SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
About time this ends, soldiers are dying on both sides. Ukraine will have to accept some losses unfortunately or it will never end
About time this ends, soldiers are dying on both sides. Ukraine will have to accept some losses unfortunately or it will never endNot long to go until Ukraine learns its fate, then....
Out of interest, why should Ukraine have to make territorial concessions to end a war it didn’t start?About time this ends, soldiers are dying on both sides. Ukraine will have to accept some losses unfortunately or it will never end
It's not right but it's not something new in war either.Out of interest, why should Ukraine have to make territorial concessions to end a war it didn’t start?
It’s just many comments have been made that ‘compromises’ must be made, yet few seem to say what compromises Russia needs to make when it is the one responsible for the conflict.It's not right but it's not something new in war either.
It’s just many comments have been made that ‘compromises’ must be made, yet few seem to say what compromises Russia needs to make when it is the one responsible for the conflict.
Might makes right. Russia is bigger than Ukraine so clearly Ukraine should hand over its land. Israel is bigger than Palestine so clearly Palestine should let itself be annexed.SB has been team Russia from day one so not surprising he backs capitulation now.
I've wanted the war to be stopped ASAP. Ideally, with Putin brought to face justice, but we all know that's unlikely to happen.SB has been team Russia from day one so not surprising he backs capitulation now.
What should happen is a full Russian withdrawal, a full payment of reparations by Russia and Putin himself should be hanging in The Hague.I've wanted the war to be stopped ASAP. Ideally, with Putin brought to face justice, but we all know that's unlikely to happen.
The idea that I am "Team Russia" is just ridiculous.
It's not going to happen. What is more likely is that Russia will keep the land is currently occupies and there will be some security guarantee for Ukraine, while both Russia and the USA will benefit economically from the rebuilding that will happen and other wider opportunities that Trump will inevitably want to exploit for the USA's gain.What should happen is a full Russian withdrawal, a full payment of reparations by Russia and Putin himself should be hanging in The Hague.
What I’d accept is rump Ukraine being allowed into NATO. Putin gets to keep his stolen land, avoid punishment for his crimes and his country doesn’t have to pay the bill for the destruction it caused. All he has to compromise on is NATO membership.
Yet even that is seen as ‘unreasonable’.
So Russia makes no compromises?It's not going to happen. What is more likely is that Russia will keep the land is currently occupies and there will be some security guarantee for Ukraine, while both Russia and the USA will benefit economically from the rebuilding that will happen and other wider opportunities that Trump will inevitably want to exploit for the USA's gain.
What are you expecting to happen?So Russia makes no compromises?
Why are you hiding behind the actions of ‘The West’? You seem quite comfortable making suggestions about what should be done with Israel, which ‘The West’ has consistently backed for much longer?What are you expecting to happen?
The West did nothing when part of Ukraine was annexed in 2014 and when a passenger plane was shot down - it was business as usual and it will be the same again in a couple of years.
What I expect to happen and what I think should happen are clearly not the same.What are you expecting to happen?
The West did nothing when part of Ukraine was annexed in 2014 and when a passenger plane was shot down - it was business as usual and it will be the same again in a couple of years.
So Russia makes no compromises?
In what way would that scenario be a compromise?That woukd be a compromise and one Putin likely will not accept
He does speak English, but very rarely in public.Do you think Putin speaks English ? Only takes a old skool translator to fuck something Trump says up or make a decision for their leader
“No compromises” = a compromise is classic Soviet thinking reallyIn what way would that scenario be a compromise?
No need. Trump speaks better Russian than Putin, believe me.He does speak English, but very rarely in public.
The scenario you’re describing is why both sides usually bring their own translators, although somewhat incredibly Trump’s top negotiator Steve Witkoff didn’t think to do this when he first met Putin.
Do you think Putin speaks English ? Only takes a old skool translator to fuck something Trump says up or make a decision for their leader
"An embarrassing translation error is fuelling concerns in Europe over Trump’s ability to negotiate an outcome with Putin that protects European sovereignty, as Putin demands formal control of at least four regions of eastern Ukraine.
German newspaper Bild reported that Trump’s special envoy, former New York property developer Steve Witkoff, misunderstood Putin’s goals during a meeting in Moscow last week.
Bild reported that Witkoff thought Russia was proposing its “peaceful withdrawal” from Kherson and Zaporizhzhia when he was instead demanding the withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from those regions."
Going into Friday’s meeting, she advised Mr Trump to keep his guard up and take a translator with him, lest he fall for the former KGB operative’s linguistic tricks.
“Trump doesn’t speak a lick of Russian,” she said. “The issue there is that Putin is always going to be one step ahead, because Putin’s English is certainly good enough to follow.
“You really need to be paying attention to this guy, how he holds himself when he says things, because he plays all these body language tricks as well.”
When world leaders speak behind closed doors, they conventionally bring their own interpreters.
Steve Witkoff, Mr Trump’s special envoy broke with convention in May when he relied on Russian translators during three high-level meetings with Putin, running the risk that some of the nuance in the Russian leader’s comments was lost in translation.
Ms Hill warned that without a fluent Russian speaker in the room, the president risks being secretly mocked by his counterpart.
“He does make fun of Trump. He uses the Russian language in a way that can be quite sarcastic and ironic. It’s totally lost in translation. I would have someone there telling (Trump) what this guy is saying and how he’s saying it.”
Ms Hill, a British Kremlin watcher and senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, said solo negotiations will “limit” what progress can be made on a ceasefire deal as “Trump isn’t going to have total recall”.
“Who knows what will have been discussed. Only Putin will probably have a good idea,” she said. “His team of people, they’ll be sure to have someone taking notes. That’s what the Russian interpreters do, they take notes at the same time.”
At this point his best bet would be to have someone in the room who the Russians think can't speak the language but is actually fluentHe does, and as @SBT says Witkoff went to meet Putin without his own translator which is mind bogglingly fucking stupid:
Now it looks like Trump is going to do the same thing:
At this point his best bet would be to have someone in the room who the Russians think can't speak the language but is actually fluent
No experts in the room: Donald Trump to meet Vladimir Putin after loss of Russia specialists
Reduction in federal workforce has hollowed out the number of knowledgeable officials in Washington
Might makes right. Russia is bigger than Ukraine so clearly Ukraine should hand over its land. Israel is bigger than Palestine so clearly Palestine should let itself be annexed.
Is it too late for Britain to have its empire back?
You really are a massive cry baby, time to have a reality checkMight makes right. Russia is bigger than Ukraine so clearly Ukraine should hand over its land. Israel is bigger than Palestine so clearly Palestine should let itself be annexed.
Is it too late for Britain to have its empire back?
What use is a security guarantee?It's not going to happen. What is more likely is that Russia will keep the land is currently occupies and there will be some security guarantee for Ukraine, while both Russia and the USA will benefit economically from the rebuilding that will happen and other wider opportunities that Trump will inevitably want to exploit for the USA's gain.
Concessions need to be made on both sides, and innocent soldiers on both sides need to stop dyingWhat use is a security guarantee?
If it's from the Americans then under Trump it's absoliutely meaningless as he just changes his mind mid sentence. If it's from the Russians then that's worked well with Putin before hasn't it!
If you want an actual security guarantee the only way that's coming is Ukraine being allowed NATO membership.
Anything else and you may as well just pencil in 2028 for Russia to invade again.
But I expect Ukraine to get thrown under the bus because everytime Trump comes out from meeting Putin he's basically parroting Putin and blaming Ukraine for the war. Hence why Putin only wants to deal with Trump.
It'll be NATO membership in all but name; Ukraine isn't going to officially join NATO.What use is a security guarantee?
If it's from the Americans then under Trump it's absoliutely meaningless as he just changes his mind mid sentence. If it's from the Russians then that's worked well with Putin before hasn't it!
If you want an actual security guarantee the only way that's coming is Ukraine being allowed NATO membership.
Anything else and you may as well just pencil in 2028 for Russia to invade again.
But I expect Ukraine to get thrown under the bus because everytime Trump comes out from meeting Putin he's basically parroting Putin and blaming Ukraine for the war. Hence why Putin only wants to deal with Trump.
I agree innocent soldiers on both sides need to stop dying.Concessions need to be made on both sides, and innocent soldiers on both sides need to stop dying
Because that would actually make Putin think twiceIt'll be NATO membership in all but name; Ukraine isn't going to officially join NATO.
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