torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Shouldn't this thread have been "CCFC PR"?
Sisu pr (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Old Warwickshire lad
- Start date
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Indeed. Weren't MMM, Noggin, Jack and the other Waspies telling us how great it was for the taxpayer will all those lovely payments?
Maybe they get the alternative funding using any naming rights money as security for the funding. In effect the sponsors pay the new loan off. But didn't Tim say he wouldn't have taken on the same deal as Wasps because of having to pay back the loan? If you are right about alternative funding and stadium sponsorship being paid over a term, then Tim has no idea.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Even better to have the money now and it probably sinks the JR once and for all. If the council are owed no money then what could the JR achieve? They sold an empty "soulless" "edifice" or "white elephant" - as described on here - to the only people who came forward with a business plan and are now getting their money back. Pity that the money to pay it off won't be coming from SISU as a new investor in a consortium with Wasps.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
But you don't actually know do you. Come on admit that this story took you by surprise too.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Why should there be,no risk to the taxpayer loan paid off job done.
MMM has connections with Wasps without doubt, possibly a business interest within the venture. I agree with you as to his obvious posting pattern on the subject and its the only time he has ever been obnoxious with me on here, when I dared to suggest that they would be bad for Cov rugby !
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
And the club. Surely, cutting financial ties with CCC will give them a free reign to whack our rent up? Still, as long as CCC and Wasps do OK then I don't care.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I'm not the one who took it off track.
Shouldn't this thread have been "CCFC PR"?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
There are obviously Wasps fans or whoever who joined after they got hold of the Ricoh to basically just take the piss and cause a bit of conflict. I bet they didn't expect some of the natives to join them.
lewys33
Well-Known Member
I hate sisu more than most, and even helped Michael with KCIC duties now and again. I would do it all again in a heartbeat.
Having said that I couldn't give a fuck whether wasps paid off the loan yesterday, today, or in 50 years. What happened was wrong. Plain and simple. The council have screwed us over to spite Sisu. Anyone using this story to help their anti-sisu spin is moronic, and it just shows that you care more about hating sisu than the future of this club.
Having said that I couldn't give a fuck whether wasps paid off the loan yesterday, today, or in 50 years. What happened was wrong. Plain and simple. The council have screwed us over to spite Sisu. Anyone using this story to help their anti-sisu spin is moronic, and it just shows that you care more about hating sisu than the future of this club.
Yes I agree, The idiotic hedge fund pushed the council over the edge and when the council hit back CCFC were caught in the crossfire and thousands of fans were left disillusioned !
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I've no doubt some of the biggegst supports of the franchise (despite supposedly being against that kind of thing) have some kind of dealings or financial interests in Wasps being here, which is fair enough I guess. Can't be true for them all though.
But yeah, there are a few who would still rather see the club sink as long as SISU went with them.
But yeah, there are a few who would still rather see the club sink as long as SISU went with them.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Just a question have any of yo had a pm from me in last few minutes think I've sent them instead of posting.
rightumpty
New Member
I think you should be grateful they weren't charged full price.
Seriously though, it's another example of the crap we are expected to put up with.
I say "GET THEM OUT"
Seriously though, it's another example of the crap we are expected to put up with.
I say "GET THEM OUT"
Nick
Administrator
Yes, I am just getting the talc out to send a picture in reply. This leather is a nightmare to get on.
Nick
Administrator
Moff
Well-Known Member
He is mates with James Haskell. I think if he has a buisness venture it should be a pie shop, as Haskell looks like he has been eating lots of them, and so MMM should be making a fortune.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Post of the year mate. Spot on.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Not that one
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Interesting theory. So the loan would pay for itself and the initial cost of buying ACL with a 250 year lease probably cost less than JR when you take into account SISU's legal bills, CCC's legal bills and lost revenue from the disastrous Northampton move.
Sorry to hear that you don't care. I do. If SISU aren't involved in some form ( e.g. Buying in ), then it is game set and match to Wasps. It shows where we could have been. It is not Wasps fault that we are not there, they only came in late and from outside. We were in pole position......
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
As we were often told with JR1, the case was about a moment in time, not whatever happened afterwards.
No reason why JR2, this time it's personal would be any different.
We were also told that it was about a "remedy" if there had been wrongdoing. E.g. Loan would have to be repaid. Will be soon anyway ( apparently ).
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It would also give the opportunity to submit claims for loss of earnings, damages etc.
We haven't been in "pole position" since sisu started fucking about to get it on the cheap
Sent from my GT-I8160 using Tapatalk 2
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I thought it was JR2, J hardeR?
Theoretically. Didn't work before when the stadium was empty. The judge said it was reasonable for CCC to expect that there would be new tenents/ buyers within the remaining 42 years of the lease. I would think events have proved the judge right and we have not heard of any significant new smoking guns from that time.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
INDEBTED rugby club Wasps want to raise up to £30million including in loans from ordinary fans - partly to pay back a taxpayer loan from Coventry City Council, the Observer understands.
Our council sources say councillors have been briefed by senior council officers on Wasps' latest proposals to raise loans from a mixture of institutional investors, and fans - through a 'retail bond' scheme.
The 'retail bond' scheme would invite ordinary people, fans and possibly local companies to invest money as an "I owe you", with the expectation it would be returned by Wasps at some point in future.
It follows unconfirmed speculation for months that Wasps have been trying to raise similar monies from traditional lenders in the finance markets, partly to enable them to re-finance the loan and pay off the council in full.
Hotel Chocolate is among companies to have issued a 'retail bond' scheme. As a return on punters' investment, they issued free chocolate as a type of interest payment.
It is understood a third part of Wasps' plan is to raise money from the naming rights in the Ricoh Arena from a sponsor, who would pay potentially millions of pounds for the stadium to be re-named using their company name.
There is speculation that Jaguar Land Rover could be interested in the naming rights, which it is understood are due within the next two years.
Council sources say income from the naming rights could help pay off the £13.4million loan owed to the council since a secret deal in October last year. That deal saw indebted London Wasps Holdings Limited buy the Ricoh company Arena Coventry Limited on a massive 250-year lease for £5.5million - plus the loan - from previous ACL joint owners, the council and Alan Edward Higgs Charity.
Council sources say it is hoped the council loan could be paid back in full within months - rather than the planned 20 years - when Wasps intend to issue a prospectus for the retail bond scheme.
The prospectus would claim business has significantly increased since their Ricoh move. Wasps maintain their turnover is increasing - albeit from a low base - since their switch from Adams Park in High Wycombe. Their Ricoh attendances have been bolstered by free, cheap and 'buy one, get one free' ticket offers.
It is not known if Wasps might seek to borrow to pay off the council loan against the future income they expect from the naming rights next year.
We revealed the latest 2013/4 accounts for London Wasps Holdings Limited - owners of stadium operating company Arena Coventry Limited - show £22million debt, including loans which have been borrowed against future rugby Premiership income.
The last ACL accounts, for 2013/4, recorded £400,000 losses. The Coventry Observer has exposed inaccurate public claims by council leader Ann Lucas about ACL's finances. We have also highlighted how the council's Labour leaders had repeatedly stated they would only expose city taxpayers to risk from loans in viable and sustainable companies.
News of the possibility of the council loan being paid back in full comes three weeks before council and general elections in which Labour insiders fear some political fall-out from the secret deal, which both Labour and Conservative councillors agreed in private.
While Coventry City fans are divided over the entire saga, many on social media have expressed fury with the council for selling the Sky Blues' Ricoh home - which always depended on Sky Blues' income to be viable - to an out-of-town rugby club.
Coventry City's future is uncertain. Its current owners say the club cannot continue as tenants of Wasps at the Ricoh and want to build a new stadium to maximise commercial income. That would see the club playing nearby but outside their traditional domicile home city.
Council sources also say the 'retail scheme' could enable ordinary punters to place their bonds in ISAs to enable them to get tax breaks.
Sky Blues' owners Sisu have an appeal outstanding against their failed attempt at last year's judical review to claim the original council loan to ACL in January 2013 was an unlawful use of taxpayers' money.
Council sources claim if the loan is paid off it would bolster the council's ongoing argument that the loan was made at a commercial rate, and was not 'state aid'. The council still owns the Ricoh freehold.
Twenty-five high-profile Coventry City fans and professionals including academics, business people, lawyers, accountants and writers have called for a wide-ranging independent review into the Wasps deal, false council claims, use of taxpayers' money and other aspects of council conduct.
A response is awaited from communities secretary Eric Pickles, now held up until after the election. Councillors have said the council's independent auditor will scrutinise the deal later this year as part of an annual inspection of council accounts - which opponents say would be too limited.
Read more: Indebted Wasps may seek fans' loans and pay back council taxpayers | Coventry Observer
Our council sources say councillors have been briefed by senior council officers on Wasps' latest proposals to raise loans from a mixture of institutional investors, and fans - through a 'retail bond' scheme.
The 'retail bond' scheme would invite ordinary people, fans and possibly local companies to invest money as an "I owe you", with the expectation it would be returned by Wasps at some point in future.
It follows unconfirmed speculation for months that Wasps have been trying to raise similar monies from traditional lenders in the finance markets, partly to enable them to re-finance the loan and pay off the council in full.
Hotel Chocolate is among companies to have issued a 'retail bond' scheme. As a return on punters' investment, they issued free chocolate as a type of interest payment.
It is understood a third part of Wasps' plan is to raise money from the naming rights in the Ricoh Arena from a sponsor, who would pay potentially millions of pounds for the stadium to be re-named using their company name.
There is speculation that Jaguar Land Rover could be interested in the naming rights, which it is understood are due within the next two years.
Council sources say income from the naming rights could help pay off the £13.4million loan owed to the council since a secret deal in October last year. That deal saw indebted London Wasps Holdings Limited buy the Ricoh company Arena Coventry Limited on a massive 250-year lease for £5.5million - plus the loan - from previous ACL joint owners, the council and Alan Edward Higgs Charity.
Council sources say it is hoped the council loan could be paid back in full within months - rather than the planned 20 years - when Wasps intend to issue a prospectus for the retail bond scheme.
The prospectus would claim business has significantly increased since their Ricoh move. Wasps maintain their turnover is increasing - albeit from a low base - since their switch from Adams Park in High Wycombe. Their Ricoh attendances have been bolstered by free, cheap and 'buy one, get one free' ticket offers.
It is not known if Wasps might seek to borrow to pay off the council loan against the future income they expect from the naming rights next year.
We revealed the latest 2013/4 accounts for London Wasps Holdings Limited - owners of stadium operating company Arena Coventry Limited - show £22million debt, including loans which have been borrowed against future rugby Premiership income.
The last ACL accounts, for 2013/4, recorded £400,000 losses. The Coventry Observer has exposed inaccurate public claims by council leader Ann Lucas about ACL's finances. We have also highlighted how the council's Labour leaders had repeatedly stated they would only expose city taxpayers to risk from loans in viable and sustainable companies.
News of the possibility of the council loan being paid back in full comes three weeks before council and general elections in which Labour insiders fear some political fall-out from the secret deal, which both Labour and Conservative councillors agreed in private.
While Coventry City fans are divided over the entire saga, many on social media have expressed fury with the council for selling the Sky Blues' Ricoh home - which always depended on Sky Blues' income to be viable - to an out-of-town rugby club.
Coventry City's future is uncertain. Its current owners say the club cannot continue as tenants of Wasps at the Ricoh and want to build a new stadium to maximise commercial income. That would see the club playing nearby but outside their traditional domicile home city.
Council sources also say the 'retail scheme' could enable ordinary punters to place their bonds in ISAs to enable them to get tax breaks.
Sky Blues' owners Sisu have an appeal outstanding against their failed attempt at last year's judical review to claim the original council loan to ACL in January 2013 was an unlawful use of taxpayers' money.
Council sources claim if the loan is paid off it would bolster the council's ongoing argument that the loan was made at a commercial rate, and was not 'state aid'. The council still owns the Ricoh freehold.
Twenty-five high-profile Coventry City fans and professionals including academics, business people, lawyers, accountants and writers have called for a wide-ranging independent review into the Wasps deal, false council claims, use of taxpayers' money and other aspects of council conduct.
A response is awaited from communities secretary Eric Pickles, now held up until after the election. Councillors have said the council's independent auditor will scrutinise the deal later this year as part of an annual inspection of council accounts - which opponents say would be too limited.
Read more: Indebted Wasps may seek fans' loans and pay back council taxpayers | Coventry Observer
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Not disagreeing with the point, but other clubs are not our competition and what they do is as relevant as asking what New York Yankees do.
Our competition is family entertainment in the local area.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Whilst I'll concede that they might have done that for the first match at the Ricoh do you have anything to prove that they're still doing that? Or is this the same as when we were in Northampton and Tim was accused of giving them away and there was no evidence of this (to my knowledge) found.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well, given they have publicly declared a 50% revenue increase and crowds are 400% up its believable isn't it?
Other than the last game tickets have been available from many sources as well as the BOGOF offers. Free tickets to sports clubs, schools and businesses have been common place.
