The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (65 Viewers)

[martcov]

Is that right?

Of course it isn't. It is a Tony fact. Do you even know what the EIB is?

A hard Brexit would risk deepening the UK housing crisis

 

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[Astute]

A hard Brexit would risk deepening the UK housing crisis

Are you trying to back up Tonys 'true' statement?

 

[Astute]

Of course they are after money after 2019. The existing commitments run to the end of the present budget, there are joint projects running longer and there are liabilities ( e.g. the loan to the Ukraine) that are still running. We also get money back after 2019.

In the article there is still scope on things like property and possibly hoot ventures which will become relevant after 2019 depending on what the future relationship is.

So you agree with Dave that our liabilities end but admit our liabilities continue for future borrowing after we leave?

 

[martcov]

So you agree with Dave that our liabilities end but admit our liabilities continue for future borrowing after we leave?

I don’t know whether we are staying in the EIB or whether we will get credit from them. The article mentions that we may not get finance for house building from the EIB in the future.

 

[skybluetony176]

Is that right?

Of course it isn't. It is a Tony fact. Do you even know what the EIB is?

Yes and yes.

 

[Astute]

I don’t know whether we are staying in the EIB or whether we will get credit from them. The article mentions that we may not get finance for house building from the EIB in the future.

They say that we have to leave as to be a member you have to be in the EU. But they have projects planned until 2025. We have a share of the liabilities of 16.1%. It ran a surplus of 2.6 billions last year. But this goes into the reserves. And they want us to keep up with the liabilities so they can keep their AAA to Aaa credit rating. But nobody has a say or agrees future projects. You are just expected to pay.

The other countries that share the same liabilities are Germany, France and Italy. Current liabilities stand at 469 billion Euros. So ours stand at 75.5 billion Euros. And this will keep going up.

 

[skybluetony176]

I don’t know whether we are staying in the EIB or whether we will get credit from them. The article mentions that we may not get finance for house building from the EIB in the future.

The EIB shareholders are the member states of the EU. As we’ll no longer be in the EU that would seem to scupper anything past what we’re already contractually obligated to. It is possible that projects in the U.K. will be able to borrow further money after brexit but as I understand it the project has to be in the EU’s interest. Most likely scenario is an EU based investor or contractor being involved in a U.K. project and using loans from the EIB to fund them. Another expansion of Hinckley point for example by French energy firms. Someone like Orbit housing going to them to borrow money to build much needed housing, less likely to happen.

 

[Astute]

We also won’t have any further borrowing from the EIB. The EIB being a major investor in UK infrastructure and house building. I’m sure I read somewhere that it’s something like £16B a year that’s going to have to be found from alternative sources.

Yes and yes.

Brexit: future funding from the European Investment Bank?

So show us all the 16 billion a year or admit you are wrong for once.

 

[skybluetony176]

Brexit: future funding from the European Investment Bank?

So show us all the 16 billion a year or admit you are wrong for once.

The article also says states “balanced and steady development of the internal market in the interest of the Union”

Click the link for more background.

What’s this to do with £16B a year.

 

[Astute]

The article also says states “balanced and steady development of the internal market in the interest of the Union”

Click the link for more background.

What’s this to do with £16B a year.

Have you strangely forgotten the 16 billion a year that you said you heard came to the UK?

Not a surprise is it?

 

[skybluetony176]

Have you strangely forgotten the 16 billion a year that you said you heard came to the UK?

Not a surprise is it?

Are you saying it isn’t £16B? If it ain’t it ain’t. I was going from memory as I made clear in my post so never stated it as fact. If it’s wrong it’s wrong, I’ll give you that. I can live with it.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Is this Oskarshamn in Sweden where migrant children have to have a police escort to school so they don’t get attacked by locals? Did your “friend” tell you about that at the same time?

The story ( ridiculous shit ) is spun by Breitbart. The police are forming jogging groups and the public can run with them if they feel unsafe in the park in the dark.

Karlsson ( from the police ) said that he had heard of many residents feeling insecure in the city: “It does not happen so much here, but people are influenced by events around the world and feel unsafe when it’s dark.„

The „it doesn’t happen so much here“ - meaning bad things that people hear about in the world - was actually a very relevant part of the story, but neither you nor Breitbart are interested in what the police actually said.

It gets dark early at this time of year in Sweden, so it sounds like a good idea, I think women jogging in a park in Cov would also feel safer jogging with a group of police. Regardless of whether migrants live in the area or not.

How it it ridiculous? It is as a direct result of the migrants. Sweden is just as dark as last year!

The desperation from some one here to pretend that there is not a problem is staggering. At times like this it looks like you are just trying to argue that water isn't wet to be honest.

As for the police spokesmen in Sweden, they are mostly as deluded as you both. They do all sorts of things apart from trying to tackle the problem. Female only festivals, running groups. FFS, no wonder the right is rising with your amount of denial. People are sick of trying to have a debate with others who might as well have permanently been smoking spice!

 

[chiefdave]

So is there a written piece of EU legislation to that effect. If so please show me.

I'm assuming there isn't otherwise you wouldn't have asked the question.

So I suppose that leaves the EU with the option to just push the UK out of the EIB, as being a member of the EU is a condition of membership, without repaying our £10bn share or our share of future loan repayments.

The other issue of course is some EIB projects in the UK are long term with up to 20 years to run. Suppose there is also nothing to stop them pulling the funding for those and leaving the UK taxpayer to foot the bill for completion or rollback.

 

[chiefdave]

So they are not after any money for after 2019?

The current EU funding cycle goes past 2019 and we have already agreed to that so will of course be liable to meet our agreed commitments.

As I've said before it would have made more sense to have the exit in sync with the end of a funding cycle.

 

[chiefdave]

I'm looking forward to catching up with this thread tomorrow. In the meantime, I heard a story from a friend back in Sweden who said that anyone that wants to go running in Oskarshamn can get armed police to come with them to protect them from migrant.

Was in Sweden a couple of weeks back and didn't see or hear of any problems.

Is there any data on the number of attacks by migrants that show the increase? Google only seems to bring up the usual suspects (breitbart, infowars, mail, express)

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Women being forced into prostitution to feed their children isn’t a cultural issue, it’s a lack of compassion to help them not get into that vulnerable position through no fault of their own issue. Unless you’re suggesting that a lack of compassion is our cultural issue? I watched some news footage on refugee children being forced into prostitution once they arrive in the apparent safe haven of Europe. The biggest client base by far was white men from so called civilised nations such as the U.K., France, Germany and other Western European countries. Again unless you’re suggesting that the cultural issue is that Western Europe is tolerant of pedophiles it isn’t a cultural issue.

Unfortunately, there are many migrants & refugees that have made it to the UK only to be forced into slavery, prostitution etc.

If any of you get a chance....watch "Exodus. our journey continues" on Iplayer.........many of them now wish they never bothered! Heartbreaking stuff.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Was in Sweden a couple of weeks back and didn't see or hear of any problems.

Is there any data on the number of attacks by migrants that show the increase? Google only seems to bring up the usual suspects (breitbart, infowars, mail, express)

No, you won't find anything. Sweden has stopped taking the ethnicity and background of any offender involved in any crime.

All you will find are general crime figures, which have had an overall increase. Things such as sexual assaults and muggings mainly.

Don't get me wrong, I live in Sweden and loved it. Having been back there since I can say first hand that one or two of the areas I used to live in are what Breitbart would like to call a 'no go zone' now. It isn't just a right wing conspiracy theory I'm afraid, as much as I wish it was.

 

[skybluetony176]

How it it ridiculous? It is as a direct result of the migrants. Sweden is just as dark as last year!

The desperation from some one here to pretend that there is not a problem is staggering. At times like this it looks like you are just trying to argue that water isn't wet to be honest.

As for the police spokesmen in Sweden, they are mostly as deluded as you both. They do all sorts of things apart from trying to tackle the problem. Female only festivals, running groups. FFS, no wonder the right is rising with your amount of denial. People are sick of trying to have a debate with others who might as well have permanently been smoking spice!

I’m glad that you’ve acknowledged that migrant children having to be taken to school under police escort to stop locals attacking them is as a direct result of migration. If you hadn’t have joined the dots I’d never have worked it out.

Now. Meanwhile back in the real world do you think it’s OK for locals to attack migrant children on the way to school? Only you seem keen to justify the rise of the right? Maybe if you’re wife who you claim to be foreign had to have a police escort every time she went to the shops you may be quicker to talk out about this sort of behaviour.

You claim one thing is happening so I google the town and migrants and the first article that comes up is about school children needing a police escort. It was also in the Mail of all papers. Funny that a paper that would normally fall over itself to put your slant on the story hasn’t? Maybe things aren’t what you say?

 

[skybluetony176]

I'm assuming there isn't otherwise you wouldn't have asked the question.

So I suppose that leaves the EU with the option to just push the UK out of the EIB, as being a member of the EU is a condition of membership, without repaying our £10bn share or our share of future loan repayments.

The other issue of course is some EIB projects in the UK are long term with up to 20 years to run. Suppose there is also nothing to stop them pulling the funding for those and leaving the UK taxpayer to foot the bill for completion or rollback.

I think all outstanding contracts will be allowed to run. Where we could and probably will lose out is on future funding and we will lose a mechanism that allows us to lend money and earn interest in the EU. Pretty sure I read somewhere (astute might want a blue peter badge later though if my memory is incorrect) we are currently a 26% stakeholder in the EIB. Don’t know what that equates to in interest earned on payments back to us but going by the multi billion loans the EIB makes around the EU it isn’t going to be chicken feed.

 

[skybluetony176]

No, you won't find anything. Sweden has stopped taking the ethnicity and background of any offender involved in any crime.

All you will find are general crime figures, which have had an overall increase. Things such as sexual assaults and muggings mainly.

Don't get me wrong, I live in Sweden and loved it. Having been back there since I can say first hand that one or two of the areas I used to live in are what Breitbart would like to call a 'no go zone' now. It isn't just a right wing conspiracy theory I'm afraid, as much as I wish it was.

Presumably those rise in crime figures include attack’s on children? Or are you dismissing them?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I’m glad that you’ve acknowledged that migrant children having to be taken to school under police escort to stop locals attacking them is as a direct result of migration. If you hadn’t have joined the dots I’d never have worked it out.

Now. Meanwhile back in the real world do you think it’s OK for locals to attack migrant children on the way to school? Only you seem keen to justify the rise of the right? Maybe if you’re wife who you claim to be foreign had to have a police escort every time she went to the shops you may be quicker to talk out about this sort of behaviour.

You claim one thing is happening so I google the town and migrants and the first article that comes up is about school children needing a police escort. It was also in the Mail of all papers. Funny that a paper that would normally fall over itself to put your slant on the story hasn’t? Maybe things aren’t what you say?

No, you googled that town and took one sentence out of an article which suited your agenda, ignoring absolutely everything else. It's completely transparent and actually had you not told me where you got the article from, would have looked like quite a shocking story on its own.

The reality is that migrants were housed in the town and have absolutely ruined it, as they have in other areas of Sweden. How do I know? I've lived there, been back there, keep in touch with people, and you know, seen it first hand. Most people in Sweden do not like talking about it. They are a very shy bunch of people who are at risk of getting in trouble, even losing their jobs, if they say something negative about migrants.

Residents have had stuff stolen, their garages looted, some have been attacked. They've then taken the law into their own hands. Controversial of course, but I actually find myself asking the question of what I would do in their situation when the police and government are ignoring them for the sake of political correctness and ignorance.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Presumably those rise in crime figures include attack’s on children? Or are you dismissing them?

Where have any migrant children been attacked? It just said that they had an escort because of rising tensions in the town. Started by the arrival of the migrants.

Of course there are some crimes against migrants rather than the other way around. The problem is the reality of that is about 10 - 90, however in your deluded and ignorant world, you think it is completely the other way around!

 

[Astute]

Are you saying it isn’t £16B? If it ain’t it ain’t. I was going from memory as I made clear in my post so never stated it as fact. If it’s wrong it’s wrong, I’ll give you that. I can live with it.

So you never looked at the link I put up that showed you to b a long way out?

 

[Astute]

The current EU funding cycle goes past 2019 and we have already agreed to that so will of course be liable to meet our agreed commitments.

As I've said before it would have made more sense to have the exit in sync with the end of a funding cycle.

Which is 2020. But as we know they make it up as they go along.

Just like the financial funding until 2025. We didn't agree to it. They just tell us how much it will cost us.

 

[Astute]

I think all outstanding contracts will be allowed to run. Where we could and probably will lose out is on future funding and we will lose a mechanism that allows us to lend money and earn interest in the EU. Pretty sure I read somewhere (astute might want a blue peter badge later though if my memory is incorrect) we are currently a 26% stakeholder in the EIB. Don’t know what that equates to in interest earned on payments back to us but going by the multi billion loans the EIB makes around the EU it isn’t going to be chicken feed.

16.1% stakeholder.

And as I said there was a surplus of 2.6 billion last year. We didn't see a penny of it. It went into the reserves. That stands at about 65 billion IIRC. We pay out but never collect.

 

[skybluetony176]

Where have any migrant children been attacked? It just said that they had an escort because of rising tensions in the town. Started by the arrival of the migrants.

Of course there are some crimes against migrants rather than the other way around. The problem is the reality of that is about 10 - 90, however in your deluded and ignorant world, you think it is completely the other way around!

Are you talking reported crimes or speculated crimes? Because I’m old enough to remember the perception that all black people are criminals in the white community, although I never believed it myself. That of course isn’t the case and never was. Still hasn’t stopped the fact that if you’re black even today you’re many more times likely to be stopped and searched than if you’re white so clearly some perceptions are hard to shake.

So in my deluded ignorant world I chose not to believe that all black people are criminals. Silly me.

I will point out again that if what you say is true a paper like the Mail would be all over it and they ain’t. In fact the only comment I can see from them is regarding school children having to have a police escort to school. Something that you reluctantly acknowledge but skip over.

 

[Astute]

I will point out again that if what you say is true a paper like the Mail would be all over it and they ain’t. In fact the only comment I can see from them is regarding school children having to have a police escort to school. Something that you reluctantly acknowledge but skip over.

Are you saying that it isn't true because the Mail said it? Because that is what you normally say.

 

[skybluetony176]

16.1% stakeholder.

And as I said there was a surplus of 2.6 billion last year. We didn't see a penny of it. It went into the reserves. That stands at about 65 billion IIRC. We pay out but never collect.

You’re blue Peter badge is in the post. As a stakeholder if there is a surplus and we haven’t received any of it there must be a reason for that and we’ve agreed to it. Our finance minister does currently sit on the board of governors after all.

 

[skybluetony176]

Are you saying that it isn't true because the Mail said it? Because that is what you normally say.

No. I’m saying if it was as is being portrayed the Mail would be all over it and they aren’t or don’t seem to be. They have covered migrant school children being attacked in the area though so it’s not like they’re unaware of issues in the area between migrants and locals. So maybe in the Mails deluded and ignorant world they’re responsible for the rise of the right to along with me and other “left” wingers.

 

[chiefdave]

We pay out but never collect.

We don't collect as it stays in the EIB. When we leave we will get a payment of over £10bn to cover our share.

 

[Astute]

You’re blue Peter badge is in the post. As a stakeholder if there is a surplus and we haven’t received any of it there must be a reason for that and we’ve agreed to it. Our finance minister does currently sit on the board of governors after all.

So we now get a say in what happens in the EU?

Next you will be saying that we wanted Juncker.

 

[Astute]

No. I’m saying if it was as is being portrayed the Mail would be all over it and they aren’t or don’t seem to be. They have covered migrant school children being attacked in the area though so it’s not like they’re unaware of issues in the area between migrants and locals. So maybe in the Mails deluded and ignorant world they’re responsible for the rise of the right to along with me and other “left” wingers.

Just as I thought. If you don't like what they say then it is bullshit. If you can get it to sound good for your point it is 100% the truth.

 

[Astute]

We don't collect as it stays in the EIB. When we leave we will get a payment of over £10bn to cover our share.

No we won't. We have liabilities of much more than that. We will only start to get money back when the countries that are financially in the shit pay back their loans.

Thought you knew this as you back Barnier on us paying every penny that we owe.......

 

[martcov]

Where have any migrant children been attacked? It just said that they had an escort because of rising tensions in the town. Started by the arrival of the migrants.

Of course there are some crimes against migrants rather than the other way around. The problem is the reality of that is about 10 - 90, however in your deluded and ignorant world, you think it is completely the other way around!

But the police say nothing much is happening there and it is because of things happening elsewhere in the world. I wouldn’t go jogging alone in parts of Cov.. there is a scum element amongst the refugees, but there is amongst us as well. I could mention my refuge anecdotes, but I can also see what caused their flight. I hope that those can go back do so, but when the time is right. Those that cannot have to be integrated. If the decide to break our laws, then they should be punished and sent home if their country is safe enough.

 

[martcov]

No we won't. We have liabilities of much more than that. We will only start to get money back when the countries that are financially in the shit pay back their loans.

Thought you knew this as you back Barnier on us paying every penny that we owe.......

They are paying back and our liabilities are decreasing. Problem being our exchange rate if we are paying in Euros or have to meet liabilities in Euros. But you know that.