Why NO Protests outside the Council House? (5 Viewers)

ohitsaidwalker king power · Sep 13, 2013

Nick said:
I'm not saying it's a 50 / 50 blame game but I think the trust should be pressuring all sides.

Root cause analysis concludes in my mind that the main protagonists in this whole sorry affair are the owners of the football club. Not a shared view by all, but by most.
Whilst I long for both parties to re open negotiations/talks so as I can watch my football team in the City of its origin, like I have done for the past 35 years the notion that applying equal pressure will achieve this reconciliation as per your original concept is simply not realistic or to be candid appropriate, fair or balanced. When the owners took the ball away to play they changed the game. Let them pay the ultimate price with financial ruin, and whilst I fear that that might mean the end of CCFC- then so be it- we can rise again. Which is why I support the NOPM campaign
:blue:

Nick · Sep 13, 2013

rondog1973 said:
Would be food & drink to Sisu's propaganda machine were there to be protests staged aimed at ACL.

So the Trust aren't helping the ACL PR machine at all in any of this?

italiahorse · Sep 13, 2013

All these debates go round and round in circles.

We need to know accurately what SISU have offered and what the ACL response was.
Alternatively we need to know what ACL have offered and what the SISU response was.

Should the Trust not set a Q and A session so we can get to the bottom of it.
Set it up for the day after the JR appeal.
We can then see who is holding this up.

Currently we are basing everything on "ACL have stopped discussions so we have moved on" or "SISU want the stadium for nothing so we have finished talking"

Get the crucial information to see what is blocking progress. Otherwise we just keep guessing and bickering over other people giving an opinion..

Nick · Sep 13, 2013

italiahorse said:
All these debates go round and round in circles.

We need to know accurately what SISU have offered and what the ACL response was.
Alternatively we need to know what ACL have offered and what the SISU response was.

Should the Trust not set a Q and A session so we can get to the bottom of it.
Set it up for the day after the JR appeal.
We can then see who is holding this up.

Currently we are basing everything on "ACL have stopped discussions so we have moved on" or "SISU want the stadium for nothing so we have finished talking"

Get the crucial information to see what is blocking progress. Otherwise we just keep guessing and bickering over other people giving an opinion..

Exactly, if they can get ACL to say "we have offered x, x and x" then it is over to SISU to give a come back isn't it? If ACL are innocent in everything they would have no issues with that surely and then it puts no doubts over their side of it?

ohitsaidwalker king power · Sep 13, 2013

Nick said:
So the Trust aren't helping the ACL PR machine at all in any of this?

There are a number of posters on here, and I fear you are one that are afraid to nail their colours to a mast and state their held view, whichever side it maybe, happy to play the "equal to blame" card. I suspect your tendency to follow this path is promoted by the role you hold i.e moderator- hence your middle ground approach- not a criticism, I respect that.
However its time to draw a conclusion- a constant even keel leads to the proverbial ship following the same course. The course plotted so far by SISU in their 5/6 year tenure has led us to where we are now, sure a contribution from ACL etal hasnt helped, but SISU are the main protagonists, with a very clear strategy to acquire the Ricoh as their only goal- you might not agree-its time to show now, no more middle ground.

Nick · Sep 13, 2013

Why do I have do nail colours to a mast? Why can't somebody think all sides have done wrong?

ohitsaidwalker king power · Sep 13, 2013

Nick said:
Why do I have do nail colours to a mast? Why can't somebody think all sides have done wrong?

And so we go around in ever decreasing circles.......because they havent in equal measure-all sides have contributed but some contributed more- or do you think they have in equal measure?

Nick · Sep 13, 2013

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
And so we go around in ever decreasing circles.......because they havent in equal measure-all sides have contributed but some contributed more- or do you think they have in equal measure?

Did I say it's in equal measure or just that all sides have played a part? This includes elliott, hoffman and the previous regime.

When the trust are hanging onto hoffman and acls word it is always going to have a slightly biased view isn't it?

Why would I need to put a % on how much each is to blame to be able to say that each side is to blame?

ohitsaidwalker king power · Sep 13, 2013

I guess we will have to agree to disagree... you're not accepting my point nor I yours.

ohitsaidwalker king power · Sep 13, 2013

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
I guess we will have to agree to disagree... you're not accepting my point nor I yours.

Nick said:
Because the trust are a fans group, surely they should be taking action against all parties on behalf of all fans / members?

If they refuse to take action against anybody other than SISU it just goes to show it is pretty much SISU out and only against SISU and not balanced like it should be?

If people are disagreeing with the action taken, maybe the fans group should listen to all opinions and come up with a plan to get ALL fans onside? You know, representing a fans group and all.

It is all well and good putting yourself up to run a fans group but you can't moan when people ask for other action to be taken or disagree with the action taken surely?

Didn't people join the trust to be represented by them? Isn't it like me joining the RAC and then calling on them for help and them saying "tow it yourself mate"?

Nick said:
Exactly, if they can get ACL to say "we have offered x, x and x" then it is over to SISU to give a come back isn't it? If ACL are innocent in everything they would have no issues with that surely and then it puts no doubts over their side of it?

My original point being-that you stated a Balanced action by SBT is what you advocate- Balanced typically means equal.... when the root cause isnt equal,(my opinion) why should the protest be equal in return?

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction?

Nick · Sep 13, 2013

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
My original point being-that you stated a Balanced action by SBT is what you advocate- Balanced typically means equal.... when the root cause isnt equal,(my opinion) why should the protest be equal in return?

Sorry, by balanced I mean action to all parties. Again I'm not saying protest against each party 3 days a week each or saying everything has to be perfectly equal. At the minute acl, elliott and hoffman have fans groups in their pocket and they are effectively a free pr company. I'm not saying the blame is equal to all sides but action to all sides is needed (again, I'm not saying each protest should be timed and stopped based on a blame percentage).

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 13, 2013

What's wrong with wanting in an ideal world all out and none back? I have a lot of hate to spread around!

rondog1973 · Sep 13, 2013

Nick said:
So the Trust aren't helping the ACL PR machine at all in any of this?

It's all about focus Nick. To my mind, most fans acknowledge that Sisu are the main protagonists in this whole sorry affair. Maintain the focus of the protest on them. Would just send out a mixed message if ACL were targeted at this stage, not that, to my mind, they have done a great deal wrong anyways.

skybluetony176 · Sep 13, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
IMO SISU's choice to leave the AHC was a pretty dumb one and flawed from the start.

the same as their decision to move the team to sixfields

bigfatronssba · Sep 13, 2013

Nick said:
Sorry, by balanced I mean action to all parties. Again I'm not saying protest against each party 3 days a week each or saying everything has to be perfectly equal. At the minute acl, elliott and hoffman have fans groups in their pocket and they are effectively a free pr company. I'm not saying the blame is equal to all sides but action to all sides is needed (again, I'm not saying each protest should be timed and stopped based on a blame percentage).

What exactly do you think ACL want with all this PR?

Why would they care what customers of a business that operates in Northampton think?

What do ACL have to gain from all this?

stupot07 · Sep 13, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
What exactly do you think ACL want with all this PR?

Why would they care what customers of a business that operates in Northampton think?

What do ACL have to gain from all this?

They want everyone to 100% blame Sisu, that's what they get from the PR.

bigfatronssba · Sep 13, 2013

stupot07 said:
They want everyone to 100% blame Sisu, that's what they get from the PR.

Yes but what do they gain from that?

Do you really think they spend thousands in legal fees just so the Coventry public still think their nice?

ohitsaidwalker king power · Sep 13, 2013

Nick said:
Sorry, by balanced I mean action to all parties. Again I'm not saying protest against each party 3 days a week each or saying everything has to be perfectly equal. At the minute acl, elliott and hoffman have fans groups in their pocket and they are effectively a free pr company. I'm not saying the blame is equal to all sides but action to all sides is needed (again, I'm not saying each protest should be timed and stopped based on a blame percentage).

"in Pocket"? thats because the majority hold the view AGAINST SISU-because SISU are the main protagonists... we live in a democracy.... people demonstrate their feeling through the ballot box, in this case their feet in not going to Sixfield.. I'd firmly dispute that fans groups are "in the pocket" of ACL/Joe and co as you describe more so aligned in their popular view- because they are right.
SISU totally alientated me when they moved the football club- totally. Prior to I had a modicum of sympathy with their argument with regard to their want to maximise revenue streams for the good of the club and a reduction in the excessive rent. They are in danger of alienating a whole generation.
:blue:

Nick · Sep 13, 2013

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
"in Pocket"? thats because the majority hold the view AGAINST SISU-because SISU are the main protagonists... we live in a democracy.... people demonstrate their feeling through the ballot box, in this case their feet in not going to Sixfield.. I'd firmly dispute that fans groups are "in the pocket" of ACL/Joe and co as you describe more so aligned in their popular view- because they are right.
SISU totally alientated me when they moved the football club- totally. Prior to I had a modicum of sympathy with their argument with regard to their want to maximise revenue streams for the good of the club and a reduction in the excessive rent. They are in danger of alienating a whole generation.
:blue:

Of course they are in the pocket,look at the arse licking elliott got at the legends game as an example. He was made out like a cult hero!

Hoffman stands on a hill and people queue up to get pictures taken with him.

Acl do use the trust for pr, of course they do.

Would any of the promises of fan ownership cloud judgement?

All I am asking is for a bit of action and insight into all other parties rather than just sisu out.

ohitsaidwalker king power · Sep 13, 2013

Nick said:
Of course they are in the pocket,look at the arse licking elliott got at the legends game as an example. He was made out like a cult hero!

Hoffman stands on a hill and people queue up to get pictures taken with him.

Acl do use the trust for pr, of course they do.

Would any of the promises of fan ownership cloud judgement?

All I am asking is for a bit of action and insight into all other parties rather than just sisu out.

I think the actions of some- i.e the purported "arse licking" should not be confused with what many think-Im certainly no Elliot fanboy- and Mr Hoffman flatters to deceive or so it would appear- but they undoubtedly share the same view as me in wanting SISU out...

Fan ownership is as far fetched as Fishers stadium plans.. not going to happen.
Perhaps you should consider an emoticon that describes an Anti ACL view point then to provide a "balance"?

stupot07 · Sep 13, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
Yes but what do they gain from that?

Do you really think they spend thousands in legal fees just so the Coventry public still think their nice?

So why did ACL hire the expensive London based PR firm Weber Shandwick?

skybluetony176 · Sep 13, 2013

stupot07 said:
So why did ACL hire the expensive London based PR firm Weber Shandwick?

possibly because they promote a stadium :thinking about:

Nick · Sep 13, 2013

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
Perhaps you should consider an emoticon that describes an Anti ACL view point then to provide a "balance"?

Oh dear, getting a bit petty now? First I had to work out a % of blame and now you want me to make you a smiley?

Why should it be that sisu are 60% and acl are 40% but as sisu is more to blame then action will only be at them?.before you start, they were just random numbers.

What's so hard to understand that if each side was being pressured it may get something sorted quicker or if neutral action like the march which didn't divide fans happened it would get a better turnout?

Nick · Sep 13, 2013

skybluetony176 said:
possibly because they promote a stadium :thinking about:

As do the trust

stupot07 · Sep 13, 2013

skybluetony176 said:
possibly because they promote a stadium :thinking about:

From an article by Les Reid

"We sought a response to that rumour from Weber Shandwick, the London-based PR giant hired by ACL to "crisis manage" media enquiries, including into the now stalled talks over Sisu acquiring the Higgs charity's 50 per cent share in ACL."

http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/talkingpolitics/2012/11/the-football-club-the-council.html

The article suggests they were brought in response to the Ricoh rent row, rather than general PR and publicity.

ohitsaidwalker king power · Sep 13, 2013

Nick said:
Oh dear, getting a bit petty now? First I had to work out a % of blame and now you want me to make you a smiley?

Why should it be that sisu are 60% and acl are 40% but as sisu is more to blame then action will only be at them?.before you start, they were just random numbers.

What's so hard to understand that if each side was being pressured it may get something sorted quicker or if neutral action like the march which didn't divide fans happened it would get a better turnout?

No not petty and it wouldnt be one that I use for sure, but your argument was previously wanting a balanced approach in terms of pressure born to the parties involved- and so my ACL out emocion was a genuine suggestion not a petty remark, sorry if read as such. Re % you are misrepresenting our previous debate- at no point did I ask you to work out a % balance, please read what we exchanged again.
:blue:

Nick · Sep 13, 2013

ohitsaidwalker king power said:
No not petty and it wouldnt be one that I use for sure, but your argument was previously wanting a balanced approach in temrs of pressure born to the parties involved- and so my ACL out emocion was a genuine suggestion not a petty remark at sorry if read as such. Re % you are misrepresenting our previous debate- at no point did I ask you to work out a % balance, please read what we exchanged again.

By balanced I meant all sides have a part to play, I agree it isn't all even but as all sides have a part to pay they should all be pressured. Even robinson and people that far back if we can to get answers.... they wouldn't be as constructive as acl / sisu but why not? They are at fault and seem to be living happily ever and totally quiet...

I bet acl.are loving it, they can pretty much put words in the trust's mouth and off they go with some things..

They could get a cheeky little rumour out if they wanted to and it would spread like wildfire look at all this haskell stuff...

It hasn't been recently though as they have been quite quiet I do admit.

bigfatronssba · Sep 14, 2013

Nick said:
As do the trust

Shock horror! A football supporters trust promoting their home ground.

You are right though, Liverpool fans never big up Anfield, and Newcastle fans hate St James park.

ohitsaidwalker king power · Sep 14, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
and Newcastle fans hate St James park.

at some point I recall how they rejoiced at its name changing to the "Sports Direct Stadium" or something similar....imagine if they had had to move to say Sunderland for a groundshare......I guess the Magpies would have flown quietly?

ohitsaidwalker king power · Sep 14, 2013

Nick said:
By balanced I meant all sides have a part to play, I agree it isn't all even but as all sides have a part to pay they should all be pressured. Even robinson and people that far back if we can to get answers.... they wouldn't be as constructive as acl / sisu but why not? They are at fault and seem to be living happily ever and totally quiet...

I bet acl.are loving it, they can pretty much put words in the trust's mouth and off they go with some things..

They could get a cheeky little rumour out if they wanted to and it would spread like wildfire look at all this haskell stuff...

It hasn't been recently though as they have been quite quiet I do admit.

Agree- all parties have a part to play in reconcilliation.
ACL using the trust as a vehicle for propoganda? Not sure as I'm convinced- agree they are aligned in aspiration i.e wanting CCFC to play at the Ricoh-I think we all are('cept Pete from Cheylesmore!!) as such I guess that might lead to a shared "press" position.
But SISU arent adverse to the odd "leak" or little white lie in an effort to campaign popular public opinion of favour are they?

sky blue john · Sep 14, 2013

can't be bothered to read whole thread but just wanted to know the date and numbers you have for this town hall demo come march ?
Im sure you will be able to count on the likes of council hating Grendel !!!!

Grendel · Sep 14, 2013

sky blue john said:
can't be bothered to read whole thread but just wanted to know the date and numbers you have for this town hall demo come march ?
Im sure you will be able to count on the likes of council hating Grendel !!!!

So you judge the depth of feeling and protest against something by the physical number of people outside a building do you?

sky blue john · Sep 14, 2013

Grendel said:
So you judge the depth of feeling and protest against something by the physical
number of people outside a building
do you?

No im interested and admire anyone that actually gets off their arse and protest for what they believe in !!!
I am not a fan of the trust but i respect that they are trying to do something to get ccfc back in Coventry !!!
You for one Grendel and there have
been others that have belittled the hill
intent !!!
So here's your chance to get yourself and some others together and do your bit, especially with your feelings towards the council

sky blue john · Sep 14, 2013

Also Grendel please don't do your normal trick and answer a question with a question or sarcasm ?
What im saying pretty much is have you got the balls put up or shut up ?
Are you going to protest against the council for their part in this debacle ?

torchomatic · Sep 14, 2013

Obviously they'll never be a protest outside the town hall as many like to ignore CCCs role in the whole affair !!!!!!!!!!

sky blue john said:
can't be bothered to read whole thread but just wanted to know the date and numbers you have for this town hall demo come march ?
Im sure you will be able to count on the likes of council hating Grendel !!!!

Why NO Protests outside the Council House? (5 Viewers)

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