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Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (22 Viewers)

  • Thread starter BackRoomRummermill
  • Start date Feb 23, 2020
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chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,876
Nick said:
I have found that the GPs have always been more interested in Doris with a cold (pre COVID) than mental health issues.

It's all well and good the campaigns saying "talk to somebody" but when you can't get into the doctors for a month (pre COVID) what are you meant to do?
Click to expand...
Totally agree. Most will take the 'easy' option of giving you a few pills and hoping that sorts things.

Its a short term v long term issue. The best option is intensive one on one treatment which in the short term is expensive. The people in charge of the budgets are only concerned with balancing this years budget so will normally take the cheaper options, for example dishing out a few pills, even though over a lifetime that is likely to work out far more expensive.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,877
chiefdave said:
Totally agree. Most will take the 'easy' option of giving you a few pills and hoping that sorts things.

Its a short term v long term issue. The best option is intensive one on one treatment which in the short term is expensive. The people in charge of the budgets are only concerned with balancing this years budget so will normally take the cheaper options, for example dishing out a few pills, even though over a lifetime that is likely to work out far more expensive.
Click to expand...

Not many can dish out the cost to go private for the one on one treatments though.

I have been to the doctors about mental health before, I timed how long I was in there. 3 Minutes. "Bam have these pills" Next time "Bam have more pills", next time "Take some more, you are quite a big lad".

That was after I had waited for some old woman who was in there before me for at least 10 who was moaning about a sore arm.

I have only ever found GPs unhelpful when it comes to mental health stuff, I can only wonder how much worse it is now during COVID getting a 2 minute phone call.

I found that absolutely hammering myself physically at football, the gym or classes worked better than medication. That in turn meant a healthier lifestyle, drinking more water, eating better. Even just the routine of leaving the house, going to exercise and being in a different space helped.

Once in a slump without that it's completely different. Work -> Home -> Work -> Home -> Work -> Home. No exercise means aches and pains like a back ache from not working out etc. All potential increases on the NHS if I was to bother them with everything.

There will be people who are much worse off than me mentally and will have built up the courage to make a doctors appointment and say "Im not OK". I can only imagine how they feel when they can't get in for weeks and when they do they get rushed out as quick as possible for the next "regular".
 
Last edited: Nov 18, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,878
Nick said:
I have found that the GPs have always been more interested in Doris with a cold (pre COVID) than mental health issues.

It's all well and good the campaigns saying "talk to somebody" but when you can't get into the doctors for a month (pre COVID) what are you meant to do?
Click to expand...

I think it's probably because they're trained physicians. Most of their learning is on physical things and A causes B and can be cured by C in pretty much everyone because we're built the same. There is some variation but those rules on the whole hold true.

Mental health is completely different and every single brain will be wired pretty uniquely and a person reacts differently so your approach for one person may be effective but seemingly the same approach to the same issue in another would be catastrophic. It's a far harder process to get right.

Also with physical problems there's also a decent chance of being able to second guess the progression of any disease or injury, even if it's only as much as being able to estimate how long a person has left to live. There's a greater degree of certainty and being able to predict the future.

With mental health a person can seem absolutely fine, sometimes for years or even decades, then just completely break down without warning. That's more akin to working in A&E or in the worst cases ICU rather than GP practice. It's seat-of-the-pants doctoring and for even the most experienced it must be extremely stressful and difficult and it's really difficult to effectively monitor the progress of the patient as it relies heavily on what they're telling you with clues in behavioural patterns (if the doctor can find out about them) rather than what they can observe clinically.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,879
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I think it's probably because they're trained physicians. Most of their learning is on physical things and A causes B and can be cured by C in pretty much everyone because we're built the same. There is some variation but those rules on the whole hold true.

Mental health is completely different and every single brain will be wired pretty uniquely and a person reacts differently so your approach for one person may be effective but seemingly the same approach to the same issue in another would be catastrophic. It's a far harder process to get right.

Also with physical problems there's also a decent chance of being able to second guess the progression of any disease or injury, even if it's only as much as being able to estimate how long a person has left to live. There's a greater degree of certainty and being able to predict the future.

With mental health a person can seem absolutely fine, sometimes for years or even decades, then just completely break down without warning. That's more akin to working in A&E or in the worst cases ICU rather than GP practice. It's seat-of-the-pants doctoring and for even the most experienced it must be extremely stressful and difficult and it's really difficult to effectively monitor the progress of the patient as it relies heavily on what they're telling you with clues in behavioural patterns (if the doctor can find out about them) rather than what they can observe clinically.
Click to expand...

The issue with that is that when you read online about other services, you often need referral from the GP so it is catch 22. You have to go back to them to open up the door to other services which are now swamped as well.

At least we had a few weeks of "normality" over the summer but if it's going to be another longterm lockdown it may be easier just to find a drug problem and be spaced out the whole time. It wouldn't surprise me if lots of people have turned to drugs and booze
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,880
chiefdave said:
Totally agree. Most will take the 'easy' option of giving you a few pills and hoping that sorts things.

Its a short term v long term issue. The best option is intensive one on one treatment which in the short term is expensive. The people in charge of the budgets are only concerned with balancing this years budget so will normally take the cheaper options, for example dishing out a few pills, even though over a lifetime that is likely to work out far more expensive.
Click to expand...

There was a tv show on a few years back called The Doctor Who Gave Up Drugs. Basically, doctor refused to prescribe pills unnecessarily as part of a social experiment. Found that even the patients weren’t satisfied unless they were lumped with some prescription for something or another. Strange psyche.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,881
Nick said:
The issue with that is that when you read online about other services, you often need referral from the GP so it is catch 22. You have to go back to them to open up the door to other services which are now swamped as well.

At least we had a few weeks of "normality" over the summer but if it's going to be another longterm lockdown it may be easier just to find a drug problem and be spaced out the whole time. It wouldn't surprise me if lots of people have turned to drugs and booze
Click to expand...

I fear you may be right. A lot of people have said they've been drinking a lot more.
 

MusicDating

Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,882
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I fear you may be right. A lot of people have said they've been drinking a lot more.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a coincidence that any article on the bbc about drinking in lockdown instantly goes to the top of the most read column.
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,883
CCFCSteve said:
Just to clarify, I agree (and hope) that the restrictions are having an affect....the regional tier threes were before the National lockdown by all accounts. I was saying if they end up having to apply further/stricter measures I would start to question, the effectiveness of some of the measures currently implemented.

Ps it’s a bit more than people not being able to go to the pub though shmmeee ! (As detailed in previous posts).
Click to expand...

Yeah I know. I’m just disappointed at the attitude generally. Trying to work out ways round the rules, making ridiculous complaints about minor inconveniences.

I guess that makes me harsher towards legitimate grievances.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,884
Nick said:
The issue with that is that when you read online about other services, you often need referral from the GP so it is catch 22. You have to go back to them to open up the door to other services which are now swamped as well.

At least we had a few weeks of "normality" over the summer but if it's going to be another longterm lockdown it may be easier just to find a drug problem and be spaced out the whole time. It wouldn't surprise me if lots of people have turned to drugs and booze
Click to expand...

IAPT is self referral I believe. When I used them I never went to my GP (who’s answer to anything is “lose weight and exercise more”)

https://www.covwarkpt.nhs.uk/iapt
 
Reactions: wingy

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,885
5 day free for all at Christmas could mean 25 days extra restrictions according to the news.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,886
clint van damme said:
5 day free for all at Christmas could mean 25 days extra restrictions according to the news.
Click to expand...
This is exactly how I think it will go down. It’s out there in the media for a reason.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,887
Ian1779 said:
This is exactly how I think it will go down. It’s out there in the media for a reason.
Click to expand...
I said that the chief exec at one of the local councils was suggesting a couple of weeks ago that we'd be 'let out' for Christmas, then shut away again until the end of February. Looks like this has been in the works for a while.

Personally I'd rather be shut up for Christmas, and have less restrictions sooner, afterwards. I suppose that very probably makes me the minority however but... I wouldn't fancy being one of the people in contact with those venturing out to do their shopping etc straight after this all pans out.
 
Reactions: hill83

hill83

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,888
Deleted member 5849 said:
I said that the chief exec at one of the local councils was suggesting a couple of weeks ago that we'd be 'let out' for Christmas, then shut away again until the end of February. Looks like this has been in the works for a while.

Personally I'd rather be shut up for Christmas, and have less restrictions sooner, afterwards. I suppose that very probably makes me the minority however but... I wouldn't fancy being one of the people in contact with those venturing out to do their shopping etc straight after this all pans out.
Click to expand...

I agree. I personally couldn't give a fuck about christmas and I'm working all the days we are "free" anyway.
 

ajsccfc

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,889
All I want to do every Christmas is laze about at home watching TV so I'm all for lockdown.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,890
Deleted member 5849 said:
I said that the chief exec at one of the local councils was suggesting a couple of weeks ago that we'd be 'let out' for Christmas, then shut away again until the end of February. Looks like this has been in the works for a while.

Personally I'd rather be shut up for Christmas, and have less restrictions sooner, afterwards. I suppose that very probably makes me the minority however but... I wouldn't fancy being one of the people in contact with those venturing out to do their shopping etc straight after this all pans out.
Click to expand...

Lockdown on valentines day sweet
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,891
clint van damme said:
5 day free for all at Christmas could mean 25 days extra restrictions according to the news.
Click to expand...
That's from SAGE isn't it? For every one day of loser restrictions an extra 5 days of tighter restrictions.
 

Johnnythespider

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,892
Is anyone hearing anything about schools closing ?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,893
Johnnythespider said:
Is anyone hearing anything about schools closing ?
Click to expand...

I havent yet.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,894
Can people still go on holiday?

In the paper about Mel Sykes travelling to Italy to see her toyboy. How the fuck does that work?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,895
Nick said:
Can people still go on holiday?

In the paper about Mel Sykes travelling to Italy to see her toyboy. How the fuck does that work?
Click to expand...
From 5 November to 2 December 2020, travelling away from home, including internationally, is restricted from England except in limited circumstances such as for work or for education.

The FCDO advises against all but essential travel to the whole of Italy based on the current assessment of COVID-19 risks.
If you are returning to the UK from Italy, you will need to self-isolate on your return (unless you are exempt).
Click to expand...
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,896
Hows this work?

Melanie Sykes, 50, shares smooch with gondolier lover, 23

The TV star was helped out of the vessel by handsome boatman Riccardo before they wrapped their arms around each other and shared a smooch beside the water.
www.dailymail.co.uk
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,897
Nick said:
Hows this work?

Melanie Sykes, 50, shares smooch with gondolier lover, 23

The TV star was helped out of the vessel by handsome boatman Riccardo before they wrapped their arms around each other and shared a smooch beside the water.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...

There's still flights so I guess they won't stop you going but you'll just have to isolate on return
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,898
Johnnythespider said:
Is anyone hearing anything about schools closing ?
Click to expand...
No but it's in both the little uns school's .
Is there some chatter ?
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,899
David O'Day said:
There's still flights so I guess they won't stop you going but you'll just have to isolate on return
Click to expand...
That seems to be how it works .
Seems it's up to yourself how to define essential.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,900
wingy said:
That seems to be how it works .
Seems it's up to yourself how to define essential.
Click to expand...
That's what I don't get.

I can't nip to my mates house but we could both fly to a different country?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 18, 2020
  • #35,901
Quite a big drop in cases today and even a reduction in admittances, hopefully a sign of things starting to turn. Residual infection rates will be high for a while though so be silly to come out of this lockdown until they're down.
 
Reactions: chiefdave, CCFCSteve and wingy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 19, 2020
  • #35,902
Nick said:
Hows this work?

Melanie Sykes, 50, shares smooch with gondolier lover, 23

The TV star was helped out of the vessel by handsome boatman Riccardo before they wrapped their arms around each other and shared a smooch beside the water.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...
You’re tested upon arrival at airports.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2020
  • #35,903
Deleted member 5849 said:
We were frustratingly close from suppressing it to a proper low last time out though, would have probably only taken a couple more weeks. That could have given us more leeway this time out, made it far easier to relax for Christmas.

Wouldn't you say a bit longer / tougher restriction in exchange for releasing them for longer / releasing more restrictions is a fair exchange?

It'd be pretty careless to open everything up early for Christmas if the consequence of that was we all shut down forever and a day afterwards, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

No I still have to go to work in a COVID factory and having everything else shut makes things twice as miserable. At least give me something to be cheerful about. The right answer was of course close schools but we are past the point of no return there
 
Reactions: Ian1779

We'll_live_and_die

Super Moderator
  • Nov 19, 2020
  • #35,904
Nick said:
That's what I don't get.

I can't nip to my mates house but we could both fly to a different country?
Click to expand...
I read yesterday there have been fines handed to people using Eurotunnel without a reasonable explanation.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2020
  • #35,905
fernandopartridge said:
Quite a big drop in cases today and even a reduction in admittances, hopefully a sign of things starting to turn. Residual infection rates will be high for a while though so be silly to come out of this lockdown until they're down.
Click to expand...

Good news overall, though it’s still transmitting at different paces across the country. West Mids unfortunately one of the worst (although fingers crossed starting to level off/improve). The tier system was working by all accounts (certainly those in T3*). If anything the call for a national lockdown led to a bit of a (last hurrah) spike in non T3 areas. Not surprised from what I saw in Birmingham (T2)

Sages numbers again questionable at best. I’m all for trusting scientists but not based on some modelling guesswork with limited/no evidence released about high transmission in certain settings/locations*. The scientists will dig us out of this mess with a vaccine.....the scientific modellers on the other hand ?! (Will be interesting to see BBC2s programme tonight about first lockdown).

With all the information/options hopefully now at their finger tips why can’t we at least have the following:

Hospital capacity per region (percentage compared to normal) - to help encourage those is high transmission areas to follow guidelines/measures
ICU capacity per region (percentage compared to normal) - see above
Regular asymptomatic testing for those working in care homes and those due to be around elderly/elderly relatives (rather than moonshoting everyone !)
If it’s spiking in regions ‘advise’ people not to visit/be cautious visiting elderly relatives ie shield them - only meet outdoors, with face coverings, encourage not to go to shops (provide delivery support) etc
Advise not to visit/leave higher transmission regions during spike

All of the above should be relatively easy to deliver/implement, would help in a tier system and might get proper buy in, because if we are bounced into another lockdown(s) with limited info they’re going to have less and less impact.

Finally, again, great news if things are getting back under control and also positive noises about Oxford vaccine which I guess is great for not just us but the whole world/developing as Oxford/AZ appear not to be seeking to profit from initial circulation of vaccine - something we should be proud of (if correct)

*T3 apparently working and yet gyms, restaurants were still allowed to open.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2020
  • #35,906
Ian1779 said:
This is exactly how I think it will go down. It’s out there in the media for a reason.
Click to expand...

I agree. Think I suggested that'll be what'll happen a few weeks ago on here. Extend lockdown a bit longer into Dec (can't do it too long as it's shops main revenue time) have Xmas and New Year opened up more then Jan and possibly part of Feb under tight restrictions and hope we get a mild winter and March gets lots of sun to help reduce the virus.

Of course with the potential vaccines it may not be as bad, but I think the issue with that is getting everyone vaccinated and logistically that's going to take many months.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2020
  • #35,907
Infection rates in 10-19, 70-79 and 80+ have risen in the last week - down in all other age groups.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2020
  • #35,908
Brighton Sky Blue said:
No I still have to go to work in a COVID factory and having everything else shut makes things twice as miserable. At least give me something to be cheerful about. The right answer was of course close schools but we are past the point of no return there
Click to expand...

Why are you working in a factory producing COVID? Stop working and we might be allowed out quicker!

 
Reactions: CCFCSteve and chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2020
  • #35,909
Ian1779 said:
Infection rates in 10-19 have risen in the last week
Click to expand...
Can't possibly imagine what is causing that
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 19, 2020
  • #35,910
chiefdave said:
Can't possibly imagine what is causing that
Click to expand...

I know the was rhetorical but care homes and schools
 
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