Isn't it the plan of that Steven guy?
Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter tisza
- Start date
LarryGrayson
Well-Known Member
seagal
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
No, follow the thread. Trump won two elections, he’s serving a second term… anyone seriously calling him an actual dictator is being ludicrous.
It’s baffling that @Brighton Sky Blue has no qualms calling Trump a dictator and a ‘fascist’ previously but can’t call Maduro a dictator.
You can’t call Maduro a dictator you either know nothing about him or you’re politically partisan and don’t want to denounce a “socialist” (in all but name).
It’s pretty simple, if you believe Trump is a dictator it really shouldn’t be a stretch to call Maduro one.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
He has been declared above the law by the SCOTUS
Control of the HoR and Senate
SCOTUS supermajority in his favour
Cabinet stacked full of loyalists
He has nobody to effectively check his power. He is a dictator in all but name.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So all elections going forward are cancelled? Wow
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
This is getting odd now. Set Trump aside for a moment, why can’t you just call Maduro a dictator? He literally lost an election he tried to rig by banning opposition parties and hasn’t left office for 7 years. He is your worst fears about Trump personified.
To address the points:
Firstly, congress and the senate are elected legitimately and there will be midterms in 2026 where the Dems are likely to seize control as they did in 2018.
Secondly, The SCOTUS justices are appointed by the sitting president and it’s pot luck whether or not any president gets to select one, let alone 2-3. Obama got to pick a supreme justice, that does not make him a ‘dictator in name’.
Finally, the cabinet for every President are appointees so they all tend to be loyal to their patron i.e. the President. This is a straight up desperate point.
On a fundamental level, everything you listed is normal for any president. Trump will leave office in 2028 and there’s no chance he’ll even try to run for a 3rd term, let alone usurp US democracy. If he does run for a 3rd term, it opens up an Obama 3rd term and he’d probably beat Trump.
If Trump tries to gerrymander this in 2028, I’ll agree with that he is a dictator, until then… it’s a pointless conversation.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Everything he listed applies to every US president. It’s pretty normal presidents who win the election to have the house and senate. The midterms address this and presidents tend to have to overcome the loss of one or both houses.
Applying @Brighton Sky Blue’s logic, Starmer and Macron are also dictators. At that point, the definition of ‘dictator’ has been subverted and doesn’t actually have any meaning.
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
It doesn’t really matter if Maduro is a dictator or not, and if he is, then there’s numerous worse dictators who should be topped before him, as several others have already said.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
What is brand new is the Supreme Court ruling that anything the president does is legal if it counts as an ‘official act’. That only came into effect in the final days of Joe Biden’s time in office.
It removes any checks and balances on his authority.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
You tell me which parts of this summary don't apply to Trump and co. and I'm all ears. Keep in mind references have been several times to flouting the limit of two terms by Trump and his crew.
it's weird to see anyone mounting a defence of things this mentalist and his crew get up to. It's a playbook the Reform gang like and that should be scary. Just comes across as Might is Right empire vibes.
tisza
Well-Known Member
You're stretching democracy there. Maduro "won" a disputed election as Chavez's successor. You'd be hard pressed to call Chavez's corrupt 15 odd years in charge as a "liberal democracy".
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Actually, Venezuela is a pawn in a wider game. They supply a lot of oil to China. Oil that China needs to sustain a war for Taiwan. This makes Venezuela of more geopolitical importance than most minor dictatorships. Something I mentioned in previous posts was that US war games predict they’d lose that conflict.
Intervening in major military and nuclear powers is an obvious no go. China, Russia and DPRK all have sophisticated security apparatus and an operation of nature to capture Maduro requires a lot of intelligence to execute.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Trump hand picking Maduro’s successor in true ‘liberal democracy’ fashion. A puppet who will hand over all the country’s oil to a tyrant.
I don’t think anyone disputes there’s a wider geopolitical motive here.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Literally none of it applies to the USA. What are you talking about?
You could argue that Trump’s domination of the Republican constitutes a ‘cult of personality’… but would you apply the logic to the Democrat party? Hillary Clinton and Biden were Obama continuation candidates and the Democrat machine actively conspired against Bernie Sanders. Obama also ‘strongly suggested’ Biden make way for Kamala Harris. Then there’s a the weird obsession Democrats have with wanting Michelle Obama to run for president which is similar to how some republicans want a Trump dynasty. A desire for dynasties in US politics is actually deeply weird, for what it’s worth.
Trump dominates the Republican Party, I’ll absolutely agree with that. If we’re being balanced, you cannot argue that Obama doesn’t dominate the Democrat party today.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
this is as far as I read, comrade.
If you genuinely think none of those things apply to how Trump has operated since re-election then there's nothing to be gained talking about it because from my POV, that position is willful ignorance.
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
This is the problem when people defend Trumps actions to the hilt. He will turn round and make you look a fool.
We had the same thing here with Johnson, Sunak and now Starmer. There's people who will insist they are doing the right thing for the right reasons then they turn round and do the opposite or make a statements like Trump has about the next Venezuelan leader and their oil.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
He should be in prison MMB. Any president who interferes with and tries to prevent the transfer of power should be, but you have already laid your cards on the table in saying that prosecuting him for this is ‘political persecution’.
Call it what it is, it’s an utter disgrace that he’s sat in the White House and has the temerity to lecture anybody on election rigging.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
It's not like this sort of thing hasn't happened before.
I give you Manuel Noriega former President of Panama until taken to the USA and imprisoned for the rest of his life.
I give you Manuel Noriega former President of Panama until taken to the USA and imprisoned for the rest of his life.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
You need to move on. The American people had their say and they elected him despite Jan 6th and everything else you said. Ironically, he may have lost the Republican nomination had the lawfare against not been initiated.
Jan 2029 he’ll leave office and they’ll be the end of it.
I’ll ask for a final time, do you think Maduro is a dictator?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Sure, Maduro was a dictator.
Also, ‘law fare’ FFS. Trump broke the law, he was in the midst of being prosecuted and only escaped conviction in Georgia because of a technicality, nothing to do with the case. I will not move on from calling him what he is, the worst president to ever hold the office.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Dictator Trump overthrows democratically elected and beloved leader Maduro.
Anyone who’s looked in US foreign policy will see that this ‘intervention’ does not compare to the numerous shenanigans in the Cold War. Pinochet and Noriega spring to mind immediately and there’s a definitely a coup or two missed out.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Thank you, that wasn’t hard.
Back to Trump, he wasn’t polling well before the legal proceedings against him commenced. The Republican presidential debates went from attacking Trump’s first term to all candidates pulling ranks and backing him. The image of mugshot galvanised his base and like or not, propelled him to be the Republican nominee and President.
Trump hasn’t faced criminal charges and the opportunity to charge him was lost when he won the Republican nominee for President.
That’s the cause and effect, whether you like it or not.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
American people elected him. Not the Venezuelans though before you start cheerleading his actions.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Ironically, it seems it's the Venezuelans who are doing the cheerleading.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
He hasn’t faced them now because he got re-elected, the charges were all dropped following that. He is on tape telling state officials to ‘find the votes’ and that ‘things will turn out badly for them’ if they didn’t go along with it.
Richard Nixon resigned for much, much less, and this is ignoring Trump’s deep involvement in the Epstein scandal, launching crypto scams on his own supporters, allowing Elon Musk to loot the Treasury, we could go on and on with how much stuff he should be in prison for.
You can’t call it out because you like him, I get it. But it leads you to some mind boggling positions. The red line for any leader of a democracy is not respecting the transfer of power when they lose an election. In the history of the US, he is the only one to cross it.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Yes I’m sure the pictures coming out via the broadcasters reflect the true picture…..
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
At times like these the UK shows it is best in the world at stepping in to make a pointless gesture.
