Take the knee

[Liquid Gold]

As I said, of course it should be respected.

Although there clearly are links and support because why did taking the knee become a thing???

That's the point, mix politics in and it gets blurred. Regardless of them saying it isn't political, I am sure Gary Deegan wasn't being political when he said "Up the IRA".

It because Aa thing because athletes in the UK are copying what athletes in the US did.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Go outside, throw some nazi salutes and goose step about.

Tell them it isn't to do with Nazis at all.

Stupid and facile

 

[Nick]

Stupid and facile

Is it? But you would be telling people it isn't linked?

 

[Nick]

It because Aa thing because athletes in the UK are copying what athletes in the US did.

No, it started with BLM over "project restart" and George Floyd.

I can't remember it happening over here before that?

 

[Travs]

How could an anti-racist movement, one that is attempting to address systemic and institutional racism (as well as the more obvious kinds) NOT be associated with politics?

That is the very question I was asking. Yet apparently they state that they are apolitical.

I think this whole thread sums up that it's a total mess.

It's a sad commentary on the world today that I feel I have to publicly state that I am totally against racism, otherwise i feel it might be deemed otherwise.

But I stand by my opinions that football isn't the way to do it. It opens the players themselves up to a lot of critique and questions (see my posts above re the 2022 WC).

FIFA and UEFA deserve all the abuse they get imo. ..

 

[Deleted member 5849]

All you need to know about why NFL players are taking a knee and where it came from

Colin Kaepernick's silent protest against police brutality in black America ignited a firestorm of debate. Years later, the league is now apologising

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Liquid Gold]

Go outside, throw some nazi salutes and goose step about. Tell them it isn't to do with Nazis at all.

People keep saying "We are nothing to do with BLM" but then do things that were pretty much becoming a thing over here after George Flloyd.

Here's an idea, if things aren't to do with BLM then get behind the "No Room for Racism" and "Kick it Out" and go all in with that.

Something invented 4 years ago by a sportsman to protest racism being currently done by sportsmen to protest racism is just like doing the Nazi salute and saying it's about something else? Is that your argument?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Is it? But you would be telling people it isn't linked?

Yes it is.

 

[Liquid Gold]

No, it started with BLM over "project restart" and George Floyd.

You're wrong.

 

[Nick]

And look at all of us, doing the racist's work by ignoring anti-racism and going round and round about what a gesture means. Deflecting and distracting all of us. This should be a 5 post thread

'Footballers are kneeling against racism'
'Fuck racism'
'I agree'

Arguing about the fucking gesture they've chosen does nothing.

It isn't arguing, it is pointing out why things should be totally distanced from BLM. The same as was said months ago.

 

[Nick]

You're wrong.

OK so Colin Kaepernick did it in 2016.

How many players / teams have done it before kickoff over here between 2016 and George Floyd?

 

[Liquid Gold]

It isn't arguing, it is pointing out why things should be totally distanced from BLM. The same as was said months ago.

"We are not doing this in support of any organisation"

What more do you want from them?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

What is the "whole world of other stuff" that concerns you, out of interest? I think I can probably guess, but I would also like to know.

A, 'yes you were right, I apologise' would have been fine.

 

[Nick]

"We are not doing this in support of any organisation"

What more do you want from them?

Surely you can see why then doing the same thing that started with BLM can be seen as linked?

As I said, go and do some nazi salutes and say it isn't related to Nazis.

The point is, everything should have been totally distanced from BLM from the start. Of course push anti racism, go all in with "No Room for Racism" or discrimination in general.

It's not much different to starting something up called "Britain First" with the idea of restoring the countryside then wondering why people look at you funny or get mixed messages.

Football in the UK went all in with BLM, then when it realised about the political side it moved to "No Room for Racism" rightly. You then have the David O'Day types who want to call every man and his dog a racist all of the time.

 

[Liquid Gold]

OK so Colin Kaepernick did it in 2016.

How many players / teams have done it before kickoff over here between 2016 and George Floyd?

So because it took longer to get here then the message is completely different?

You know the same shit about it being Marxist was said to C Kap in 2016 yeah?

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Go outside, throw some nazi salutes and goose step about. Tell them it isn't to do with Nazis at all.

This fella got away with it for years....

 

[Skybluefaz]

And look at all of us, doing the racist's work by ignoring anti-racism and going round and round about what a gesture means. Deflecting and distracting all of us. This should be a 5 post thread

'Footballers are kneeling against racism'
'Fuck racism'
'I agree'

Arguing about the fucking gesture they've chosen does nothing.

Tiring isn't it. Feels like there needs to be a correct form of protest fully sanctioned and signed off by white people before it can be OK. I think there is an irony there but I can't be fucked anymore.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

BLM isn’t about “other stuff”, you’ve been fed bullshit by well funded racist groups on the right with no evidence whatsoever designed to delegitimise an anti racist movement because the racists don’t like it.

So here’s my question: why are some people so susceptible to believing this crap about anti racist movements, but doesn’t get up in arms about not anti racist movements that have actual documented links to actual radical politics?

And why do these people seem to cluster in the exact same places racists do, if them being racist has nothing to do with it? If I found myself constantly in the same places as racists, I’d start to wonder why.

You're wide of the mark really.

My points were that BLM has been tarnished. Some of you are still trying to argue against it.

Players take a knee. Get booed.
Players link arms and sing hokey cokey. Get cheered.

I'm just waiting for someone to call me racist for pointing it out and we have the off topic chat bingo.

 

[Nick]

So because it took longer to get here then the message is completely different?

You know the same shit about it being Marxist was said to C Kap in 2016 yeah?

It started after George Floyd over here.

This is the issue with labelling everything "BLM" isn't it, rather than just making it "No Room for Racism"?

It's the same thing as months ago, of course push it, make it known, don't let it drop. Don't do it under a BLM label / banner, surely?

Can you really not see that point? If only people would realise that without shouting "You are a racist" instantly.

I am going to start English-Defence-League.com.uk but it's nothing to do with Tommy Robinson or his views, it is just a league for defenders stats. Can you see why people may have an issue?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Tiring isn't it. Feels like there needs to be a correct form of protest fully sanctioned and signed off by white people before it can be OK. I think there is an irony there but I can't be fucked anymore.

Well considering we are being told that whites are the racists all the time, perhaps they are the ones that should have their minds changed to eradicate racism altogether?

Tip: You aren't going to change those nasty white racists' minds by that kind of attitude.

We know it isn't really about that though.

 

[Travs]

Quite apart from the issues on this thread... Football has really gone downhill in the past couple of years especially.

Everywhere you look, it's constant cheating, diving, "game mangement"... Constant hysteria surrounding the big 4/6/whatever.

The past year has obviously not helped... Games behind closed doors, canned crowd noise, constant political/racism debate rater than discussion about the game.

It really isn't a pleasure at all any more. I switched over at half-time last night to watch skiing or something, and it was genuinely more enjoyable than the thought of turning back onto the football.... Think it was 68mins before I finally bothered to turn back onto the 2nd half.

Racism/politicism has certainly not been the cause of that.... That goes without saying... But its another facet that is sucking all life out of football imo.

Dotn get me started on VAR!

 

[Nick]

Racism/politicism has certainly not been the cause of that.... That goes without saying... But its another facet that is sucking all life out of football imo.

Agree with that, especially when you watch on Sky.

That isn't that "people should shut up about it", far from it. It's more than it isn't really that effective to just have a presenter obsessing over who will take the knee or not and interviewers also obsessing over it. The QPR game last night, football didn't really get much of a mention.

It isn't really an effective method if bringing change, is it? It isn't really educating, it's just the media spinning things up.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Well considering we are being told that whites are the racists all the time, perhaps they are the ones that should have their minds changed to eradicate racism altogether?

Tip: You aren't going to change those nasty white racists' minds by that kind of attitude.

We know it isn't really about that though.

Totally predictable but stupid response.

 

[SomersetSB]

Would in general agree with the first part. There is clearly going to be a left/right political aspect to it because of the way political systems work (or don't work) for a lot of people of colour. Clearly there will be outliers, but the general point remains the same.

I'd also love to see a boycott Qatar qualifying stages, but I guess this won't happen.

Didn’t Greg Clarke get made to step down for saying’People of colour last week’?
But it’s ok for you?

 

[SomersetSB]

As I said, of course it should be respected.

Although there clearly are links and support because why did taking the knee become a thing???

That's the point, mix politics in and it gets blurred. Regardless of them saying it isn't political, I am sure Gary Deegan wasn't being political when he said "Up the IRA".

Thought that was D Oday that said that?

 

[Skybluefaz]

Didn’t Greg Clarke get made to step down for saying’People of colour last week’?
But it’s ok for you?

No. A quick google would have told you what he said.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Didn’t Greg Clarke get made to step down for saying’People of colour last week’?
But it’s ok for you?

Here he is, the guy repping Marxists with his avatar

 

[clint van damme]

You're wide of the mark really.

My points were that BLM has been tarnished. Some of you are still trying to argue against it.

Players take a knee. Get booed.
Players link arms and sing hokey cokey. Get cheered.

I'm just waiting for someone to call me racist for pointing it out and we have the off topic chat bingo.

But Millwall are tarnished.
Your argument might have been better if you'd said fuck Millwall, they've got previous but why were Colchester booing?
Instead people have chosen to defend a support who have recent history of racist incident at other clubs but haven't offered a logical explanation as to why on this occasion they definitely weren't being racist given their history.

I'll ask again, is Heung Min Son a Marxist?

 

[Nick]

Doesn't the Marxist stuff come from the founders of BLM? (That isn't me saying everybody and anybody is Marxist)

That again is the issue with everything being labelled as BLM, isnt it? Surely people can see that?

Surely people can see why when they put things under the banner, label, slogan etc of "BLM" then people will link it to the people who founded "BLM"?

Much the same as if you start labelling things "EDL" then it's Tommy Robinson that comes into your head?

 

[shmmeee]

Didn’t Greg Clarke get made to step down for saying’People of colour last week’?
But it’s ok for you?

No he didn’t. Come on dude, to maintain this shite you’ve got to believe the vast majority of the planet is stupid or insane and you’re oh so smart and rational. Have a bit of humility and understand that maybe you got the wrong end of the stick and the world hasn’t gone mad.

You’re so desperate to believe this fantasy land of scary Marxists and Black people who hate all whites or whatever you’re spouting utter nonsense. Why would someone have to step down for using PoC when the wokest Of the woke do it too? Why?

This is as bad as the Qanon shit. How do you survive believing half the planet is evil? Most people just want to crack on with living laughing and loving FFS. Take that as your baseline.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Totally predictable but stupid response.

If you want to educate racists you don't do so by insulting a whole race in the process, or using a campaign that got hijacked for ulterior motives.

It really isn't that hard, but we keep going round in circles.

 

[shmmeee]

Doesn't the Marxist stuff come from the founders of BLM?

(That isn't me saying everybody and anybody is Marxist)

That again is the issue with everything being labelled as BLM, isnt it?

No.

And if they were, what exactly is the problem with Marx? Can any of you explain what you’re so scared of?

Also, people keep falling for this shit and it’s literally as old as time:

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

But Millwall are tarnished.
Your argument might have been better if you'd said fuck Millwall, they've got previous but why were Colchester booing?
Instead people have chosen to defend a support who have recent history of racist incident at other clubs but haven't offered a logical explanation as to why on this occasion they definitely weren't being racist given their history.

I'll ask again, is Heung Min Son a Marxist?

I've repeatedly highlighted the Millwall fans and their reputation as scum.

We all know that isn't the argument though. Look at what happened last night. There is almost no reference to it because the same usual suspects on here cannot stand bring wrong.

 

[shmmeee]

The idea that there’s even such a thing as a “trained Marxist” or “communist training school” is hilariously batshit.

How can you be so angry about something you cleary don’t have the first iota of understanding?

 

[clint van damme]

If you want to educate racists you don't do so by insulting a whole race in the process, or using a campaign that got hijacked for ulterior motives.

It really isn't that hard, but we keep going round in circles.

who's doing that?
I'm not saying there aren't people but they're very much a minority but you're using them as the standard then when they do the same thing, label all white people as racist because of a few you complain about it. You can't have it both ways.