The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (17 Viewers)

[Astute]

There’s making unknown assumptions and then there is plain bullshit. I presume you understand the difference.

Oh yes.

I have made assumptions on the unknown. Whereas you......

 

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[martcov]

Yes Farage who nearly everyine thinks is an idiot at best.

Try naming someone who means something. Then you will have a.point to make.

It was you that said remoaners are always going on about blue passports. We laugh about it, but never regarded blue passports as a reason to leave the biggest trading bloc in the world.

 

[martcov]

We don't have any deals as we are presently ruled by the EU. And they won't allow us to make any deals until we have left.

But don't let the truth get in the way of you making a point.

In other words we don’t have any deals. As I said.

 

[Astute]

I'm sure future generations will thank you for believing that their rights should be taken away from them, yet it seems to be fine for your sister to do it.

One more thing.

So what rights do I believe should be taken away from whom?

I have been asked the same questions countless times on here. Usually what good can come from this. And countless times I have given the same answers.

I have not taken any rights away from anyone. But you don't like it when I point out that we don't have the infrastructure to cope with an open border policy. You moan that you pay too much in rent. But you would be delighted if millions more could come to live here and put rents up even more. You blane past governments. Partially correct. But if millions of people didn't have the right to come here if they fancied it then the priblem wouldn't be anywhere near as bad.

My sister went with money. She struggled at first as she bought an ex pub that was just a shell and a little.more. Had a severe lack of funds towards the end of doing it up. But she would never dream of claiming a single Euro. Now it is up and running she has brought life back into the place where her pub is. People travel for miles to go there as all pubs in the area closed. She took a massive gamble. But she invested her own money. She didn't just move to France with nothing and expect to get housed or to get funded in any way.

But I suppose everyone that has come to the UK is the same.....

 

[Astute]

In other words we don’t have any deals. As I said.

Because your beloved EU won't allow us to have any.

Then you go on about fake news......

 

[martcov]

Oh yes.

I have made assumptions on the unknown. Whereas you......

Plain bullshit is like making a huge Nazi style ( modern version of a Nazi poster showing eastern Jews) poster with the words „breaking point“ on it. A lie.

Cambridge Analytics said that votes aren’t won on facts, but by emotions. Their job is to play on fear and hope. They seek to make you frightened and angry about things you didn’t know your were frightened about, and then offer you hope. Bullshit travels via shares 6 times faster than facts which can be boring.

According to CA, that is human nature. CA belongs, at least in part, to the then ( Brexit ) employers of Bannon, Farage‘s budy. Breitbart, Fria Taden, Info Wars coupled with the more mainstream Sun, Mail, Express etc., have spewed bullshit for the last couple of years and now we ( meaning people like Astute ;—)) are acting as programmed by these people. You should watch the undercover interviews and the talk by a senior Vice President of CA, who explain what they have been doing. The people quoting their lies should at least watch these things and reflect.

 

[martcov]

One more thing.

So what rights do I believe should be taken away from whom?

I have been asked the same questions countless times on here. Usually what good can come from this. And countless times I have given the same answers.

I have not taken any rights away from anyone. But you don't like it when I point out that we don't have the infrastructure to cope with an open border policy. You moan that you pay too much in rent. But you would be delighted if millions more could come to live here and put rents up even more. You blane past governments. Partially correct. But if millions of people didn't have the right to come here if they fancied it then the priblem wouldn't be anywhere near as bad.

My sister went with money. She struggled at first as she bought an ex pub that was just a shell and a little.more. Had a severe lack of funds towards the end of doing it up. But she would never dream of claiming a single Euro. Now it is up and running she has brought life back into the place where her pub is. People travel for miles to go there as all pubs in the area closed. She took a massive gamble. But she invested her own money. She didn't just move to France with nothing and expect to get housed or to get funded in any way.

But I suppose everyone that has come to the UK is the same.....

Most people come to the UK to work.

 

[martcov]

Because your beloved EU won't allow us to have any.

Then you go on about fake news......

What is fake? The EU not allowing members to sign deals or people claiming they will make deals straight away, or that people are queuing up to make deals, or that Trump will give us a great deal, or Fox talking about easy deals?

 

[martcov]

One more thing.

So what rights do I believe should be taken away from whom?

I have been asked the same questions countless times on here. Usually what good can come from this. And countless times I have given the same answers.

I have not taken any rights away from anyone. But you don't like it when I point out that we don't have the infrastructure to cope with an open border policy. You moan that you pay too much in rent. But you would be delighted if millions more could come to live here and put rents up even more. You blane past governments. Partially correct. But if millions of people didn't have the right to come here if they fancied it then the priblem wouldn't be anywhere near as bad.

My sister went with money. She struggled at first as she bought an ex pub that was just a shell and a little.more. Had a severe lack of funds towards the end of doing it up. But she would never dream of claiming a single Euro. Now it is up and running she has brought life back into the place where her pub is. People travel for miles to go there as all pubs in the area closed. She took a massive gamble. But she invested her own money. She didn't just move to France with nothing and expect to get housed or to get funded in any way.

But I suppose everyone that has come to the UK is the same.....

Similar story to mine, with a bit more added on in my case. I don’t want they UK taking rights from me or your sister.

 

[Astute]

Plain bullshit is like making a huge Nazi style ( modern version of a Nazi poster showing eastern Jews) poster with the words „breaking point“ on it. A lie.

Cambridge Analytics said that votes aren’t won on facts, but by emotions. Their job is to play on fear and hope. They seek to make you frightened and angry about things you didn’t know your were frightened about, and then offer you hope. Bullshit travels via shares 6 times faster than facts which can be boring.

According to CA, that is human nature. CA belongs, at least in part, to the then ( Brexit ) employers of Bannon, Farage‘s budy. Breitbart, Fria Taden, Info Wars coupled with the more mainstream Sun, Mail, Express etc., have spewed bullshit for the last couple of years and now we ( meaning people like Astute ;—)) are acting as programmed by these people. You should watch the undercover interviews and the talk by a senior Vice President of CA, who explain what they have been doing. The people quoting their lies should at least watch these things and reflect.

And yet again the lies are only from one side.

Just like when you say we don't have any deals when the EU won't allow us to make any.

 

[Astute]

Most people come to the UK to work.

But they still need somewhere to live. And unless we build more that is another homeless family somewhere. But you just won't admit to it.

 

[Astute]

What is fake? The EU not allowing members to sign deals or people claiming they will make deals straight away, or that people are queuing up to make deals, or that Trump will give us a great deal, or Fox talking about easy deals?

You insinuating that we are having problems making any deals. But as usual the problem is your beloved EU.

 

[Astute]

What is fake? The EU not allowing members to sign deals or people claiming they will make deals straight away, or that people are queuing up to make deals, or that Trump will give us a great deal, or Fox talking about easy deals?

You insinuating that we are having problems making any deals. But as usual the problem is your beloved EU.

 

[Astute]

Similar story to mine, with a bit more added on in my case. I don’t want they UK taking rights from me or your sister.

Neither do I. But the majority voted the other way. And there is nothing we can do about it.

 

[chiefdave]

We don't have any deals as we are presently ruled by the EU. And they won't allow us to make any deals until we have left.

More importantly we haven't been able to negotiate an agreement with the EU that will allow us to begin negotiations with other countries.

In parallel to that other, non-EU, countries have said they won't enter talks without the EU giving the OK. An indication they view their relationship with the EU as more important than any future relationship with the UK, a worrying sign for when negotiations do finally start.

 

[Astute]

More importantly we haven't been able to negotiate an agreement with the EU that will allow us to begin negotiations with other countries.

In parallel to that other, non-EU, countries have said they won't enter talks without the EU giving the OK. An indication they view their relationship with the EU as more important than any future relationship with the UK, a worrying sign for when negotiations do finally start.

We are not allowed to make deals when in the EU. All the other EU countries are not allowed to make deals. It is all dictated by the EU. And they won't be able to after we leave either. It isn't allowed.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

As I said when we stick two fingers up to Europe The EU and attempt to claim back 'our' waters in what way will we be better off given that our currently quota is more than double our sea area?

Corrected for you.

 

[martcov]

You insinuating that we are having problems making any deals. But as usual the problem is your beloved EU.

We were in the EU when it was agreed not to allow individual deals outside of the EU. We were great supporters of the CU and single market. At that time we didn’t think anyone would be stupid enough to leave these institutions.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

From the you couldn’t make it up section when our passport colour changes to blue they will no longer be printed in the UK.

We will pay a Dutch company £490m to print them in France.

I don't think anyone actually really cares. It's another sensualist response from some remainers trying to claim everyone that voted leave hates foreigners and everything about Europe.

If I'm right, part of our passports are already made in Europe anyway, and they are shit quality. I couldn't give a shit where mine is made to be honest, as long as it can survive a go in the washing machine... unlike last time.

 

[martcov]

But they still need somewhere to live. And unless we build more that is another homeless family somewhere. But you just won't admit to it.

I have said that we must build affordable housing and care places for the elderly. More money for the NHS and education and chase tax dodging hedge funds or billionaires to fund it. Won’t happen as we are doing what the super rich want and going to become a low tax hideaway off the coast of Europe out of reach of the EU.

 

[martcov]

I don't think anyone actually really cares. It's another sensualist response from some remainers trying to claim everyone that voted leave hates foreigners and everything about Europe.

If I'm right, part of our passports are already made in Europe anyway, and they are shit quality. I couldn't give a shit where mine is made to be honest, as long as it can survive a go in the washing machine... unlike last time.

Remainers certainly don’t care. It is just another amusing story to add to the collection of leave fxxk ups and things not properly thought through. The boat fxxk up was funny too. Brightens up my coffee break. Can’t wait for tomorrow’s laugh.

 

[Astute]

We were in the EU when it was agreed not to allow individual deals outside of the EU. We were great supporters of the CU and single market. At that time we didn’t think anyone would be stupid enough to leave these institutions.

And now you make out that we can't make deals for another reason.

Did we ask to not be able to make deals or was it forced upon us like with many other things?

 

[Astute]

I have said that we must build affordable housing and care places for the elderly. More money for the NHS and education and chase tax dodging hedge funds or billionaires to fund it. Won’t happen as we are doing what the super rich want and going to become a low tax hideaway off the coast of Europe out of reach of the EU.

So who disagrees with this?

But you make out that it isn't a problem that we don't have housing or infrastructure for those already here and it isn't a problem that it gets worse rhe morw that comes here. And you accuse me of many things for mentioning it.

 

[martcov]

And now you make out that we can't make deals for another reason.

Did we ask to not be able to make deals or was it forced upon us like with many other things?

We helped write the rules. We weren’t interested in making outside Deals at the time. That is not the idea of a trading bloc.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Remainers certainly don’t care. It is just another amusing story to add to the collection of leave fxxk ups and things not properly thought through. The boat fxxk up was funny too. Brightens up my coffee break. Can’t wait for tomorrow’s laugh.

Well that's where I'm seeing all the noise come from this morning to be honest. I don't see how it is a fuck up. If the passports are good quality and the deal to make them is currently better than the one we have then that's fine.

I'm constantly hearing 'leave voters hate Europe and its people' and that noise comes from remainers nearly every time. I don't actually know any leave voters who share those feelings, and I know quite a lot of them.

 

[Astute]

We helped write the rules. We weren’t interested in making outside Deals at the time. That is not the idea of a trading bloc.

In what way did we help?

I suppose it was the same way we helped appoint Juncker.

 

[martcov]

So who disagrees with this?

But you make out that it isn't a problem that we don't have housing or infrastructure for those already here and it isn't a problem that it gets worse rhe morw that comes here. And you accuse me of many things for mentioning it.

I repeat, we should do something about it. Leaving the EU could cause a drop in GDP and therefore tax returns. A trade war caused by Trump could really screw us and the world economy up.

 

[martcov]

Well that's where I'm seeing all the noise come from this morning to be honest. I don't see how it is a fuck up. If the passports are good quality and the deal to make them is currently better than the one we have then that's fine.

I'm constantly hearing 'leave voters hate Europe and its people' and that noise comes from remainers nearly every time. I don't actually know any leave voters who share those feelings, and I know quite a lot of them.

Not from me you haven’t. You mix with some strange remainers.

 

[martcov]

In what way did we help?

I suppose it was the same way we helped appoint Juncker.

No. We wanted the single market. We helped appoint Juncker by taking part in the democratic electoral college. We accepted the result.

 

[Astute]

No. We wanted the single market. We helped appoint Juncker by taking part in the democratic electoral college. We accepted the result.

We wanted to be able to trade in Europe more easily. We have trader around the world for centuries. But we didn't want the right to free trade around the world to be taken away from us. And the present EU is nothing like the common market we originally joined. We didn't ask to pay billions in each year.

 

[Ian1779]

Nobody disagrees with your last line.

But what about throwing backperfectly good fish that won't survive? How about using them to feed the homeless?

Or should we put signs in the water telling the fish which ones we need to swim into the nets?

I agree with what you are saying.

To be honest I think the 'Farage' issue is more important ultimately. Here is a guy that is an absolute charlatan. Yes he has always campaigned for independence, but when the referendum vote was announced, he tapped into a feeling of disengagement within the electorate, and pedalled his quite frankly 'racist' nonsense. The result was that those people that genuinely wanted to leave the EU because they saw it as an opportunity to develop as a nation were subsumed by those bought into his intolerant diatribe. Chuck in Boris' bullshit - which cleverly distracted away from the crippling austerity measures his party had introduced as well as a general neglect of the northern part of the country which has been going on through parliaments from both sides.

Now here we are, a country divided and this clown thinks he's the solution. I can't understand how anyone would give him attention or airtime.

 

[martcov]

We wanted to be able to trade in Europe more easily. We have trader around the world for centuries. But we didn't want the right to free trade around the world to be taken away from us. And the present EU is nothing like the common market we originally joined. We didn't ask to pay billions in each year.

Of course we wanted to continue trading with the rest of the world. We still trade with the rest of the world. We wanted to have more bargaining power by being in a trading bloc and wanted the City to be the financial centre of Europe and the world. A far cry from the petty minded „proud sovereign nation“ that we now want to aspire to. A bit like bringing gas lights back and steam engines. We pay a few billion for the benefits of membership- not just because we want to pay money out.

 

[Kingokings204]

I agree with what you are saying.

To be honest I think the 'Farage' issue is more important ultimately. Here is a guy that is an absolute charlatan. Yes he has always campaigned for independence, but when the referendum vote was announced, he tapped into a feeling of disengagement within the electorate, and pedalled his quite frankly 'racist' nonsense. The result was that those people that genuinely wanted to leave the EU because they saw it as an opportunity to develop as a nation were subsumed by those bought into his intolerant diatribe. Chuck in Boris' bullshit - which cleverly distracted away from the crippling austerity measures his party had introduced as well as a general neglect of the northern part of the country which has been going on through parliaments from both sides.

Now here we are, a country divided and this clown thinks he's the solution. I can't understand how anyone would give him attention or airtime.

How you feel about farage is how I feel about people on the remain side such as Blair, bob geldof and nick clegg. How anyone can vote on their side of the argument is beyond me also. They aren’t worth the air in this world.

It’s always two sides of the argument.

 

[Kingokings204]

Well that's where I'm seeing all the noise come from this morning to be honest. I don't see how it is a fuck up. If the passports are good quality and the deal to make them is currently better than the one we have then that's fine.

I'm constantly hearing 'leave voters hate Europe and its people' and that noise comes from remainers nearly every time. I don't actually know any leave voters who share those feelings, and I know quite a lot of them.

Yes and you know for certain if they gave it a British company and they messed it up all the remainers would be out on force saying what a joke we are.

We can’t win either way. I agree with you.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Not from me you haven’t. You mix with some strange remainers.

A lot of that comes from The Independent actually, which is your favourite newspaper.