Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (23 Viewers)

[tisza]

It’s not just Trump, it’s the entire West. Putin tried and failed to oust Zelensky so this rabbit hole is pretty pointless.

Do you think Maduro won fairly? I’m getting an impression that you think he had.

Let’s try to find common ground here. If Venezuelan democracy flourishes again, would this intervention be righteous? My answer to that is yes.

IS that not a big "if"? Afghanistan,Iraq, Libya (all worse regimes than Venezuela) haven't become flourishing democracies when leaderships were removed.

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

Do you genuinely believe this was about removing a dictator because the US can't abide the way Maduro has treated his citizens? And they just want to free Venezuela's citizens from this oppressive regime and give them fair democracy?

Dude, read my posts. Of course there’s a lot of geopolitics going on here.

@Captain Dart shared a noteworthy Twitter thread.

For those who strangely dodge the question Maduro lost the election. Even equally corrupt countries like Brazil acknowledge it. Why no one answers this seems a bit odd.

I’ll answer it. Maduro is a ‘socialist’ and most staunchest of criticism Trump’s intervention are mostly left wing. It’s convenient to frame the Trump administrations as ‘imperialist’. Ironically, there’s a blindness of China’s actions in South America.

In truth, Maduro’s regime in Venezuela is indefensible.

There is a precedent in international law to remove dictators, in WW2 we were committed to not only restoring lost territories, but to overthrowing a ‘illegitimate’ and evil Nazi regime. Just because we teamed up with the USSR does not make that war wrong.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You confuse the West with Super Powers

Well your view on all this is might makes right so not sure why you’re even contributing

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

IS that not a big "if"? Afghanistan,Iraq, Libya (all worse regimes than Venezuela) haven't become flourishing democracies when leaderships were removed.

None of those countries were democracies. Venezuela was 10 years ago and has a sophisticated opposition ready to take over.

That’s a pretty fundamental difference. After all, there’s US didn’t need to put boots on the ground to achieve their goals.

 

[PVA]

Dude, read my posts. Of course there’s a lot of geopolitics going on here.

You keep going back to Maduro being a bad guy, which nobody disputes.

It's a convenient excuse for this intervention which has absolutely nothing to do with restoring democracy in Venezuela or freeing the Venezuelan people.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Well your view on all this is might makes right so not sure why you’re even contributing

Might has always been right. International Law is a construct designed to impose Western values globally. Did the USSR, China, Latin America, the Middle East or even Africa subscribe to ‘international law’ at the time? Of course not.

It’s an irony that you and others haven’t actually grasped this.

 

[SBT]

I’ll answer it. Maduro is a ‘socialist’ and most staunchest of criticism Trump’s intervention are mostly left wing. It’s convenient to frame the Trump administrations as ‘imperialist’. Ironically, there’s a blindness of China’s actions in South America.

In truth, Maduro’s regime in Venezuela is indefensible.

There is a precedent in international law to remove dictators, in WW2 we were committed to not only restoring lost territories, but to overthrowing a ‘illegitimate’ and evil Nazi regime. Just because we teamed up with the USSR does not make that war wrong.

Do you honestly believe that anyone who criticises this kidnapping does so because they sympathise with Maduro and believe he was the legitimate ruler of Venezuela? How far down the list of 2003-era neocon cliches are you going to get?

Also still waiting on your history of posts condemning the Venezuelan regime - or do you want me to look for you?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Might has always been right.

Finally!

 

[SBT]

Seeing as he apparently can't/won't produce them himself, here's a little walk down memory lane for Mucca Mad Boys and his posting history on Venezuela:

The Venezuelan politics is organised like US politics.

No, you, and Grendel are totally wrong, Venezuela is a more democratic than the UK

May I add, Hugo Chavez was a great leader who profoundly changed Venezuela for the better and I don't feel he got the credit he deserves and I sincerely hope there is a left movement in the UK with a similar, or even more radical ideology and policy than him, a true political hero for the workers

Hugo Chavez was elected in 1998, died in office 2013, he was elected to stay in office, in fact, Maduro, his successor, has just won the election called because of Chavez's death before he was sworn in!

Mr Hugo Chavez ran a dictatorship? What evidence? He was elected, he had a mandate to rule unlike this coalition (if the Liberals voted who to partner with, their followers would've went with Labour), the people also did not vote for a coalition. Here's a quick comparison with Venezuela:
-UK has unelected Head of State, Venezuela does not.
- UK has an unelected second chamber, Venezuela does not.

Long live the Bolivarian Revolution!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Seeing as he apparently can't/won't produce them himself, here's a little walk down memory lane for Mucca Mad Boys and his posting history on Venezuela:

This was in MMB’s Corbynista days I think

 

[PVA]

Wow, he was a massive socialist just a few years ago? That's quite the shift!

 

[SBT]

This was in MMB’s Corbynista days I think

It's not really clear why someone who's posted more pro-Maduro and pro-Chavez stuff than anyone on this website, and hasn't posted about Venezuela at all in more than a decade, is suddenly castigating people for not more loudly condemning the regime before weighing in on this.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Seeing as he apparently can't/won't produce them himself, here's a little walk down memory lane for Mucca Mad Boys and his posting history on Venezuela:

That’s a blast from the past when I was a young and naive socialist. Hugo Chavez, for his faults, did actually have legitimacy. Maduro did for his term because he was a continuation of Chavez.

Ironically, there was a lot of confused mental gymnastics going on to have those views.

 

[Grendel]

You keep going back to Maduro being a bad guy, which nobody disputes.

It's a convenient excuse for this intervention which has absolutely nothing to do with restoring democracy in Venezuela or freeing the Venezuelan people.

I think plenty dispute he and the socialist government in Venezuela is bad. This is the example of socialism Jeremy Corbyn suggested we in the Uk should follow.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

This was in MMB’s Corbynista days I think

I’ve never hidden the fact that I was socialist at school and university. Which is why I understand where a lot of you are coming from.

It's not really clear why someone who's posted more pro-Maduro and pro-Chavez stuff than anyone on this website, and hasn't posted about Venezuela at all in more than a decade, is suddenly castigating people for not more loudly condemning the regime before weighing in on this.

Nice try. There was no pro-Maduro stuff. All the quoted posts pre-date Maduro.

These posts in 2013 were done before I even went to University…

I’ll happily admit I was wrong then and thankfully I move on from student union politics.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Nice one Don! North korea next.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’ve never hidden the fact that I was socialist at school and university. Which is why I understand where a lot of you are coming from.

I’m not and never have been a socialist so with respect you can drop the condescension.

 

[Sick Boy]

I’m not and never have been a socialist so with respect you can drop the condescension.

There's probably only one poster on here who'd I'd say is actually a socialist.

 

[Northants Sky Blue]

Seeing as he apparently can't/won't produce them himself, here's a little walk down memory lane for Mucca Mad Boys and his posting history on Venezuela:

 

[SBT]

Nice try. There was no pro-Maduro stuff. All the quoted posts pre-date Maduro.

All but one of the quotes are from after Maduro took power in April 2013, and one even references his election victory? Are you quite OK?

 

[duffer]

Dude, read my posts. Of course there’s a lot of geopolitics going on here.

@Captain Dart shared a noteworthy Twitter thread.


I’ll answer it. Maduro is a ‘socialist’ and most staunchest of criticism Trump’s intervention are mostly left wing. It’s convenient to frame the Trump administrations as ‘imperialist’. Ironically, there’s a blindness of China’s actions in South America.

In truth, Maduro’s regime in Venezuela is indefensible.

There is a precedent in international law to remove dictators, in WW2 we were committed to not only restoring lost territories, but to overthrowing a ‘illegitimate’ and evil Nazi regime. Just because we teamed up with the USSR does not make that war wrong.

You're comparing a World War against the Nazis to the solitary action of a U.S. President against a country that offers no military threat. They are obviously completely different scenarios and offer literally no legal precedent to support Trump's actions. Has the US declared war on Venezuela or vice versa?

Your sole argument here is basically that might makes right.

Have the courage to admit that, and I'll agree to disagree, but don't try to hide behind some kind of fake justification beyond that, because there isn't one.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I’m not and never have been a socialist so with respect you can drop the condescension.

It’s not condescension, it’s a recognition that even if we disagree, I have a vague understanding of the guiding principles of your (and once my own) viewpoints.

I don’t get why you took that as hostile to be honest.

All but one of the quotes are from after Maduro took power in April 2013, and one even references his election victory? Are you quite OK?

It referenced he won an election. A lot changed from 2013 to 2018 which is when this whole crisis started. Actually, that time period in Venezuela was quite an important in my own political journey.

Besides, the posts were nearly 13 years ago. I’m sure most of you had v different feelings to Trump in 2013 when he was just a celebrity.

 

[SBT]

Besides, the posts were nearly 13 years ago. I’m sure most of you had v different feelings to Trump in 2013 when he was just a celebrity.

So given that you haven't posted about Venezuela since then, why are you running around dismissing people's opinions because they haven't weighed in on the Maduro regime's corruption?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s not condescension, it’s a recognition that even if we disagree, I have a vague understanding of the guiding principles of your (and once my own) viewpoints.

I don’t get why you took that as hostile to be honest.


It referenced he won an election. A lot changed from 2013 to 2018 which is when this whole crisis started. Actually, that time period in Venezuela was quite an important in my own political journey.

Besides, the posts were nearly 13 years ago. I’m sure most of you had v different feelings to Trump in 2013 when he was just a celebrity.

You went on to describe it as ‘student union’ politics and come across as seeing the other side as the naive child’s view. At least that’s how it looks to me whether you mean it or not.

 

[PVA]

Our Nige with a classy take.

'Breaking international law may be a good thing'

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

You went on to describe it as ‘student union’ politics and come across as seeing the other side as the naive child’s view. At least that’s how it looks to me whether you mean it or not.

You’re projecting that onto me. I was referencing myself when talking about student union politics. As previously mentioned, in 2013 I hadn’t even started uni.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

You’re projecting that onto me. I was referencing myself when talking about student union politics. As previously mentioned, in 2013 I hadn’t even started uni.

Wow you are a lot younger than I thought!

 

[LarryGrayson]

Wow you are a lot younger than I thought!

his read books since

 

[duffer]

Might has always been right. International Law is a construct designed to impose Western values globally. Did the USSR, China, Latin America, the Middle East or even Africa subscribe to ‘international law’ at the time? Of course not.

It’s an irony that you and others haven’t actually grasped this.

Well, awkward as this for you to grasp, not everyone agrees with 'might makes right'.

Probably because most people have some sort of moral conscience, or can see themselves or someone they care about being on the wrong end of it. Most people who live through war would rather not do it again, hence the construct of international law and things like the UN

Anyway, I don't know about irony, but I can sure as hell smell hypocrisy in all of your other attempts to justify this.

It's good that we've now clarified your true position - basically, let the biggest bully win.

 

[Saddlebrains]

Shame no ones overthrowing Nasal Keir

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Could Don fly into the UK and kidnap Starmer and Khan next please!

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Wow you are a lot younger than I thought!

There’s one post that @SBT quoted made me laugh because it brought me back to some exams I was studying for. A proper wave of nostalgia!

At my age back then, if you weren’t a socialist you really didn’t have a heart.

 

[PVA]

Could Don fly into the UK and kidnap Starmer and Khan next please!

More pressing issues to deal with closer to home now that New York is officially living under SHARIA LAW after Mamdani's inauguration.

 

[mmttww]

Russia accused the US of committing "an act of armed aggression" that was "deeply concerning and condemnable".

if there's one silver lining here, it might be this gem.

 

[skybluetony176]