12 year old raped in nuneaton (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter GIMOC
- Start date
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Public perception on pretty much everything is wrong. It’s one of many reasons why referendums are such a bad idea. We pay Polticians to understand stuff for a reason.
British public wrong about nearly everything, survey shows
Research shows public opinion often deviates from facts on key social issues including crime, benefit fraud and immigration
www.independent.co.uk
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Can’t ever point this out without being called patronising though.Public perception on pretty much everything is wrong. It’s one of many reasons why referendums are such a bad idea. We pay Polticians to understand stuff for a reason.
British public wrong about nearly everything, survey shows
Research shows public opinion often deviates from facts on key social issues including crime, benefit fraud and immigration
As someone else said, I applaud you just being honest in admitting you don’t want ANY immigrants here (the use of “we’re in front” in your post is an eye-opener). But surely you’re in dreamland if you think the country will somehow save money by enforcing a system that keeps all immigrants, legal or illegal, away from our borders? The money you’re earmarking for housing would be frittered away on Heathrow detainment camps and gunboats in the Irish Sea within days.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I mean I’m part of the public. I too don’t have the time or resources to properly understand stuff beyond chatting shit on the Internet. Worryingly many MPs seems to ignore that in favour of the same social and other media that makes the public so misinformed.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The best and the brightest tend not to stand for Parliament.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I've never understood how they move between and head up departments so easily. Ideally, there should be people with actual industry expertise and experience in those roles.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Same reason CEOs can, the job is more about managing people below you than making ground breaking technical discoveries.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Students come, students go. I'm referring to the strain on services and net migration. I'm pretty clear we all understand what I mean and I accept there will always be some illegal migration, but again as stated I'd guess that's only 10% of the numbers.
We can't keep just saying oh but we need more. If that continues we'll always need more, it will never repair.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
They don’t need to. But I think you’d be surprised. I’d bet parliament has more privately educated, oxbridge educated, and other elites than most organisations.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
An ageing population + no migration would be a long-term recipe for disaster.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The economic model relies on more people.
The system we have means that the taxes of working people pay for the care of the elderly (and the young but they pay off in the future)
More people are living longer (yay) and the longer you live the more expensive your care gets, plus you need pension, housing etc.
This was fine when we had a larger working age population, but now we’ve stopped having kids and the baby boom generation are well into retirement we don’t have enough taxpayers to fund the care of the elderly.
So either you magic up a way for people to start fucking, ideally 18 years ago.
Or you cut pensions and care to the bone and watch the elderly (who vote!) die in the streets.
Or you whack taxes up massively on the remaining workers (except you’ve got to promise not to do that to get elected in the first place - and besides you’ve been fucking those guys over for decades and they’re a bit pissed off with it).
Or you bring ready made workers in from elsewhere that you didn’t have to pay to educate, who can work now, and who you can worry about getting old later.
There is no economic model that doesn’t rely on growth.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
To me it seems a short term problem. Once that ageing population dies off, there will be less people with more services available and the equilibrium restored. As in supply and demand, care staff eould currently need to be paid more to make it more attractive, as that changes, it would be back in line. A bit like plumbers are currently.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Again, I've already said I'd happily pay more tax if it was guaranteed to be used in the right area.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
OK but history tells us that people won’t elect a government saying that and polling tells us you are in a very small minority of people who care so much about immigration you’re willing to pay more tax. So like the rest of us with fringe views you’re gonna have to lump it in a democracy.
Look at South Korea if you want to see where it goes. All of this is downstream of Brit’s stopping having babies. If we didn’t do that we wouldn’t need immigration at all.
I suppose I mean this suggestion that immigration can essentially be reduced to a game of sorts, where less immigration = “we’re in front ” and more immigration presumably = “we’re behind”
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I think it’s perfectly valid to say you don’t want a million people a year entering or whatever restrictions you want. It’s just another policy. I just wish anti immigration Polticians wouldn’t pretend it’s a cost free panacea.
Look at the ICE bill in the US. Enforcement costs a LOT. Taxes have to rise with fewer people. Industries shut down due to lack of staff. Our kids have to go into care because that’s where all the jobs are.
There’s a likely not too distant future where countries are fighting for immigrants because they need workers so badly and even the African nations have stopped having a surplus. Really the only way to ensure British people stay as they are if you want that is to get British people to make more British people.
It’s why I think Brexit was so self defeating on immigration. We’ve concentrated our immigration from fewer places and shut off a source of immigrants closest to our culture. There are integration issues with mass migration from a few countries leading to ghettoisation. But you solve that by having a wider spread of countries people are immigrating from so you can limit others.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Looking forward to reform trying and failing and then blaming EuropeThat's not a bad idea tbf.
Im sure if the will was there, we could temporarily stop all immigration, (the boats are just the tip of the iceberg)
The issue i see is that I really dont think the government have the will.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
A big chunk of our migration figures include students.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
As I said in the quoted post, I'm referring to net migration, not gross.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Net student migration was 250,000 last year.
Reason for international migration, international students update - Office for National Statistics
International student migration to the UK. Provisional estimates, 2018 to 2023. These are official statistics in development.
www.ons.gov.uk
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
What the old adage? "Politicians are wannabe celebrities without the looks."
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Not sure I'm understanding what you want. You've said let zero people in but tourists and students are fine? How do you make sure they leave the country?
My next question was going to be how do we stop services collapsing? We made a small change to visas for care workers and within a matter of weeks the care system nearly collapsed and it had to be 'temporarily' reversed.
But it seems you plan is that the generation currently in old age, or rapidly approaching it, have to live out there years in pain and suffering because there's nobody to look after them and hope that it somehow sorts itself out by the time the following generation is in need of care.
fatso
Well-Known Member
Why do you presume Reform would fail?
And what's really bizarre is you actually look forward to watching them fail !!!
It never ceases to amaze me that people would want a government to fail, this is our country ffs, surely you'd want to see any government succeed, and make the country a better place for all.
Personally I dont give a fuck who's in office, as long as they do a good and fair job for all.
We've had 14 years of a piss poor conservative government, and now Labour look even worse (if that's even possible)
Surely to God there has to be another solution, either Reform or whoever, but something drastic has to change.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Literally everyone has been waiting for Labour to fail from day 1 and is enjoying making it seem that things have never been worse
Thanks for challenging me. I’m not at all looking forward to it because I can see the outcomes of populism and blame and fear and we can see in history where that leads to
I’m resigned to it and won’t cease from saying that we know what will happen with liars chatlatans and post truth leaders in government
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
Because there is literally no logic applied to zero immigration and increasing the personal tax allowance. Well, there is…looting.
Well it didn't take long to prove you wrong.
First migrants detained under 'one in, one out' deal with France
The detentions came as people arrived in Dover on Wednesday, the first day the pilot scheme came into force.
www.bbc.co.uk
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I think if you look at the people involved you would rate the chances of them 'failing', however you measure that in a government, if they ever came to power.
Farage and co are very good at pointing the finger of blame and coming up with snappy slogans to match but the track record on actually achieving anything is not good.
In a sane world Brexit would have been the end of Farage. Campaigned for it for years, got what he wanted and literally the morning after the result was on breakfast tv saying 'nothing to do with me'. Someone he managed to convince his supporters that the shit show that has followed is nothing to do with him or Brexit.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Tourism and students bring income. Although if what BSB suggests that last year net student migration was 250k, then that accounts for over half of the year's net and I assume goes against the help that's needed gor caring and the NHS which is why everyone is saying we need more people. I doubt they're paying high student fees and working hard for 3 years to wipe the arses of our pensioners.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
So if you're letting tourists and students in how are you preventing overstays? Seems to me you'd be reducing legal migration but seeing a huge increase in illegal migration which by definition are people you don't know are here and haven't passed any checks.