Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (7 Viewers)

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PVA

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People who complained about Biden's senility are going to be real mad when they see this rambling speech by Trump.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
He hasn’t faced them now because he got re-elected, the charges were all dropped following that. He is on tape telling state officials to ‘find the votes’ and that ‘things will turn out badly for them’ if they didn’t go along with it.

Richard Nixon resigned for much, much less, and this is ignoring Trump’s deep involvement in the Epstein scandal, launching crypto scams on his own supporters, allowing Elon Musk to loot the Treasury, we could go on and on with how much stuff he should be in prison for.

You can’t call it out because you like him, I get it. But it leads you to some mind boggling positions. The red line for any leader of a democracy is not respecting the transfer of power when they lose an election. In the history of the US, he is the only one to cross it.
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So Trump hasn’t been charged or convicted of anything?

In any case, we weren’t debating his character, which I find questionable to be honest. We were debating whether or he’s a dictator. He’s president now, will probably pardon himself at the end of his term and ride off into the sunset.

He’s not a dictator and the desperation to paint him as such is simply untrue. The bullet point list you made earlier is normal for most US presidents before the midterms.

The framing of dictator/dictatorial for US presidents is old as time. FDR, Abe Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and others have all been called it. In fact, FDR winning his 4th term lead to term limits being imposed in law because previously, two term limits was a convention (that FDR broke).
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
So Trump hasn’t been charged or convicted of anything?

In any case, we weren’t debating his character, which I find questionable to be honest. We were debating whether or he’s a dictator. He’s president now, will probably pardon himself at the end of his term and ride off into the sunset.

He’s not a dictator and the desperation to paint him as such is simply untrue. The bullet point list you made earlier is normal for most US presidents before the midterms.

The framing of dictator/dictatorial for US presidents is old as time. FDR, Abe Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and others have all been called it. In fact, FDR winning his 4th term lead to term limits being imposed in law because previously, two term limits was a convention (that FDR broke).
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You smartly ignored the point I made which doesn't apply to nearly all the presidents who came before: the SCOTUS ruling that he is immune from prosecution for anything he does while in office. That in combination with everything else has created a president with a level of unchecked power incomparable to his predecessors.

FDR won the elections fair and square, I'm opposed to term limits in general provided that the elections themselves continue to be free and fair.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
You smartly ignored the point I made which doesn't apply to nearly all the presidents who came before: the SCOTUS ruling that he is immune from prosecution for anything he does while in office. That in combination with everything else has created a president with a level of unchecked power incomparable to his predecessors.

FDR won the elections fair and square, I'm opposed to term limits in general provided that the elections themselves continue to be free and fair.
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That applies to all US presidents henceforth…

Had Nixon been indicted the Supreme Court probably has a similar ruling. His successor, however, pardoned Nixon and Biden probably should’ve done the same.

In any case, the Supreme Court ruled in Trump’s favour so the US system working as intended. Your narrative of ‘Trump is a dictator’ is not grounded in reality.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
But we know that Trump hasn't done this because he's a champion of democracy or to be tough on Maduro.

He's literally come out and said it was for the oil and so they can pick the next leader.
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Why don’t we wait and see how things actually pan rather than jumping on every little thing Trump says?

He talks a lot of shit and you’d think his strongest critics would get this and see what actually develops.
 
Brighton Sky Blue

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
That applies to all US presidents henceforth…

Had Nixon been indicted the Supreme Court probably has a similar ruling. His successor, however, pardoned Nixon and Biden probably should’ve done the same.

In any case, the Supreme Court ruled in Trump’s favour so the US system working as intended. Your narrative of ‘Trump is a dictator’ is not grounded in reality.
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Biden should have pardoned Trump? Is this the Twilight Zone?
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Why don’t we wait and see how things actually pan rather than jumping on every little thing Trump says?

He talks a lot of shit and you’d think his strongest critics would get this and see what actually develops.
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theonion.com

This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won’t

George W. Bush may think that a war against Iraq is the solution to our problems, but the reality is, it will only serve to create far more.
theonion.com theonion.com
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Why don’t we wait and see how things actually pan rather than jumping on every little thing Trump says?

He talks a lot of shit and you’d think his strongest critics would get this and see what actually develops.
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Have you seen this press conference?

All he's talked about is making money from oil and having the US run the country.

No mention of democracy, elections, or freeing the Venezuelan people.

It's absolutely explicit what the aims were and what the plan is.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with democracy.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Have you seen this press conference?

All he's talked about is making money from oil and having the US run the country.

No mention of democracy, elections, or freeing the Venezuelan people.

It's absolutely explicit what the aims were and what the plan is.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with democracy.
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What’s this then?

 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Yes, one mention when he's reading off his pre prepared script.

Once he is talking off script he repeatedly says the quiet parts out loud.
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Do you think any other president would be different?

There’s a geopolitical dimension to this in the sense that the US wants to reassert the Monroe Doctrine and have a regime in Venezuela that’s compliant. Most importantly, is to take Venezuela away from Chinese influence and to stop the supply of Venezuelan oil to China. The unspoken part of this is that this is a chess move against China. Likewise, if there’s an opportunity to push the ayatollah out of Iran, you bet this and any strong US administration would do it.

By and large, states only intervene in any other states affairs when there’s something gain. I’ve not once said it’s purely about democracy. There’s certainly a linkage between kicking Maduro out and forwarding US interests.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Do you think any other president would be different?

There’s a geopolitical dimension to this in the sense that the US wants to reassert the Monroe Doctrine and have a regime in Venezuela that’s compliant. Most importantly, is to take Venezuela away from Chinese influence and to stop the supply of Venezuelan oil to China. The unspoken part of this is that this is a chess move against China. Likewise, if there’s an opportunity to push the ayatollah out of Iran, you bet this and any strong US administration would do it.

By and large, states only intervene in any other states affairs when there’s something gain. I’ve not once said it’s purely about democracy. There’s certainly a linkage between kicking Maduro out and forwarding US interests.
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Mate you’re intelligent enough to not buy the ‘Venezuelan oil is emboldening China to act like a rogue state’ line.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
You give them far too much credit.

There is no chess move. It's an oil grab to enrich Trump and his cronies, that's it.
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Agree to disagree on that point but we’ll find common ground that the intervention is ultimately taken to forward US interests one way or the other. 👍🏻
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
Mate you’re intelligent enough to not buy the ‘Venezuelan oil is emboldening China to act like a rogue state’ line.
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No, but China at some point does want to retake Taiwan, that’s official policy of the CCP.

China is reliant on energy imports so cutting off the supply from Venezuela gives a strategic boost to the USA and away from China.
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Trump hand picking Maduro’s successor in true ‘liberal democracy’ fashion. A puppet who will hand over all the country’s oil to a tyrant.
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it's a multi-faceted self-serving assault.
1. Enrich cronies (much like his original ukraine peace plan).
2. Will declare Venezuela safe - so can deport around 700000 venezuelans illegally living in US. Probably also set it out as a safe 3rd country for other latin/south American illegal immigrants to be deported to.
3. Increase leverage on CHinese fuel imports
4. Sends another message to Iran(and others) that he will take direct action when he fancies it.Venezuela is a "soft" military target for him to flex his muslces on
 
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