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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (52 Viewers)

PVA said:
I would love to know the specific reasons Reform voters want to give an 'up yours' to Starmer. And I mean actual specifics - reasons why he's making them worse off, reasons he's impacting their daily life.

I can almost guarantee the majority wouldn't have a clue other than they think he's inviting MILLIONS of immigrants in
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Other than immigration I’d imagine it will be down to feeling worse off. Taxes have increased and there’s been no tangible benefit (yet)

I’ve said it a million times before but the country as a whole have not accepted that the world has changed and we currently live in a low growth, fully developed economy with an ageing (and unhealthy) demographic. This on the back of the financial crisis and horrific productivity since, the pandemic where we spent hundreds of billions, closed the country down for months and had a negative impact on a lot of people’s health and the Ukraine war which trigger/escalated a huge inflation shock where everyone feels a lot poorer

Nobody wants to discuss and properly address the huge underlying problems we and other countries face, though. Unless we get some decent productivity and growth I’d say we’re pretty fucked
 
Marty said:
Tell her to cut back on her avocado on toast and Netflix, only then will she be fine.
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She could possibly make some cut backs,hard with her teenage children well working age son who is actually employed at the moment, but it's kinda irrelevant march was projected to be a cut and now it is not or maybe it was February and projected for two further cuts this year so who's the winner here the mortgage brokers, wonder where they're held.
 
CCFCSteve said:
Other than immigration I’d imagine it will be down to feeling worse off. Taxes have increased and there’s been no tangible benefit (yet)

I’ve said it a million times before but the country as a whole have not accepted that the world has changed and we currently live in a low growth, fully developed economy with an ageing (and unhealthy) demographic. This on the back of the financial crisis and horrific productivity since, the pandemic where we spent hundreds of billions, closed the country down for months and had a negative impact on a lot of people’s health and the Ukraine war which trigger/escalated a huge inflation shock where everyone feels a lot poorer

Nobody wants to discuss and properly address the huge underlying problems we and other countries face, though. Unless we get some decent productivity and growth I’d say we’re pretty fucked
Click to expand...
Maybe we just need to accept our station?
 
CCFCSteve said:
If anyone thinks Reform or the Greens have credible answers to the huge number of complex problems this country and most of the developed world are facing, I’ll have whatever they’re drinking or smoking

Theyre populist parties that are leveraging divisions in the country. I just hope the country wakes up to this before the next GE and the main parties give something for people to vote for.
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You say that but clearly Labour nor the Tories have credible answers. The old ‘Blairite’ consensus is collapsing and there’s a vacuum to be filled.

Once upon a time, Labour were the insurgent party and became the natural party of opposition. The traditional parties do not have a god given right to exist and both of the main parties have ‘betrayed’ their bases.
 
PVA said:
I would love to know the specific reasons Reform voters want to give an 'up yours' to Starmer. And I mean actual specifics - reasons why he's making them worse off, reasons he's impacting their daily life.

I can almost guarantee the majority wouldn't have a clue other than they think he's inviting MILLIONS of immigrants in
Click to expand...
I can give you a few ideas on why people are pissed off and it does come down to mass immigration as the root cause.

Housing shortage issues, pressure on ALL public services, driving down wages, no go areas in cities, crime and organised crime gangs are all symptoms of mass immigration policies employed by both main parties for the last 30 years.

Its impossible to allow nigh on ten million people into the country in a short time and not expect an impact on all of the above (with the exception of crime if we were more thorough with vetting).

If people don't think that any of the above apply in this country then they are in denial.
 
eastwoodsdustman said:
I can give you a few ideas on why people are pissed off and it does come down to mass immigration as the root cause.

Housing shortage issues, pressure on ALL public services, driving down wages, no go areas in cities, crime and organised crime gangs are all symptoms of mass immigration policies employed by both main parties for the last 30 years.

Its impossible to allow nigh on ten million people into the country in a short time and not expect an impact on all of the above (with the exception of crime if we were more thorough with vetting).

If people don't think that any of the above apply in this country then they are in denial.
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They are valid concerns - but why do they specifically hate Starmer for those things?

All of those things have been going on for years.

He hasn't let 10 million people into the country, for example.

This is the point I'm trying to get at. People hate Starmer and that's fine, but can't seem to actually pinpoint why. It's like he's being blamed for everything that's gone wrong in the last 20 years.
 
PVA said:
They are valid concerns - but why do they specifically hate Starmer for those things?

All of those things have been going on for years.

He hasn't let 10 million people into the country, for example.

This is the point I'm trying to get at. People hate Starmer and that's fine, but can't seem to actually pinpoint why. It's like he's being blamed for everything that's gone wrong in the last 20 years.
Click to expand...
People hate Starmer or his regime because he's a bare faced liar who lacks any charisma. He's a greyer and a much weaker version of John Major.

He Spent his first 18 months in power blaming the Conservatives for the lack of progress, he's promised a refreshing change and honesty and his is probably worse than the previous regime in that aspect, he's ignored peoples concerns about migrants and hotels by branding anyone who speaks as a racist, he's overseen a crackdown on some free speech and I also think that there has been undue pressure from no.10 on the judicial system in how they deal with 'sensitive' cases.

Just a few things that I reckon might mean people don't like him. There's loads more but its a start.
 
PVA said:
I'll put it differently.

Reform voters (or anyone) are right to be angry - they're just angry at the wrong people and the wrong things.
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No, people have every right to be angry with Labour, Starmer and the Conservatives. They have been letting the country down and broken promises for too long going way, way back.
I'm not big on Reform or Farage to be honest but there is one thing that does appeal to me with them is that they say that they will review and clear out the dead wood in the civil service which is massively needed. Blair/Browns parting gift to the country was to log jam the civil service on anything that they didn't agree with and the county is still struggling with this over 25 years on.
 
Mucca Mad Boys said:
You say that but clearly Labour nor the Tories have credible answers. The old ‘Blairite’ consensus is collapsing and there’s a vacuum to be filled.

Once upon a time, Labour were the insurgent party and became the natural party of opposition. The traditional parties do not have a god given right to exist and both of the main parties have ‘betrayed’ their bases.
Click to expand...

You need to stop talking sense. Makes us all look bad.
 
Basically it the merging of the two largest parties into the middle ground and people don't have choice anymore...

Choice is a very big thing in Democracy, Voters will go elsewhere just out of desperation.
 
PVA said:
They are valid concerns - but why do they specifically hate Starmer for those things?

All of those things have been going on for years.

He hasn't let 10 million people into the country, for example.

This is the point I'm trying to get at. People hate Starmer and that's fine, but can't seem to actually pinpoint why. It's like he's being blamed for everything that's gone wrong in the last 20 years.
Click to expand...

Starmer came in on a badge of bringing honesty and integrity into politics. Also stability.

He has presided over chaos, lies, cover ups and threw everyone else under the bus.
 
Grendel said:
Starmer came in on a badge of bringing honesty and integrity into politics. Also stability.

He has presided over chaos, lies, cover ups and threw everyone else under the bus.
Click to expand...
A number of U-turns hasn't helped him either, particularly the winter fuel and that was a policy I didn't necessarily disagree with, just managed really badly.
 
rob9872 said:
I think most people are more concerned with what's on their own doorstep and largely don't give a fk about Israel. It's a conflict that has been going several decades, albeit recently intensified.
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Exactly.

Madness that local councillors want to just bang on about Gaza as their leading sales pitch. Get to fuck.
 
I’m not sure it’s the root cause but am happy to discuss that
We have a country in Japan struggling with exactly the same problems of an ageing population but without our levels of immigration
 
PVA said:
I'll put it differently.

Reform voters (or anyone) are right to be angry - they're just angry at the wrong people and the wrong things.
Click to expand...
As a Reform voter, reasons I dislike Starmer/Labour:

• Wouldn't have a Grooming Gangs Enquiry. That has only come about because of pressure put on them by Reform. Another good thing Reform have done that Labour didnt. In fact, starmer tried his hardest to block an inquiry at every point!
• Trying to force digital ID still.
• Promised increased defence spending. Haven't dont it, and in fact, made us far worse off by declining the military and giving away the chagos islands.
• Promised no tax hikes for workers, then U-turned and did it anyway.
• Promised not to take away winter fuel payments.... then took them anyway.
• Tried to cancel these local elections! Talk about dictatorship worthiness or what!
• Hired his mate Mandleson.

I could probably go on, but you get the point im sure!

Sent from my SM-S711B using Tapatalk
 
DT-R said:
As a Reform voter, reasons I dislike Starmer/Labour:

• Wouldn't have a Grooming Gangs Enquiry. That has only come about because of pressure put on them by Reform. Another good thing Reform have done that Labour didnt. In fact, starmer tried his hardest to block an inquiry at every point!
• Trying to force digital ID still.
• Promised increased defence spending. Haven't dont it, and in fact, made us far worse off by declining the military and giving away the chagos islands.
• Promised no tax hikes for workers, then U-turned and did it anyway.
• Promised not to take away winter fuel payments.... then took them anyway.
• Tried to cancel these local elections! Talk about dictatorship worthiness or what!
• Hired his mate Mandleson.

I could probably go on, but you get the point im sure!

Sent from my SM-S711B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Boy are you about to be surprised on the tax one!
 
Dunno why people would be voting based on immigration in local elections tbh but maybe as said it's a rhetoric that's ingrained into people's minds.
I voted based on the piss poor distribution of public money that this council has overseen.
In a world where we the people are expected to cut back, our council has splurged the fucking lot away each year on nothing but vanity projects that constantly go over budget.
All whilst our services get cut.
You can blame austerity all you want, who then blame it on "dear, there's no money left good luck" labour, who in turn ... Blah, blah, blah
But reality is when the money they have, gets pissed away on projects that will never return on investment, maybe they need pulling into check.
One of the UK's best indoor water parks, closed 50% of the time
The old baths, costing a fortune just to keep empty
The IKEA building, a whole shit tonne of lost public money on a building that will be up to 40% used by the uni. The rest on a cultural centre for arts, like the loss making one we already have.
The purchase of coombe park, the thing that's free to go to but costs a fortune to maintain
The 800mtr electric tram line, that offers zero purpose to anyone except a student that needs to get round the corner quicker.
Could have linked the city centre to the rail station, but obviously the need to go round the corner to the uni buildings is far more vital.

Local issues are the only reasons for me to vote in this election, but I doubt I'll be rolling the dice on an inexperienced party on a whimsical hope that 200k immigrants will be waiting at bhx come next week
 
fernandopartridge said:
In my opinion a lot of anti-immigration rhetoric is at root about the economic situation and the perception of feeling worse off and looking for somebody to blame. Labour has done absolutely nothing (and neither will Reform) to address that root cause.
Click to expand...

No it isn't. This is the go-to leftist argument all the time. Rachel Millward did the same meme recently about the price of butter being to blame for ethnic fragilities, and it is nonsense.

Yes, the economic situation is bad. It is bad in the whole of Europe and is in a really shit place, but it is a different thing from the problems with immigration, which are very valid.

The numbers that have come to the UK are astronomical, and in a large amount of cases, from places where the values are not the same as the ones we have. There are all manner of problems that have come out of that, one of the hot topics at the moment being the level of crime committed by migrants, particularly sexual ones. A large share of the country have just voted in the local elections (which don't have much to do with immigration) for a party who's number one party piece is to get tough on it. If that isn't a wake up call then there's no help.
 
DT-R said:
As a Reform voter, reasons I dislike Starmer/Labour:

• Wouldn't have a Grooming Gangs Enquiry. That has only come about because of pressure put on them by Reform. Another good thing Reform have done that Labour didnt. In fact, starmer tried his hardest to block an inquiry at every point!
• Trying to force digital ID still.
• Promised increased defence spending. Haven't dont it, and in fact, made us far worse off by declining the military and giving away the chagos islands.
• Promised no tax hikes for workers, then U-turned and did it anyway.
• Promised not to take away winter fuel payments.... then took them anyway.
• Tried to cancel these local elections! Talk about dictatorship worthiness or what!
• Hired his mate Mandleson.

I could probably go on, but you get the point im sure!

Sent from my SM-S711B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I forgot about the council election fiasco. Deemed illegal and ended up having to cover the reform legal costs. Utter shambles.
 
Sky Blue Pete said:
I’m not sure it’s the root cause but am happy to discuss that
We have a country in Japan struggling with exactly the same problems of an ageing population but without our levels of immigration
Click to expand...
They have made a point of not doing mass immigration Pete. They have said that they're happy for their economy to shrink or grow in line with their population. Its not necessarily the wrong approach and time will tell.
 
Ccfcisparks said:
Boy are you about to be surprised on the tax one!
Click to expand...
Care to elaborate? Or just doing the usual of putting a cryptic post to try and seem itk/intelligent?

Sent from my SM-S711B using Tapatalk
 
DT-R said:
Care to elaborate? Or just doing the usual of putting a cryptic post to try and seem itk/intelligent?

Sent from my SM-S711B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
They've already done a u-turn on their original tax cuts proposal as they know its not financially viable
 
If high levels of immigration is the root cause of all problems then surely the fact that net migration is massively down, as well as small boat crossings, means this government is actually doing a good job.



Confused Thinking GIF
 
Mucca Mad Boys said:
You say that but clearly Labour nor the Tories have credible answers. The old ‘Blairite’ consensus is collapsing and there’s a vacuum to be filled.

Once upon a time, Labour were the insurgent party and became the natural party of opposition. The traditional parties do not have a god given right to exist and both of the main parties have ‘betrayed’ their bases.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The Tories were a squabbling unelectable shitshow post pandemic (Johnson etc overseeing totally uncontrolled immigration for a couple of years damaged them badly especially after Brexit). There was a lot of talk by Labour during the election campaign about growth but they’ve done nothing to deliver it and taxes have increased

Unless they both start coming up with some clear and credible policies to deliver growth, improve living standards and give the country hope, they will continue to lose out to the populist parties telling their bases/wider population what they want to hear
 
Louis Goodall can be a bit of a dick but is this really what our local politics/council elections has come to.

 
PVA said:
If high levels of immigration is the root cause of all problems then surely the fact that net migration is massively down, as well as small boat crossings, means this government is actually doing a good job.



Confused Thinking GIF
Click to expand...

You seem to be getting pretty desperate to defend Starmer and that the public are stupid

Starmer is someone who said he’d clean up politics and create economic growth. He’s done neither. He also said like his role at the CPS he praises his team and takes all the blame. What we have is a man who’s fired a string of advisors and civil servants to save his skin. A man who has flip flopped on policies as his back benchers control him. A man who appointed Mandleson then claimed surprise about dodgy dealings.

An economy going backwards and a man whose credentials are in tatters

You keep waving the flag.

The Welsh Labour Leader is about to be voted out by her constituents - you couldn’t make it up.
 
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
No it isn't. This is the go-to leftist argument all the time. Rachel Millward did the same meme recently about the price of butter being to blame for ethnic fragilities, and it is nonsense.

Yes, the economic situation is bad. It is bad in the whole of Europe and is in a really shit place, but it is a different thing from the problems with immigration, which are very valid.

The numbers that have come to the UK are astronomical, and in a large amount of cases, from places where the values are not the same as the ones we have. There are all manner of problems that have come out of that, one of the hot topics at the moment being the level of crime committed by migrants, particularly sexual ones. A large share of the country have just voted in the local elections (which don't have much to do with immigration) for a party who's number one party piece is to get tough on it. If that isn't a wake up call then there's no help.
Click to expand...
It isn't for you, you have long been anti immigration which is your right. You are not so anti that you have not been an economic migrant yourself across Europe though.
 
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