Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Legal immigrants tend to be net contributors to the economy, including students.
Legal immigrants tend to be net contributors to the economy, including students.Tourism and students bring income. Although if what BSB suggests that last year net student migration was 250k, then that accounts for over half of the year's net and I assume goes against the help that's needed gor caring and the NHS which is why everyone is saying we need more people. I doubt they're paying high student fees and working hard for 3 years to wipe the arses of our pensioners.
History.Why do you presume Reform would fail?
And what's really bizarre is you actually look forward to watching them fail !!!
It never ceases to amaze me that people would want a government to fail, this is our country ffs, surely you'd want to see any government succeed, and make the country a better place for all.
Personally I dont give a fuck who's in office, as long as they do a good and fair job for all.
We've had 14 years of a piss poor conservative government, and now Labour look even worse (if that's even possible)
Surely to God there has to be another solution, either Reform or whoever, but something drastic has to change.
I know, but they still need housing and rely on services, and they're not propping up this ageing or care system, so it all adds to yhe same problem. Whichever way you cut it we can't have a system that relies on unlimited migration into our infrastructure. Keep telling yourself differently but surely there must be a point even for the most liberal minded to say enough?Legal immigrants tend to be net contributors to the economy, including students.
What the old adage? "Politicians are wannabe celebrities without the looks."
I know, but they still need housing and rely on services, and they're not propping up this ageing or care system, so it all adds to yhe same problem. Whichever way you cut it we can't have a system that relies on unlimited migration into our infrastructure. Keep telling yourself differently but surely there must be a point even for the most liberal minded to say enough?
That’s the political mantraForeign students are generally spending huge amounts on fees and keeping universities open in places with not much other economy left. If you gut them you’re raising fees for British students, probably also raising taxpayer subsidies to these places, or you’re telling a bunch of voters their kid can’t go to uni or entire town they’ve lost their major economy.
Students tend to live in high density cities, don’t tend to use the NHS or other services as much as locals and spend in the local economy. The idea they are a drain is nonsense.
Your entire premise seems to be we can massively cut tax revenue and somehow this will lead to improved services.
That’s the political mantra
Cut taxes improve services
Find me a post by anyone that says ‘I want unlimited migration’ or ‘I want an open door immigration policy’. On the other hand, you literally have said you want all immigration stopped, though apparently not in the case of students but maybe yes now you know net student migration is very high.I know, but they still need housing and rely on services, and they're not propping up this ageing or care system, so it all adds to yhe same problem. Whichever way you cut it we can't have a system that relies on unlimited migration into our infrastructure. Keep telling yourself differently but surely there must be a point even for the most liberal minded to say enough?
Apart from a handful of loons I don't think there's actually many people in the country that want unlimited migration.I know, but they still need housing and rely on services, and they're not propping up this ageing or care system, so it all adds to yhe same problem. Whichever way you cut it we can't have a system that relies on unlimited migration into our infrastructure. Keep telling yourself differently but surely there must be a point even for the most liberal minded to say enough?
Welcome to the leftI guess people just need to see their services improving while taxes and costs go up, rather than taxes and costs going up but services declining.
a third of universities are said to not have enough funds to be able to operate for 100 days and are classed as at risk. they are in that status because Sunak tightened the rules around student visas which caused a drop in numbers.Foreign students are generally spending huge amounts on fees and keeping universities open in places with not much other economy left. If you gut them you’re raising fees for British students, probably also raising taxpayer subsidies to these places, or you’re telling a bunch of voters their kid can’t go to uni or entire town they’ve lost their major economy.
Net migration is post education. I've already said they add whilst studying.Foreign students are generally spending huge amounts on fees and keeping universities open in places with not much other economy left. If you gut them you’re raising fees for British students, probably also raising taxpayer subsidies to these places, or you’re telling a bunch of voters their kid can’t go to uni or entire town they’ve lost their major economy.
Students tend to live in high density cities, don’t tend to use the NHS or other services as much as locals and spend in the local economy. The idea they are a drain is nonsense.
Your entire premise seems to be we can massively cut tax revenue and somehow this will lead to improved services.
Could you be more condescending? Put simply I've thought it through and I'm fed up of paying more for less. You seem to have all the answers but no solution other than bury your head in the sand.Find me a post by anyone that says ‘I want unlimited migration’ or ‘I want an open door immigration policy’. On the other hand, you literally have said you want all immigration stopped, though apparently not in the case of students but maybe yes now you know net student migration is very high.
Put simply you haven’t thought it through.
That’s a separate issue to foreigners being allowed in. With respect you were condescending in the first place, putting arguments in people’s mouths they didn’t write.Could you be more condescending? Put simply I've thought it through and I'm fed up of paying more for less.
Nobody has suggested removing non Brits, my very first post said anyone here can stay.Apart from a handful of loons I don't think there's actually many people in the country that want unlimited migration.
But we have some fundamental issues. If we hit the stop button right now it wouldn't take long for things to unravel. Just off the top of my head:
Universities are struggling with the drop in overseas students, let alone stopping them completely. Within a year you'd be looking at a third of universities struggling to stay open. What happens to the staff and also the students part way through courses?
The latest figures I can find show the NHS has over 121,000 vacancies they can't fill. There's around 265,000 non British NHS staff. If we get rid of the non Brits we've got a shortage of around 386,000 staff, that's approximately a third of all NHS positions vacant. Do you think we can have a functioning service?
There's around 1.7m people employed in social care and approximately 10% of positions are vacant. There's over half a million non Brits employed in the care sector so if we get rid of those we're looking at around 680,000 vacant positions. That's about 40% of the workforce, how long do you think it would be before the care sector collapsed?
Students aren't net, post grads are. Students in cycle will be net zero.That’s a separate issue to foreigners being allowed in. With respect you were condescending in the first place, putting arguments in people’s mouths they didn’t write.
You also thought students weren’t net immigrants and didn’t realise they contributed a net quarter million to the figures. I’m not being condescending, it’s what you said.
The ageing population will just be replaced by another ageing population, though.To me it seems a short term problem. Once that ageing population dies off, there will be less people with more services available and the equilibrium restored. As in supply and demand, care staff eould currently need to be paid more to make it more attractive, as that changes, it would be back in line. A bit like plumbers are currently.
Of less people though.The ageing population will just be replaced by another ageing population, though.
Anyway. Would you also ban people from passing from Ireland into NI?Students aren't net, post grads are. Students in cycle will be net zero.
You're not going to see a significant decrease in people who are currently in their 50s, though. The number of foreign-born people who'd jump ship once the policy came in would be minimal.Of less people though.
For what purpose? Although if i did have my way I'd make Ireland one nation.Anyway. Would you also ban people from passing from Ireland into NI?
Again my original post said two generations, it also said care costs would need to be paid at a higher rate until all things equalised.You're not going to see a significant decrease in people who are currently in their 50s, though. The number of foreign-born people who'd jump ship once the policy came in would be minimal.
a third of universities are said to not have enough funds to be able to operate for 100 days and are classed as at risk. they are in that status because Sunak tightened the rules around student visas which caused a drop in numbers.
if you completely turned off the tap you'd have a huge number of universities closing before British students could finish their degrees. They'd be left tens of thousands in debt with no qualification to show for it. That's before you even consider the redundancies and turning towns and cities into ghost towns with large numbers of empty buildings.
A lot of employees are transient. Remove them or not if you're not letting new people in you end up in the same position, or well on the way towards it.Nobody has suggested removing non Brits, my very first post said anyone here can stay.
Banning ‘illegals’ crossing the land border.For what purpose? Although if i did have my way I'd make Ireland one nation.
The question is not is it sustainable, its how do you turn the tap off without everything collapsing. Look at the reaction when there's a suggestion of an increase in minimum wage or working conditions. Its all 'the economy will collapse' but the impact of those sort of policies are a rounding error compared to some of the things being proposed.So we need to keep importing hundreds of thousands of students a year to keep unis afloat and hundreds of thousands of workers to pay the pensions of the elderly and increasing welfare bill
How the fuck is this efficient or sustainable
Net migration is post education. I've already said they add whilst studying.
Not to mention how such a ridiculous policy makes us look to other countries.Then we’re back to industries not having the people they need. See the US and how they’ve had to row back for tech and agriculture because business needs workers at both ends of the spectrum. And you can say train them here but someone needs to pick and pack in warehouses and clean old people’s arses and if they’re all becoming data scientists and bio researchers then they’ve got to come from somewhere. Or you’re shutting down a less vital industry which needs mass or casual labour.
You keep coming back to the iron triangle you need either people, very large tax take from those left, or vastly reduced services especially for the old. A smaller economy from fewer workers reduces corporate tax take as well.
None of this is theoretical. We can look to advanced Asian countries for what happens when you marry low birth rate with low immigration.
Well it didn't take long to prove you wrong.
First migrants detained under 'one in, one out' deal with France
The detentions came as people arrived in Dover on Wednesday, the first day the pilot scheme came into force.www.bbc.co.uk
Because looking good to other countries who couldn't care less about us is high on the priority listNot to mention how such a ridiculous policy makes us look to other countries.
Ban net contributors to the economy coming inBecause looking good to other countries who couldn't care less about us is high on the priority list
Ffs it's going round in circles again you've offered no solution other than keep bringing in more and more.Ban net contributors to the economy coming in
Ban people we need to fill jobs coming in
Accept students and tourists because they put money into the economy
Got it right?
The question is not is it sustainable, its how do you turn the tap off without everything collapsing. Look at the reaction when there's a suggestion of an increase in minimum wage or working conditions. Its all 'the economy will collapse' but the impact of those sort of policies are a rounding error compared to some of the things being proposed.
If just the universities listed as at risk close how many people redundant is that? Then add on the kids who now can't get uni places who are also in the job market.
Its a problem we should never have created, I've always been of the belief that the vast majority of people in university should be there because they're learning required skills for which there is a job waiting at the end. But we are where we are and unwinding it is going to be very difficult.
There you go again ascribing arguments to people who didn’t make them.Ffs it's going round in circles again you've offered no solution other than keep bringing in more and more.
We only need people to fill those jobs because they're poorly paid. That can be addressed.
I'm also not sure why we need so many students including our own. Universities used to be for the elite not to prop up a failing economy of grifters who don't want to work.
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