Do you want to discuss boring politics? (31 Viewers)

[tisza]

The last page of this thread is exactly why all of this has become such a difficult thing to tackle.

We've got a story about grooming gangs, and the fact the victims once again don't feel heard or that this is being dealt with properly or fairly.

What are we talking about? Islamophobia, how bad Christianity is, and even Tommy Robinson has managed to make an appearance.

Does seem the govt wants to get its"islamophobia" definitions in place before this grooming inquiry launches.
This grooming scandal is such a political minefield as no inquiry can't but be extremely critical of govt bodies, councils, police, social services and certain sections of the community.
For all the handwringing and political mud throwing in April Alexis Jay was in the media this week saying that still only 2 of her 20 recommendations have been addressed.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Does seem the govt wants to get its"islamophobia" definitions in place before this grooming inquiry launches.
This grooming scandal is such a political minefield as no inquiry can't but be extremely critical of govt bodies, councils, police, social services and certain sections of the community.
For all the handwringing and political mud throwing in April Alexis Jay was in the media this week saying that still only 2 of her 20 recommendations have been addressed.

I see the victims that have quit the inquiry will only rejoin it if certain things are done as well, one of which is to sack Jess Phillips, who they feel has betrayed them.

 

[mmttww]

re: the enquiry, for some balance, several survivors have publicly disagreed with those that have left. Hard to tell signal from noise when the scope or changes to it aren't in the public domain.

 

[chiefdave]

For all the handwringing and political mud throwing in April Alexis Jay was in the media this week saying that still only 2 of her 20 recommendations have been addressed.

How many people said this when it became about using demands for a national enquiry as political point scoring.

Time and time again it was pointed it we've had enquiries and fuck all had been done as a result but some of those in the spotlight were more interested in what they could gain for themselves rather than prioritising the victims.

Now we've got a predicatable problem in that its taking forever to set it up, as happens with most enquries. And because its a large scale national enquiry there's endless arguements about the scope. While you're got media reports of some survivors quitting because the scope is not what they feel it should be you've got others pushing for the opposite.

A complete, and predictable, mess that will in the best case scenario add months before anything gets done. Worse case scenario the whole thing gets binned and we start again.

 

[Grendel]

re: the enquiry, for some balance, several survivors have publicly disagreed with those that have left. Hard to tell signal from noise when the scope or changes to it aren't in the public domain.

There is no scope or terms - that’s the problem

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Even looking at that now, it doesn't say that £350m is going to the NHS. It's saying let's fund it instead of sending £350m to the EU each week. Anyone who was taken in by it and thinks that what it's saying on either side is a bit simple.

Well, given that Leave slapped in on the side of the bus, what does that tell you about the kind of people they were trying to convince then? They couldn't argue with those with a modicum of intelligence or critical thinking with genuine points so were left using lies trying to appeal to stupid people.

That tells you want their opinion was of the general public and their disingenuity. And that is still what Farage is trying to do now.

 

[mmttww]

There is no scope or terms - that’s the problem

there must be something that's been proposed or the survivors that have left the inquiry wouldn't have had anything to become frustrated about. Everything I've read talks about them not wanting certain people running it and them having concerns about the scope. Logically, for them to have concerns, there must have been something presented to them. If not, I fully don't get what's going on.

 

[Grendel]

there must be something that's been proposed or the survivors that have left the inquiry wouldn't have had anything to become frustrated about. Everything I've read talks about them not wanting certain people running it and them having concerns about the scope. Logically, for them to have concerns, there must have been something presented to them. If not, I fully don't get what's going on.

Of course there isn’t - that can’t happen until someone is appointed as a chair

 

[Grendel]

Well, given that Leave slapped in on the side of the bus, what does that tell you about the kind of people they were trying to convince then? They couldn't argue with those with a modicum of intelligence or critical thinking with genuine points so were left using lies trying to appeal to stupid people.

That tells you want their opinion was of the general public and their disingenuity. And that is still what Farage is trying to do now.

The lies on the remain side were appealing to
Intelligent people?

Voters were misled over Brexit – but mostly by the Remain campaign

This week marks the anniversary of the Brexit vote, so you can expect to see lots of articles about the scandalous way that British voters were misled. How a group of manipulative and well-funded political charlatans played on the emotions and fears of credulous older voters less well educated...

capx.co

 

[rob9872]

Well, given that Leave slapped in on the side of the bus, what does that tell you about the kind of people they were trying to convince then? They couldn't argue with those with a modicum of intelligence or critical thinking with genuine points so were left using lies trying to appeal to stupid people.

That tells you want their opinion was of the general public and their disingenuity. And that is still what Farage is trying to do now.

There were lots of lies told by remain too - often associated with George Osbourne. What was their opinion of the general public?

 

[rob9872]

The lies on the remain side were appealing to
Intelligent people?

Voters were misled over Brexit – but mostly by the Remain campaign

This week marks the anniversary of the Brexit vote, so you can expect to see lots of articles about the scandalous way that British voters were misled. How a group of manipulative and well-funded political charlatans played on the emotions and fears of credulous older voters less well educated...

capx.co

Beat me to it!

 

[mmttww]

can’t happen until someone is appointed as a chair

then why are survivors unhappy about what the scope might be? I get that a ToR etc. isn't going to be nailed down without people in place to run the thing.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

then why are survivors unhappy about what the scope might be? I get that a ToR etc. isn't going to be nailed down without people in place to run the thing.

Politicising the process

 

[mmttww]

Politicising the process

as in you think they're trying to politicise it, or they feel it's being politicised? because reading up on it, trust in Phillips and co. being lost seems to be all about the potential for the scope to broaden to being more than just focused on grooming gangs.

Looks like that all stems from a survey sent asking the survivors panel if they want it to be focused on grooming gangs or to be broader than that. Which seems a bit dumb at this point! Not a great place for it all to start. Makes it look amateur at best.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

as in you think they're trying to politicise it, or they feel it's being politicised? because reading up on it, trust in Phillips and co. being lost seems to be all about the potential for the scope to broaden to being more than just focused on grooming gangs.

Looks like that all stems from a survey sent asking the survivors panel if they want it to be focused on grooming gangs or to be broader than that. Which seems a bit dumb at this point! Not a great place for it all to start. Makes it look amateur at best.

All groups politicising it

 

[duffer]

All groups politicising it

Which feels like absolute madness, doesn't it?

It's worth pointing out that only four of the apparently twenty or so 'survivors' have kicked off about it. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know, but the result is just going to be further delays and both political parties focussing on the optics rather than just cracking on with it. I've got an inherent distrust of Jess Phillips, who I'm not sure is the Saint that she's made out to be, but regardless, demanding her resignation seems a bit extreme.

The danger here for the four survivors is that by making it overtly political they end up delaying the thing even further and hurting those others that want to get it going. What a mess.

Grooming gangs inquiry: Why is there a row?

A national inquiry into grooming gangs in England and Wales is in turmoil - how did we get here?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Grendel]

as in you think they're trying to politicise it, or they feel it's being politicised? because reading up on it, trust in Phillips and co. being lost seems to be all about the potential for the scope to broaden to being more than just focused on grooming gangs.

Looks like that all stems from a survey sent asking the survivors panel if they want it to be focused on grooming gangs or to be broader than that. Which seems a bit dumb at this point! Not a great place for it all to start. Makes it look amateur at best.

The concern as expressed in the Casey Report is that it will try and water down the fact that mostly these gangs are culturally motivated to take and rape white girls.

 

[PVA]

Badeneoch in particular seems to be desperate to politicise it.

And indeed she was called out for it by one of the potential chairs that pulled out, with him citing that as one of his reasons for doing so.

 

[Grendel]

Which feels like absolute madness, doesn't it?

It's worth pointing out that only four of the apparently twenty or so 'survivors' have kicked off about it. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know, but the result is just going to be further delays and both political parties focussing on the optics rather than just cracking on with it. I've got an inherent distrust of Jess Phillips, who I'm not sure is the Saint that she's made out to be, but regardless, demanding her resignation seems a bit extreme.

The danger here for the four survivors is that by making it overtly political they end up delaying the thing even further and hurting those others that want to get it going. What a mess.

Grooming gangs inquiry: Why is there a row?

A national inquiry into grooming gangs in England and Wales is in turmoil - how did we get here?

www.bbc.co.uk

Your Hubris is incredible

I’m not sure why survivors are in inverted commas and you accuse victims of politicising the process.

 

[Grendel]

Badeneoch in particular seems to be desperate to politicise it.

And indeed she was called out for it by one of the potential chairs that pulled out, with him citing that as one of his reasons for doing so.

I don’t think she’s been referenced by the victims has she?

 

[PVA]

I don’t think she’s been referenced by the victims has she?

I didn't say she has.

 

[Grendel]

I didn't say she has.

So if she is “in particular desperate to politicise it” why have the victims targeted the Labour government- are they wrong then?

 

[Grendel]

The reality is that these girls were failed by system and left to be abused by men who are Pakistani Muslims who targeted them because they were in their view white trash.

The deflector and defence shields will be on to try and avoid this basic fact. It happened because of a failure in public services and because of exploitation by an ethnic group motivated by their cultural prejudice against those who they felt were beneath their values and how women should be.

It’s a fact and many on here deny it and therefore excuse it.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The reality is that these girls were failed by system and left to be abused by men who are Pakistani Muslims who targeted them because they were in their view white trash.

The deflector and defence shields will be on to try and avoid this basic fact. It happened because of a failure in public services and because of exploitation by an ethnic group motivated by their cultural prejudice against those who they felt were beneath their values and how women should be.

It’s a fact and many on here deny it and therefore excuse it.

Correct.

 

[Grendel]

Ring of Steel is lurking I see!

 

[mmttww]

it will try and water down the fact that mostly these gangs are culturally motivated to take and rape white girls.

and it looks like someone putting a daft, ill thought out question in what should have been a simple survey has kicked this all off and slowed things down (again). Ridiculous that something which happened 20 years ago and had a seven year inquiry still hasn't really led to anything being done or changed.

 

[Grendel]

and it looks like someone putting a daft, ill thought out question in what should have been a simple survey has kicked this all off and slowed things down (again). Ridiculous that something which happened 20 years ago and had a seven year inquiry still hasn't really led to anything being done or changed.

You have kind of avoided the point this is about watering down the racial element as per the Casey Report?

 

[mmttww]

You have kind of avoided the point this is about watering down the racial element as per the Casey Report?

I'm not, I'm pointing out that someone asking about the scope in a survey (just grooming gangs or wider) looks like the thing that's prompted survivors leaving the panel.

 

[Grendel]

I'm not, I'm pointing out that someone asking about the scope in a survey (just grooming gangs or wider) looks like the thing that's prompted survivors leaving the panel.

Do you accept these girls were targeted as they were white?

The victims believe that

 

[rob9872]

Do we know how many were targeted out of a normal family unit or were they pretty much all more vulnerable and from the care home system?

 

[Grendel]

Do we know how many were targeted out of a normal family unit or were they pretty much all more vulnerable and from the care home system?

All in care I would assume

 

[rob9872]

Given a like for responding, but of course in reality it should be a sad

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

5 of the survivors have said they’ll only stay if the safeguarding minister stays