The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

[Astute]

can somebody explain to me what vote was and what it would do, does it mean UK cant leave without a deal or ?

Nothing means anything ATM. Just adults acting like a bunch of children. Idiotic adults a lot of them.

 

[skybluetony176]

can somebody explain to me what vote was and what it would do, does it mean UK cant leave without a deal or ?

It basically means that the government can’t make preparations for a no deal scenario without the backing of Parliament. Which isn’t a bad thing given the recent ability demonstrated by the government giving a ferry contract to a firm that has no ferries to operate from a port that doesn’t have the facilities for the ferries to use should they indeed exist in the first place. Which they don’t.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

And how much of an idiot was I not long ago when questioning those who said there was no chance of the Mayhem deal going through?

There's still very little chance of it getting passed.

 

[skybluetony176]

And how much of an idiot was I not long ago when questioning those who said there was no chance of the Mayhem deal going through?

No idea. Try reposting your question in a form that makes sense and I’ll give it a go then.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Err. Hello. When did I suggest such a thing? Have you misread something?

I feel another disagreement coming on here. I don't like people saying I have said something that I haven't. I have not said I am in favour of another vote or referendum in any way.

This is a paraphrase of one of your posts:

‘I still put it even between leave without a deal,leave accepting the deal and ending up with another referendum.’

This is quite vague and it’s meaning is unclear to me. I’ve interpreted as options for a referendum if the government chose that route. Not saying you’re in support of this outright, just if that’s the decision of government to hold another vote.

Feel free to correct me if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick here.

 

[Sick Boy]

And how much of an idiot was I not long ago when questioning those who said there was no chance of the Mayhem deal going through?

It has nothing to do with this vote

 

[Astute]

This is a paraphrase of one of your posts:

‘I still put it even between leave without a deal,leave accepting the deal and ending up with another referendum.’

This is quite vague and it’s meaning is unclear to me. I’ve interpreted as options for a referendum if the government chose that route. Not saying you’re in support of this outright, just if that’s the decision of government to hold another vote.

Feel free to correct me if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick here.

Yes you have. Let it go the first time you said it. But if I didn't correct you the second time I could see it would continue to be said in the future.

As I said I see it as an even chance between the 3 options. That is it. Nothing else said. Nothing else meant.

Who would want a referendum with 3 or more answers when 2 is difficult enough?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Exactly. Call another referendum and there will always be calls for more. Those who voted remain will have seen that they can get another so will keep on about getting another....As you said from a year onwards. And if a second one went the way of remain those who voted leave would see moaning about the result and keeping pressure on for another referendum works. So it would be their turn.

So where would it end?


And have you found where I said I wanted a choice of 3 yet?

That’s democracy, and public opinion is constantly changing. Referendums, as a rule of thumb, tend to be rare so I imagine it’d be off the table for a while after a final say on the deal. The scenario we find ourself in is exceptional hence the necessity for something as a drastic as another referendum.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Yes you have. Let it go the first time you said it. But if I didn't correct you the second time I could see it would continue to be said in the future.

As I said I see it as an even chance between the 3 options. That is it. Nothing else said. Nothing else meant.

Who would want a referendum with 3 or more answers when 2 is difficult enough?

Fair enough, I’ll go back and edit your name out of the original posts to avoid misrepresenting your view. At least one person proposed it way back in the thread when I originally got involved.

 

[Astute]

It has nothing to do with this vote

But it keeps making the May deal look more likely to go through. As you know I called it this way. Vote last minute after she delays it as long as she can. Do you remember I said I wouldn't be surprised if it came down to May deal or remaining in the EU? Could be referendum. Could be another way. Nobody knows.

 

[Astute]

Fair enough, I’ll go back and edit your name out of the original posts to avoid misrepresenting your view. At least one person proposed it way back in the thread when I originally got involved.

No.problem.

Everyone has different ideas. Some will see your ideas as bad as you see this one.

This is why I prefer to say what I think will happen instead of what I would prefer. Makes me consider all options. The problem is it makes me trust all involved a lot less. Now I don't know what I want the most.

Most important is a trade deal that favours the people of the EU. As in us....the working class.

What I want the most is everyone be as happy with the final result as possible. Impossible?

Don't worry about the edits. A couple on here will still quote it when it suits their argument....no mentioning names....:shifty:

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

No.problem.

Everyone has different ideas. Some will see your ideas as bad as you see this one.

This is why I prefer to say what I think will happen instead of what I would prefer. Makes me consider all options. The problem is it makes me trust all involved a lot less. Now I don't know what I want the most.

Most important is a trade deal that favours the people of the EU. As in us....the working class.

What I want the most is everyone be as happy with the final result as possible. Impossible?

Don't worry about the edits. A couple on here will still quote it when it suits their argument....no mentioning names....:shifty:

My arguments attenpt to be apolitical because I genuinely think a second referendum is very likely. Where my bias is, however, that I said that from Day 1, to uni friends and close friends.

 

[Astute]

That’s democracy, and public opinion is constantly changing. Referendums, as a rule of thumb, tend to be rare so I imagine it’d be off the table for a while after a final say on the deal. The scenario we find ourself in is exceptional hence the necessity for something as a drastic as another referendum.

And here is the problem. Democracy. Respecting a result. Following through on a vote.

Democracy isn't ignoring a vote. Having another referendum isn't democracy. So best to call it something else.

 

[Grendel]

What a plonker. He has me on ignore and is still talking about me. He calls that bliss. Nuff said.

You talked about me all the time I had had you on ignore. Poor Tony can’t cope and needs therapy whenever I do it to him

 

[martcov]

You mean now it is too late and tens of thousands of people are going to die because they did nothing?

Should I ask it another way. If the UK, which sits on the EU council, s so much better on this subject, what did they do to push the matter in the EU?

 

[martcov]

And here is the problem. Democracy. Respecting a result. Following through on a vote.

Democracy isn't ignoring a vote. Having another referendum isn't democracy. So best to call it something else.

A referendum is democracy. Denying a referendum when the polls show a majority want one, is not democracy.

 

[Grendel]

You and Dugdale are on the same level now. Two peas in a pod.

You do realise that some see the Eu fourth Reich project as positive? Many pro Eu commentators describe it as such and believe it is a good thing?

 

[Sick Boy]

But it keeps making the May deal look more likely to go through. As you know I called it this way. Vote last minute after she delays it as long as she can. Do you remember I said I wouldn't be surprised if it came down to May deal or remaining in the EU? Could be referendum. Could be another way. Nobody knows.

I seen to remember you posing multiple suggestions and say no one knows. There’s still little chance of May’s deal getting through, IMO.

 

[Astute]

My arguments attenpt to be apolitical because I genuinely think a second referendum is very likely. Where my bias is, however, that I said that from Day 1, to uni friends and close friends.

I don't know if you have read my comments on here before. But I have been planning retiring for years. I plan to retire in 8 years 10 months when my youngest is 18. It is to go in a motor home, turn right at Calais and follow the coast. Keep going whilst one of us is fit enough to drive. Want at least 10 years of it. Give family home to kids. Brexit looks as though it will f¥ck my plans up. But Brexit isn't bad for everyone. I try to respect the views of everyone. That is long as they don't disrespect anyone and are also truthful.

 

[martcov]

You talked about me all the time I had had you on ignore. Poor Tony can’t cope and needs therapy whenever I do it to him

I didn’t have you on ignore. If you put someone on ignore, it is to avoid him. Hardly clever if you then enjoy talking about the person you presumably don’t want anything to do with. Anyway he has a crush on me and can’t keep me out of his mind.

 

[Sick Boy]

You talked about me all the time I had had you on ignore. Poor Tony can’t cope and needs therapy whenever I do it to him

You clearly don’t.

I have that clown who started posting on here with his inane pissed up ramblings and nothing of his ever comes up.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

And here is the problem. Democracy. Respecting a result. Following through on a vote.

Democracy isn't ignoring a vote. Having another referendum isn't democracy. So best to call it something else.

A referendum is a form of direct democracy, the purest democracy has to offer.

People voted to leave, an elected government has gone away and negotiated a deal and to hold a vote on that deal is about as close to pure democracy as you can get.

A referendum cannot be undemocratic in any circumstances because the electorate is voting on an issue.

 

[martcov]

You do realise that some see the Eu fourth Reich project as positive? Many pro Eu commentators describe it as such and believe it is a good thing?

I have no idea what you are on about. Try chatting to your latest acolyte about it.

 

[Grendel]

A referendum is democracy. Denying a referendum when the polls show a majority want one, is not democracy.

Brilliant. So you having rubbished referendums now think we should have one on anything that an opinion poll shows in favour of against the view of the elected government - yoy truly are a gift

 

[Grendel]

A referendum is a form of direct democracy, the purest democracy has to offer.

People voted to leave, an elected government has gone away and negotiated a deal and to hold a vote on that deal is about as close to pure democracy as you can get.

A referendum cannot be undemocratic in any circumstances because the electorate is voting on an issue.

Interesting as Martcov thinks referendums are the bastion of the extremists and are against democracy

 

[Grendel]

I have no idea what you are on about. Try chatting to your latest acolyte about it.

Of course you don’t.

 

[Astute]

I seen to remember you posing multiple suggestions and say no one knows. There’s still little chance of May’s deal getting through, IMO.

More of a chance than when telling me I was wrong thinking there was a chance of it happening?

Nobody knows what will happen next. I'm not saying that it will happen. But she has played for time like I thought she would. The choice could well be leave without a deal or take Mayhems deal. Which would you take?

 

[Grendel]

That’s democracy, and public opinion is constantly changing. Referendums, as a rule of thumb, tend to be rare so I imagine it’d be off the table for a while after a final say on the deal. The scenario we find ourself in is exceptional hence the necessity for something as a drastic as another referendum.

Rare but you want one very soon after the last one so you may force a result and then suppress the chance of another one in case you lose the third. Democracy mucca style

Interesting

 

[martcov]

Of course you don’t.

As I said, try that one on your acolyte.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

People voted to leave, an elected government has gone away and negotiated a deal and to hold a vote on that deal is about as close to pure democracy as you can get.

That's the best argument I've heard for a 'May's Deal' or 'No Deal' referendum. Well done.

 

[Astute]

A referendum is a form of direct democracy, the purest democracy has to offer.

People voted to leave, an elected government has gone away and negotiated a deal and to hold a vote on that deal is about as close to pure democracy as you can get.

A referendum cannot be undemocratic in any circumstances because the electorate is voting on an issue.

Can ignoring a referendum be counted as democratic?

 

[martcov]

More of a chance than when telling me I was wrong thinking there was a chance of it happening?

Nobody knows what will happen next. I'm not saying that it will happen. But she has played for time like I thought she would. The choice could well be leave without a deal or take Mayhems deal. Which would you take?

You might as well ask.. which do you want, a kick in the head or a kick in the bollocks? According to the polls, more people now want neither.

 

[Astute]

Should I ask it another way. If the UK, which sits on the EU council, s so much better on this subject, what did they do to push the matter in the EU?

It was nothing to do with us. Don't do your normal and twist the truth. It won't work with me.

 

[Grendel]

You might as well ask.. which do you want, a kick in the head or a kick in the bollocks? According to the polls, more people now want neither.

You hate referendums Mart - now you sound like Hitler

 

[martcov]

It was nothing to do with us. Don't do your normal and twist the truth. It won't work with me.

We are part of the EU and we sell diesel cars. I drive one made in the UK.