With the Thorn comment 'We've picked up quite a few injuries' (2 Viewers)

[Nonleagueherewecome]

All 3 of our strikers were injured against Bristol. Hussey wouldn't have been on the pitch at any other club in the division. And there were others carrying knocks. Never mind the fact that Bristol could change 6 players from Saturdays line up, and had eight loans in total in their squad, including 2 Premiership strikers on the bench.

LBB, all the clubs you list-the managers of every single one has more budget than Thorn. Our rightful place in this division this season is rock bottom. I can understand how people don't like that notion, but we are crap: no doubt about that! Yet the bunch of cast-offs, left-overs and kids have still managed to keep going until the last few games-the unbeaten run being quite staggering for a team in our state-until asking them to play 2-3 games a week when they're on their last legs has proven to be a bridge too far.

For people who defended the manager once and don't now, it's not that the manager has started doing things worthy of blame (indeed many former critics have praised him in the last month or so!), but rather that your patience has ran out. The situation looks unresolvable, and you're angry. You turn on the manager: I stick to my guns and aim them right between the eyes of the only target worthy of considering, the one I've been livid with since January 2011 (when they completely stiched up Aidy by giving away Doyler and loaning out Thomas just as our other CM's were injured): SISU.

 

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[Glaziers green top]

Fact! Here,here, well said

 

[LeamingtonBootBoy]

That is ridiculous. I hate the labelling of anyone who's trying to see the bigger picture as opposed to simply calling for the sacking of the latest manager - yet again - being a blind pro-Thorn sycophant. Find me - please, please find it - a poster on here who sees nothing but unconditional good in all he does. They don't exist, yet the same diatribe gets trotted out time and time again.

The reality? Thorn's been dealt an impossible hand. He makes mistakes. Every manager in this league, and every other league does. He made mistakes last year too, but he had the players at his disposal to cover his arse. The same quality of players our peers still possess. Those players - every single one - one, by one has been sold underneath him. If the squad was barely good enough last year, how can it be good enough this year, when shaven from every asset at it's disposal?

Thorn could have resigned. Doubtless to be labelled a quitter by all and sundry. He didn't. Why so? Well perhaps he thought he could turn things around. The recent run of form suggests he may have been right in that regard, although perhaps too late, who yet knows?

I'm not going to pull LBB's post apart as I disagree with much of it, but respect his heart-felt position. However, one simple, simple question has to be considered....

Our first team squad is funded amongst the bottom three in this division. Where do you expect for us therefore to finish?

I agree MMM that AT is not solely to blame and he has had some difficult circumstances to deal with, but as manager/tactician/decision maker on the playing side, he will have to carry the can....I state clearly that I also hold some players and MOST IMPORTANTLY SISU to blame....I do not think AT is the major factor for our demise, but he does have some blame to shoulder.

 

[LeamingtonBootBoy]

LBB, all the clubs you list-the managers of every single one has more budget than Thorn. Our rightful place in this division this season is rock bottom. I can understand how people don't like that notion, but we are crap: no doubt about that!.

Sorry NLHWC, I respect your opinion as a fellow CCFC fan, but after watching nearly every game home and away this season, I have to disagree...I have seen several teams who we should realistically have been challenging/above.....

Even if you only go to the home games, what have you seen from Barnsley, Brighton, Bristol C, Pompey, Forest, Watford, Palace that makes you think that we should be rock bottom.

There are no outstanding teams in this league....it is a poor league and to be 3rd from bottom (2nd from bottom on points won) means that serious questions need to be answered by those on and off the pitch who can influence our abysmal position.

 

[LeamingtonBootBoy]

You turn on the manager: .

No, I have NOT turned on the manager...I have merely highlighted his part - in my opinion - in the debacle that has been this season. I blame SISU more than Thorn...but that doesn't mean that you can't also point some of your guns in the path of Thorn and some players.........:thinking about:

 

[Otis]

It has to be said, if we are so bad and deserve to be rock bottom, how come we have been in so many games this season and for so long in the matches of these games this season and how come we haven't been thrashed more often?

Said it eleventy billion times, this team is not that bad. It's just a squad that's too small.

Now we are really suffering because of that lack of depth, but we were underachieving before Christmas and there were many games that we let slip due to errors both on and off the pitch.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The likes of Doncaster and Bristol City find themselves in the bottom reaches of the table despite having access to a full complement of players and back up to choose from. We find ourselves there because we've done well to field a matchday squad.

 

[Mumford and Daughter]

Would that be Bristol City who were able to make 6 changes for the game they played us, including loan players from West Brom and QPR who changed the game? For that game, we had a squad of 14 outfield players to choose from, by the way. Of which 6 were aged 20 or younger. Hmmm. Nice example. Or Barnsley? Would that be the team who signed Drinkwater from United, who we wanted but couldn't afford? Or Peterborough who've just signed a player on loan to a £1.2m move in the summer?

Looks like the clubs 'off the top of your head' aren't great examples. Can you think of any better ones from somewhere else?

bristol game , we had injuries and we have players on loan from man u and man city, your point?
Barnsley didnt sign sign Drinkwater, leicester did in january 4 months ago feeble excuse
Peterboro JUST signed a player because they sold bennett for 3mill to norwich. how much they spent this season before that?

 

[LeamingtonBootBoy]

We have an international keeper, and ex-England under 21 defender, a captain who is rated one of the best defenders in this league, Man Utd and Man City loanees, a £500,000 striker signed only a few months ago, a international midfielder/captain in the heart of our midfield, Mr Coventry who was sold for over £2m only a few years ago, an array of talented youngsters coming through the ranks.....

With the above, we should be better than 2nd from bottom (based on points)....surely......?? :thinking about:

 

[Mumford and Daughter]

We have an international keeper, and ex-England under 21 defender, a captain who is rated one of the best defenders in this league, Man Utd and Man City loanees, a £500,000 striker signed only a few months ago, a international midfielder/captain in the heart of our midfield, Mr Coventry who was sold for over £2m only a few years ago, an array of talented youngsters coming through the ranks.....

With the above, we should be better than 2nd from bottom (based on points)....surely......?? :thinking about:

exactly,,,, im not soley blaming thorn but he has contributed to our downfall

when posters say he was given an impossible hand i disagree

 

[Macca]

Indirectly that's down to Sisu for going with the cheap option. We were never going to be in the position where we could afford having a manager who was going to take half a season cutting his teeth

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

bristol game , we had injuries and we have players on loan from man u and man city, your point?
Barnsley didnt sign sign Drinkwater, leicester did in january 4 months ago feeble excuse
Peterboro JUST signed a player because they sold bennett for 3mill to norwich. how much they spent this season before that?

Barnsley signed Drinkwater on loan at the time we were after him. He caught the eye of Leicestet who then signed him permanently. Learn your football, or don't bother posting.

Yea, I am aware Posh have sold; but since last season we've sold or lost King, Turner, Westwood, Gunnarsson and Jutkiewitz; loaned out McPake, ROD and Eastwood. Yes, we've got two loanees in. Bristol City have eight. That's four times many if your maths is as good as your football knowledge.

Your arguments don't even come close to holding water

 

[Grendel]

Barnsley signed Drinkwater on loan at the time we were after him. He caught the eye of Leicestet who then signed him permanently. Learn your football, or don't bother posting.

Yea, I am aware Posh have sold; but since last season we've sold or lost King, Turner, Westwood, Gunnarsson and Jutkiewitz; loaned out McPake, ROD and Eastwood. Yes, we've got two loanees in. Bristol City have eight. That's four times many if your maths is as good as your football knowledge.

Your arguments don't even come close to holding water

Except you conveniently brush over the Peterborough point as that is an uncomfortable one. Small squad same as us, very few profile players, no major signings until a sale in January, sold their version of Marlon King before the season started. Honestly is that squad any worse than ours.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Oh and M + D, we aren't getting any more tickets for Saints today according to the ticket office.

 

[stupot07]

Except you conveniently brush over the Peterborough point as that is an uncomfortable one. Small squad same as us, very few profile players, no major signings until a sale in January, sold their version of Marlon King before the season started. Honestly is that squad any worse than ours.

Nope, it's actually probably better than our, particularly in the attacking third.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Except you conveniently brush over the Peterborough point as that is an uncomfortable one. Small squad same as us, very few profile players, no major signings until a sale in January, sold their version of Marlon King before the season started. Honestly is that squad any worse than ours.

I don't brush over. I simply don't have time to script War and Peace as I'm sitting on the M6 in the spaghetti junction queue.

That squad is better and more settled than ours, and to pretend otherwise disingenuous in the extreme

 

[Grendel]

Nope, it's actually probably better than our, particularly in the attacking third.

Yes - miswording on my part, In squad terms they have a very similar average age, their players have from what I can see played collectively fewer games at this level and they were most bookies favourites to finish bottom when the season started. I cannot see that - I know why you mention the forward area as that is the clear weakness of this squad (though some on here have said we are better off without Juke)

 

[Grendel]

I don't brush over. I simply don't have time to script War and Peace as I'm sitting on the M6 in the spaghetti junction queue.

That squad is better and more settled than ours, and to pretend otherwise disingenuous in the extreme

If you make a statement that the squad is better offering a subsequent platitude is not worthy of debate.

OK their squad is not better and more settled that ours, and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous in the extreme.

Most bookies had them and Barnsley to finish bottom of the league at the start of the season - why?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Tell you what, when I get to the office; I'll sit down and prove you wrong - yet again - and you can skulk off and return with the same rhetoric as if it never happened. Until a week later when we'll be back here yet again...

 

[Macca]

Jeez get a life guys!

 

[Grendel]

Tell you what, when I get to the office; I'll sit down and prove you wrong - yet again - and you can skulk off and return with the same rhetoric as if it never happened. Until a week later when we'll be back here yet again...

Look forward to it I will not be holding my breath. No doubt players like Boyd as once 3 years ago he attracted interest of a large fee he is a superstar etc. etc. The vast majority of the squad is signed from lower leagues and / or have been with them a long time (hence your "settled" comment). The problem is you are so in denial of the obvious that you refuse to acknowledge any truths.

By the way where are Doncaster? Was I wrong about that. Mmmmmmmmm

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

The problem is you are so in denial of the obvious that you refuse to acknowledge any truths.

What was the phrase that comment brought to mind?

Ah yes - "Physician heal thyself"

 

[stupot07]

Yes - miswording on my part, In squad terms they have a very similar average age, their players have from what I can see played collectively fewer games at this level and they were most bookies favourites to finish bottom when the season started. I cannot see that - I know why you mention the forward area as that is the clear weakness of this squad (though some on here have said we are better off without Juke)

I'm definitely not one of those who think we're better off without Juke. I think the bookies overhyped the importance of CMS, they still had a lot of goals from midfield last season, Boyd was 2nd top scorer, as well as 8/9 goals each from Tomlin and McCann - in fact they scored 32 league goals between those 3 players last season, and the 3 of them have continued to score goals this season - 22 league goals.

 

[Grendel]

What was the phrase that comment brought to mind?

Ah yes - "Physician heal thyself"

Very good even I find that funny.

 

[Astute]

If you make a statement that the squad is better offering a subsequent platitude is not worthy of debate.

OK their squad is not better and more settled that ours, and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous in the extreme.

Most bookies had them and Barnsley to finish bottom of the league at the start of the season - why?

We were most bookies favourites to go down at the start of the season

 

[Mumford and Daughter]

Oh and M + D, we aren't getting any more tickets for Saints today according to the ticket office.

they said yesterday another 900 will be on sale

 

[Mumford and Daughter]

We were most bookies favourites to go down at the start of the season

as were watford look where they are

 

[Grendel]

I'm definitely not one of those who think we're better off without Juke. I think the bookies overhyped the importance of CMS, they still had a lot of goals from midfield last season, Boyd was 2nd top scorer, as well as 8/9 goals each from Tomlin and McCann - in fact they scored 32 league goals between those 3 players last season, and the 3 of them have continued to score goals this season - 22 league goals.

It's impossible to argue that their forward line is better than ours if goals are the measure but then our defence must be a lot better than theirs as they have let in 71 versus our 58.

 

[Grendel]

as were watford look where they are

And Barnsley and Peterborough...

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

they said yesterday another 900 will be on sale

And today they said that they hadn't received any more and won't be receiving any more either.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

These are the players who have actually played for Posh this season. Not those who have sat on the bench, those who have played. I have listed their ages, and number of league games to show their experience…

Lewis, 24, 217 games
Jones, 25, 244 games

Little, 23, 163 games
Zakuani, 25, 277 games
Brisley, 21, 151 games
Alcock, 24, 163 games

Boyd, 26, 392 games
McCann, 32, 505 games
Rowe, 23, 206 games
Newell, 19, 14 games
Kearns, 20, 24 games
Frecklington, 26, 235 games

Tomlin, 23, 259 games
Ball, 22, 95 games
Sinclair, 24, 191 games
Hibbert, 26, 177 games
Taylor, 24, 45 games
Barnett, 26 123 games

Tell you what sticks out, the numbers of players; not too young, not too old with plenty of league experience. They really have 3 players who are young, and/or inexperienced.

I wonder where these would fit in?

Clarke, 20, 51 games
Cameron, 20, 40 games
Christie, 19, 40 games
Willis, 17, 1 game
Deegan, 24, 53 games
Norwood, 21 (this week), 40 games
Thomas, 19, 29 games
Birigimana, 18, 26 games
Ruffels, 18, 2 games
Nimely, 20, 29 games

There is literally, no comparison whatsoever

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

How does that comparison shape up when you add in all the rest of our players? Clingan, Keogh, Cranie, Murphy, McSheffrey, heck even Eastwood have all racked up a high number of league games in their time.

 

[Mumford and Daughter]

These are the players who have actually played for Posh this season. Not those who have sat on the bench, those who have played. I have listed their ages, and number of league games to show their experience…

Lewis, 24, 217 games
Jones, 25, 244 games

Little, 23, 163 games
Zakuani, 25, 277 games
Brisley, 21, 151 games
Alcock, 24, 163 games

Boyd, 26, 392 games
McCann, 32, 505 games
Rowe, 23, 206 games
Newell, 19, 14 games
Kearns, 20, 24 games
Frecklington, 26, 235 games

Tomlin, 23, 259 games
Ball, 22, 95 games
Sinclair, 24, 191 games
Hibbert, 26, 177 games
Taylor, 24, 45 games
Barnett, 26 123 games

Tell you what sticks out, the numbers of players; not too young, not too old with plenty of league experience. They really have 3 players who are young, and/or inexperienced.

I wonder where these would fit in?

Clarke, 20, 51 games
Cameron, 20, 40 games
Christie, 19, 40 games
Willis, 17, 1 game
Deegan, 24, 53 games
Norwood, 21 (this week), 40 games
Thomas, 19, 29 games
Birigimana, 18, 26 games
Ruffels, 18, 2 games
Nimely, 20, 29 games

There is literally, no comparison whatsoever

so your argument goes from money to age

id say the quality of our players is better then there which end of the day matters the most

take for example wigan last night, your argument went out the window , a team selling players and not spending much win there and looked more then comfiortable through large parts of the game

manager like Martinez worked mircales past 2 seasons , it can be done with a manager who knows what hes doing

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

For that matter, Brighton, you could add in Hreidarsson at 37 with 561 games, or Platt at 34 and - believe it or not 617 games. That's why there's no point in averaging the stats, as Hermon's influence compared to his 4 games for us skew things in a disproportional fashion.

What is clear is that they have had the luxury of using, or having to use 3 young and/or inexperienced players; whereas we are already into double figures - and will probably increase that this evening; and that the balance of their squad command a decent level of experience.

They are also at the right age, and it's well known that knocks primarily effect the older player, and confidence the younger player. So, they've actually used - therefore - less players than we have, hence my claim that they are more settled

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

so your argument goes from money to age

id say the quality of our players is better then there which end of the day matters the most

take for example wigan last night, your argument went out the window , a team selling players and not spending much win there and looked more then comfiortable through large parts of the game

manager like Martinez worked mircales past 2 seasons , it can be done with a manager who knows what hes doing

Bleeding hell. No - it doesn't move from money to age. Can you not see that these experienced players would want more money than the inexperienced players I've listed? Why do you think we're using 18 year-old kids, as opposed to buying - even for a nominal fee - a player like Baker when we'd sign him, who'd command a fee and a higher salary!?!