USSR invades Ukraine. (17 Viewers)

[SkyBlueDom26]

Not long to go until Ukraine learns its fate, then....

About time this ends, soldiers are dying on both sides. Ukraine will have to accept some losses unfortunately or it will never end

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

About time this ends, soldiers are dying on both sides. Ukraine will have to accept some losses unfortunately or it will never end

Out of interest, why should Ukraine have to make territorial concessions to end a war it didn’t start?

 

[PVA]

Not long till Putin and Trump throw Ukraine under the bus more like.

Temporary ceasefire, give Russia some of Ukraine, let them rearm and come back for the rest in a few years.

Such peace.

 

[Sick Boy]

Out of interest, why should Ukraine have to make territorial concessions to end a war it didn’t start?

It's not right but it's not something new in war either.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's not right but it's not something new in war either.

It’s just many comments have been made that ‘compromises’ must be made, yet few seem to say what compromises Russia needs to make when it is the one responsible for the conflict.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s just many comments have been made that ‘compromises’ must be made, yet few seem to say what compromises Russia needs to make when it is the one responsible for the conflict.

SB has been team Russia from day one so not surprising he backs capitulation now.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

SB has been team Russia from day one so not surprising he backs capitulation now.

Might makes right. Russia is bigger than Ukraine so clearly Ukraine should hand over its land. Israel is bigger than Palestine so clearly Palestine should let itself be annexed.

Is it too late for Britain to have its empire back?

 

[Sick Boy]

SB has been team Russia from day one so not surprising he backs capitulation now.

I've wanted the war to be stopped ASAP. Ideally, with Putin brought to face justice, but we all know that's unlikely to happen.
The idea that I am "Team Russia" is just ridiculous.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I've wanted the war to be stopped ASAP. Ideally, with Putin brought to face justice, but we all know that's unlikely to happen.
The idea that I am "Team Russia" is just ridiculous.

What should happen is a full Russian withdrawal, a full payment of reparations by Russia and Putin himself should be hanging in The Hague.

What I’d accept is rump Ukraine being allowed into NATO. Putin gets to keep his stolen land, avoid punishment for his crimes and his country doesn’t have to pay the bill for the destruction it caused. All he has to compromise on is NATO membership.

Yet even that is seen as ‘unreasonable’.

 

[Sick Boy]

What should happen is a full Russian withdrawal, a full payment of reparations by Russia and Putin himself should be hanging in The Hague.

What I’d accept is rump Ukraine being allowed into NATO. Putin gets to keep his stolen land, avoid punishment for his crimes and his country doesn’t have to pay the bill for the destruction it caused. All he has to compromise on is NATO membership.

Yet even that is seen as ‘unreasonable’.

It's not going to happen. What is more likely is that Russia will keep the land is currently occupies and there will be some security guarantee for Ukraine, while both Russia and the USA will benefit economically from the rebuilding that will happen and other wider opportunities that Trump will inevitably want to exploit for the USA's gain.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's not going to happen. What is more likely is that Russia will keep the land is currently occupies and there will be some security guarantee for Ukraine, while both Russia and the USA will benefit economically from the rebuilding that will happen and other wider opportunities that Trump will inevitably want to exploit for the USA's gain.

So Russia makes no compromises?

 

[Sick Boy]

So Russia makes no compromises?

What are you expecting to happen?
The West did nothing when part of Ukraine was annexed in 2014 and when a passenger plane was shot down - it was business as usual and it will be the same again in a couple of years.

 

[CovValleyBoy]

Trump making all efforts to stop this war.
Let's wish him well in first establishing a ceasefire.

 

[SBT]

What are you expecting to happen?
The West did nothing when part of Ukraine was annexed in 2014 and when a passenger plane was shot down - it was business as usual and it will be the same again in a couple of years.

Why are you hiding behind the actions of ‘The West’? You seem quite comfortable making suggestions about what should be done with Israel, which ‘The West’ has consistently backed for much longer?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What are you expecting to happen?
The West did nothing when part of Ukraine was annexed in 2014 and when a passenger plane was shot down - it was business as usual and it will be the same again in a couple of years.

What I expect to happen and what I think should happen are clearly not the same.

 

[Grendel]

So Russia makes no compromises?

That woukd be a compromise and one Putin likely will not accept

 

[Mcbean]

Do you think Putin speaks English ? Only takes a old skool translator to fuck something Trump says up or make a decision for their leader

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That woukd be a compromise and one Putin likely will not accept

In what way would that scenario be a compromise?

 

[SBT]

Do you think Putin speaks English ? Only takes a old skool translator to fuck something Trump says up or make a decision for their leader

He does speak English, but very rarely in public.

The scenario you’re describing is why both sides usually bring their own translators, although somewhat incredibly Trump’s top negotiator Steve Witkoff didn’t think to do this when he first met Putin.

 

[SBT]

In what way would that scenario be a compromise?

“No compromises” = a compromise is classic Soviet thinking really

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He does speak English, but very rarely in public.

The scenario you’re describing is why both sides usually bring their own translators, although somewhat incredibly Trump’s top negotiator Steve Witkoff didn’t think to do this when he first met Putin.

No need. Trump speaks better Russian than Putin, believe me.

 

[PVA]

Do you think Putin speaks English ? Only takes a old skool translator to fuck something Trump says up or make a decision for their leader

He does, and as @SBT says Witkoff went to meet Putin without his own translator which is mind bogglingly fucking stupid:

"An embarrassing translation error is fuelling concerns in Europe over Trump’s ability to negotiate an outcome with Putin that protects European sovereignty, as Putin demands formal control of at least four regions of eastern Ukraine.

German newspaper Bild reported that Trump’s special envoy, former New York property developer Steve Witkoff, misunderstood Putin’s goals during a meeting in Moscow last week.

Bild reported that Witkoff thought Russia was proposing its “peaceful withdrawal” from Kherson and Zaporizhzhia when he was instead demanding the withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from those regions."

Now it looks like Trump is going to do the same thing:

Going into Friday’s meeting, she advised Mr Trump to keep his guard up and take a translator with him, lest he fall for the former KGB operative’s linguistic tricks.

“Trump doesn’t speak a lick of Russian,” she said. “The issue there is that Putin is always going to be one step ahead, because Putin’s English is certainly good enough to follow.

“You really need to be paying attention to this guy, how he holds himself when he says things, because he plays all these body language tricks as well.”

When world leaders speak behind closed doors, they conventionally bring their own interpreters.

Steve Witkoff, Mr Trump’s special envoy broke with convention in May when he relied on Russian translators during three high-level meetings with Putin, running the risk that some of the nuance in the Russian leader’s comments was lost in translation.

Ms Hill warned that without a fluent Russian speaker in the room, the president risks being secretly mocked by his counterpart.
“He does make fun of Trump. He uses the Russian language in a way that can be quite sarcastic and ironic. It’s totally lost in translation. I would have someone there telling (Trump) what this guy is saying and how he’s saying it.”

Ms Hill, a British Kremlin watcher and senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, said solo negotiations will “limit” what progress can be made on a ceasefire deal as “Trump isn’t going to have total recall”.

“Who knows what will have been discussed. Only Putin will probably have a good idea,” she said. “His team of people, they’ll be sure to have someone taking notes. That’s what the Russian interpreters do, they take notes at the same time.”

 

[Mcbean]

Christ people are thick we had a Ukrainian with us if we were ever negotiating with the Russkies

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He does, and as @SBT says Witkoff went to meet Putin without his own translator which is mind bogglingly fucking stupid:





Now it looks like Trump is going to do the same thing:

At this point his best bet would be to have someone in the room who the Russians think can't speak the language but is actually fluent

 

[PVA]

At this point his best bet would be to have someone in the room who the Russians think can't speak the language but is actually fluent

Yeah, that's not going to happen.

The fact that a real estate developer has been the main main for discussions with Russia so far says all we need to know.

But here's some more:

https://archive.ph/4VswU

No experts in the room: Donald Trump to meet Vladimir Putin after loss of Russia specialists​

Reduction in federal workforce has hollowed out the number of knowledgeable officials in Washington