE the Tories had won in more than 20 years. Post Brexit the entire country has been split almost exactly down the middle and the difference is mostly down to leaders and splitting of the vote.

In normal electoral times we’d be here just after the Tories had won a second term and crying about “the end of Labour” would be seen at the bed wetting/trolling it is.
I don't think it is quite as innocent as that.

Labour are a complete joke and it is their own doing.
 

clint van damme

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I don't think it is quite as innocent as that.

Labour are a complete joke and it is their own doing.
But if you read the more recent pages of this thread no ones disputing it.
But pretty much every accusation, or something akin to it, can be thrown at tories but largely get ignored.
 
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shmmeee

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But if you read the more recent pages of this thread no ones disputing it.
But pretty much every accusation, or something akin to it, can be thrown at tories but largely get ignored.
They have their most charismatic leader since Thatcher who has delivered two of the biggest voter priorities with huge approval ratings in two years. I cannot state enough just how unprecedented this is in politics.

We are very much in “I could shoot someone in Times Square” territory.
 

Ian1779

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Dec 6, 2012
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It isn't at all, but the fact Labour keep consistently getting rejected by the electorate should show that there is a really, really big problem. Especially when the opposition are a bunch of cunts that those people probably don't really want to vote for either.
We’ve had 4 elections in 11 years, with a hugely divisive referendum added to the mix. We’ve got a voting system that is no longer fit for purpose, a media that does not and will not hold the incumbent government to any kind of scrutiny. Add to that a major political party that failed to uphold the very basic notion of respecting democracy at the last election and here you have this basket case. If this was another country in the world peoples how would we perceive it?
We are stuck with the Tories for the foreseeable future because they got one thing right. Labour needs to champion PR and mandatory open selection, and get about forming some kind of alliance that will work together as a collective.
 
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clint van damme

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They have their most charismatic leader since Thatcher who has delivered two of the biggest voter priorities with huge approval ratings in two years. I cannot state enough just how unprecedented this is in politics.

We are very much in “I could shoot someone in Times Square” territory.
As I've said before Netanyahu struggled in Israel despite leading the world in vaccinating the population.
Thats what happens when you have an electorate that actually give a fu k about corruption.
 
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shmmeee

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We’ve had 4 elections in 11 years, with a hugely divisive referendum added to the mix. We’ve got a voting system that is no longer fit for purpose, a media that does not and will not hold the incumbent government to any kind of scrutiny. Add to that a major political party that failed to uphold the very basic notion of respecting democracy at the last election and here you have this basket case. If this was another country in the world peoples how would we perceive it?
We are stuck with the Tories for the foreseeable future because they got one thing right. Labour needs to champion PR and mandatory open selection, and get about forming some kind of alliance that will work together as a collective.
With you all the way until the last sentence. PR is a wild goose chase: you’ve got to win under FPTP first and voters couldn’t give a shit about it. Open selection would just turbo charge all the internal bollocks that holds Labour back. If anything we need more central management of candidates and less member involvement, as much as that’s blasphemy in the party.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

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Dec 15, 2015
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But if you read the more recent pages of this thread no ones disputing it.
But pretty much every accusation, or something akin to it, can be thrown at tories but largely get ignored.
I think most people in the real world don't like either party very much. One is disliked more than the other and that's about it.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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We’ve had 4 elections in 11 years, with a hugely divisive referendum added to the mix. We’ve got a voting system that is no longer fit for purpose, a media that does not and will not hold the incumbent government to any kind of scrutiny. Add to that a major political party that failed to uphold the very basic notion of respecting democracy at the last election and here you have this basket case. If this was another country in the world peoples how would we perceive it?
We are stuck with the Tories for the foreseeable future because they got one thing right. Labour needs to champion PR and mandatory open selection, and get about forming some kind of alliance that will work together as a collective.
Rejoin with the Lib Dems for a start
 

shmmeee

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Jul 11, 2011
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As I've said before Netanyahu struggled in Israel despite leading the world in vaccinating the population.
Thats what happens when you have an electorate that actually give a fu k about corruption.
Be honest though. It’s pretty lame corruption “oh I borrowed some money then paid it back for wallpaper”, hardly Netanyahu level is it?
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

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Dec 15, 2015
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@Earlsdon_Skyblue1 id be interested in hearing more detail from you TBF. What makes them a joke in your eyes? Not here to argue, just curious.
I'm not a Tory lover, which is a common misconception a lot of Labour supporters who think I am because I don't agree with their opinion. I could list shit about them too, but as you asked, I think the biggest failure with Labour are their politicians. They aren't desirable to a lot of people.
 

Ian1779

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Dec 6, 2012
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With you all the way until the last sentence. PR is a wild goose chase: you’ve got to win under FPTP first and voters couldn’t give a shit about it. Open selection would just turbo charge all the internal bollocks that holds Labour back. If anything we need more central management of candidates and less member involvement, as much as that’s blasphemy in the party.
OK - but how do you get MP’s to be accountable? How many Labour MP’s are representative of the constituencies they hold. This careerist model which seems to exist is how we ended up with the ‘all as bad as each other’ notion. Peter Bone is my local MP - done fuck all for this constituency for as long as he’s been here, and yet will hold it until he retires or dies.
 

clint van damme

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Be honest though. It’s pretty lame corruption “oh I borrowed some money then paid it back for wallpaper”, hardly Netanyahu level is it?
Track and trace 37 billion. (Your complaint goes to Dido Hardings husband)
Matt Hancocks locals landlord getting a multi million PPE contract.
Jenrick helping his mates back pocket 40 million in tax earmarked for one of London poorest boroughs.

Pretty lame corruption- nah.
 
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Brighton Sky Blue

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I'm not a Tory lover, which is a common misconception a lot of Labour supporters who think I am because I don't agree with their opinion. I could list shit about them too, but as you asked, I think the biggest failure with Labour are their politicians. They aren't desirable to a lot of people.
Matt Hancock is about as undesirable as humanly possible.