The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2008
15,802
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Verona, Italy
Its amazing how 3 people have totally brought into this despite Mart and my posts being completely different in tone.


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I used to get accussed of being Grendel by some posters on here, it was pretty offensive considering his taste in music.
 
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Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2012
18,879
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Coventry
Which is why I say about the tax being talked about on inheritance. They sa about 40% of older people help the younger ones buy. Life isn't easy. Or should I be one of those who is doing OK so not care?
I am also doing OK, much more so than I was when I started in the profession. Doesn’t mean that I have forgotten how it was
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2011
30,776
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Cumbria
By your own made up figures (again this isn’t actually Labour policy), each person still gets more than enough for a good deposit on a decent house. That 500k house is only paid off because they bought it for £100k then spent decades voting in politicians who implemented policies designed to raise house prices. That breaks the inter generational contract. That’s why the under 40s are pissed off. Your generation has good jobs, decent pensions, affordable houses, and free education. Then when you became the voting majority decided all that stuff is socialist nonsense and got rid of it.
So did McDonnell say he is looking at doing it?

How about keeping to the truth?

We vote in Labour. House prices go up. We vote in the Tories. House prices go up. That is inflation for you. And to burst your bubble....We were told that house prices would crash if we voted leave. We voted leave. House prices continued to go up. Yet it is still our fault.

My generation has good jobs and good pensions? Brown killed off final salary pensions pensions in 2001. I have a good pension because I don't waste my money renting a new car every 3 years. I don't have to have the latest technology every time something new comes out. I don't spend thousands on holidays each year. Instead my money goes into my pension.

Brown and Bliar shafted you. And the funny thing is I see it happening again if Labour get in. But I am whatever you call me for being worried. I fell for it last time. Not falling for it again.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2011
30,776
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Cumbria
I am also doing OK, much more so than I was when I started in the profession. Doesn’t mean that I have forgotten how it was
Are you saying that I have forgotten?

I had it really hard. That is why I don't waste my money now. Then we get Shhhmmee saying how easy we had it. Unbelievable. My eldest kid is 34 youngest is 9. I don't need telling anything. I have seen the changes. You would think with tour comment here that it is never who wants tax to be raised off the poorer of our population and not yourself.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2011
30,776
7,515
263
Cumbria
I apologised the other week for confusing a comment somebody had made thinking it was you?


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That was something else :smuggrin:
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
54,280
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By your own made up figures (again this isn’t actually Labour policy), each person still gets more than enough for a good deposit on a decent house. That 500k house is only paid off because they bought it for £100k then spent decades voting in politicians who implemented policies designed to raise house prices. That breaks the inter generational contract. That’s why the under 40s are pissed off. Your generation has good jobs, decent pensions, affordable houses, and free education. Then when you became the voting majority decided all that stuff is socialist nonsense and got rid of it.
Oh dear it’s the politics of envy
 
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2011
26,131
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Coventry, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
Are you saying that I have forgotten?

I had it really hard. That is why I don't waste my money now. Then we get Shhhmmee saying how easy we had it. Unbelievable. My eldest kid is 34 youngest is 9. I don't need telling anything. I have seen the changes. You would think with tour comment here that it is never who wants tax to be raised off the poorer of our population and not yourself.
Stop taking everything personally. One of two things can be true here:

1) The millions of young people saying there’s an issue and supported by economic indicators are wrong and a bunch of whiny snowflakes

2) There genuinely is a problem

You seem to be on the side of 1
 
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2011
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Coventry, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
So did McDonnell say he is looking at doing it?

How about keeping to the truth?

We vote in Labour. House prices go up. We vote in the Tories. House prices go up. That is inflation for you. And to burst your bubble....We were told that house prices would crash if we voted leave. We voted leave. House prices continued to go up. Yet it is still our fault.

My generation has good jobs and good pensions? Brown killed off final salary pensions pensions in 2001. I have a good pension because I don't waste my money renting a new car every 3 years. I don't have to have the latest technology every time something new comes out. I don't spend thousands on holidays each year. Instead my money goes into my pension.

Brown and Bliar shafted you. And the funny thing is I see it happening again if Labour get in. But I am whatever you call me for being worried. I fell for it last time. Not falling for it again.
Fucking hell. We are talking about breaking from the neoliberal policies that all parties have had since the 70s. This isn’t about personalities.

Are you seriously telling me education wasn’t free in your generation? Or that the house price to income ratio wasn’t far lower? Or that on average pensions were better?

Because you’d be wrong on all three cases. This isn’t even up for dispute.

Stop waffling about Blair and Brown when you are arguing against Corbyn, who the entire point of is a complete break from those two. Labour members agree with you, they didn’t fix what was wrong. That’s why they voted Corbyn in and now all you can say is “what about Blair and Brown”.

Blair and Brown did a lot of good. Their brand of neoliberal economics is better than the Tories version, but both fail to solve underlying issues with the economy.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
54,280
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Fucking hell. We are talking about breaking from the neoliberal policies that all parties have had since the 70s. This isn’t about personalities.

Are you seriously telling me education wasn’t free in your generation? Or that the house price to income ratio wasn’t far lower? Or that on average pensions were better?

Because you’d be wrong on all three cases. This isn’t even up for dispute.
what about interest rates and actual mortgage payments as a percentage of earnings?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2011
30,776
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Cumbria
When you said we shouldn’t tax inheritance because people need it to buy houses. Seriously if this many people misunderstand you maybe put some effort into explaining your thoughts better.

Why do you think IHT is a bad tax?
I said help to buy a house and also to secure futures. I also said this would help to keep many off relying on the state in older life and not be a burden.

Where as with you..... hard to buy a house these days without a deposit. But why should they get a deposit.....And ignore the rest. And it is me that supposedly doesn't listen.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
19,431
20,825
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Well do you think such a person should be a potential cabinet member or even an MP?

I mean people think Johnson is unfit for office for a couple of unfortunate phrases
People think Johnson is unfit for office for a well raft of reasons as you well know. His off the scale dishonesty, his disastrous tenure at the foreign office, his naked ambition over what is right for the country, numerous scandals, wasting public money on projects that never get off the ground, that's just off the top of my head.

As for is Abbott fit as a cabinet member, I don't think she is personally, but I'd say the same about the vast majority of the current cabinet.
 
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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2013
25,584
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what about interest rates and actual mortgage payments as a percentage of earnings?
What about wages as a percentage of house values? What about deposits as a percentage of earnings? You had it a lot better than current first time buyers.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2011
30,776
7,515
263
Cumbria
Stop taking everything personally. One of two things can be true here:

1) The millions of young people saying there’s an issue and supported by economic indicators are wrong and a bunch of whiny snowflakes

2) There genuinely is a problem

You seem to be on the side of 1
That is your take on things.

I don't want another long lasting tax burden put onto the working class. As I keep saying it won't affect the rich. It is a Labour idea so it seems OK with you. But that isn't what the Labour party is supposed to be about. That is why I make comparisons to the last Labour government. But it doesn't matter. You know your pension got shafted by them but but but.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
54,280
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That is your take on things.

I don't want another long lasting tax burden put onto the working class. As I keep saying it won't affect the rich. It is a Labour idea so it seems OK with you. But that isn't what the Labour party is supposed to be about. That is why I make comparisons to the last Labour government. But it doesn't matter. You know your pension got shafted by them but but but.
It’s a classic vote loser for any party. It’s a hated tax and any party reducing the ceiling would be trounced

it’s a lazy spiteful measure which would add peanuts to the treasury anyway
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2011
30,776
7,515
263
Cumbria
Fucking hell. We are talking about breaking from the neoliberal policies that all parties have had since the 70s. This isn’t about personalities.

Are you seriously telling me education wasn’t free in your generation? Or that the house price to income ratio wasn’t far lower? Or that on average pensions were better?

Because you’d be wrong on all three cases. This isn’t even up for dispute.

Stop waffling about Blair and Brown when you are arguing against Corbyn, who the entire point of is a complete break from those two. Labour members agree with you, they didn’t fix what was wrong. That’s why they voted Corbyn in and now all you can say is “what about Blair and Brown”.

Blair and Brown did a lot of good. Their brand of neoliberal economics is better than the Tories version, but both fail to solve underlying issues with the economy.
Where do I start here? Full of information you know is twisted.

House prices? Just as affordable as now. Have shown you the evidence enough times. We had high interest rates. You have record low interest rates.

Brown and Bliar did a lot of good? Let's forget about the bad eh? Taken to war on a lie. Still feeling the after effects and will do for many years. Pensions decimated. Yet you try to ignore how they were decimated and just state that my generation had it better. This is also false. That happened nearly 20 years ago. So in other words most of my working life. They were Tories n disguise. That has also been provenon here. Bliar speeded up privatisation of the NHS. Yet you choose to also ignore this.

I could go on. But to you they did a good job. They are Labour.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2011
30,776
7,515
263
Cumbria
People think Johnson is unfit for office for a well raft of reasons as you well know. His off the scale dishonesty, his disastrous tenure at the foreign office, his naked ambition over what is right for the country, numerous scandals, wasting public money on projects that never get off the ground, that's just off the top of my head.

As for is Abbott fit as a cabinet member, I don't think she is personally, but I'd say the same about the vast majority of the current cabinet.
Anyone who disagrees with this is as blind to the Tories as Shmmeee is to Labour.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2011
30,776
7,515
263
Cumbria
It’s a classic vote loser for any party. It’s a hated tax and any party reducing the ceiling would be trounced

it’s a lazy spiteful measure which would add peanuts to the treasury anyway
It would raise a lot of money off the poorer of our population. But it would do long term damage to Labour like Bliar and Brown did last time. It is a tax grab that the Tories wouldn't dare do. But once done they wouldn't reverse it. Why would they? It wouldn't be their fault.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
54,280
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It would raise a lot of money off the poorer of our population. But it would do long term damage to Labour like Bliar and Brown did last time. It is a tax grab that the Tories wouldn't dare do. But once done they wouldn't reverse it. Why would they? It wouldn't be their fault.
It would raise very little - currently it raises about £5 billion and that’s of top end earners - it wouldn’t even double the current intake
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2011
30,776
7,515
263
Cumbria
It would raise very little - currently it raises about £5 billion and that’s of top end earners - it wouldn’t even double the current intake
95% of the population have less than the present £475,000. But nearly everyone who owns their own home will be over the £125,000 proposed. And that is without savings and the rest. Home ownership is at about 65% presently. But the older you get the more own their own home. So the tax would change from just 5% which is the richest to the majority.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
54,280
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763
95% of the population have less than the present £475,000. But nearly everyone who owns their own home will be over the £125,000 proposed. And that is without savings and the rest. Home ownership is at about 65% presently. But the older you get the more own their own home. So the tax would change from just 5% which is the richest to the majority.
it’s £325,000 isn’t it?
 

djr8369

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2018
2,371
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95% of the population have less than the present £475,000. But nearly everyone who owns their own home will be over the £125,000 proposed. And that is without savings and the rest. Home ownership is at about 65% presently. But the older you get the more own their own home. So the tax would change from just 5% which is the richest to the majority.
What if it was lowered to a value somewhere in the middle of the two?


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Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
54,280
13,945
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No £475,000.
That’s including the property allowance - I’ve just looked at the Labour Party proposal - or the report it’s based on and it is projected to raise a grand total of £6 billion extra revenue so it is just double what is currently earned and based off a projected rise of the base

The proposal also isn’t lowering the threshold but actually having a lifetime gift allowance and applying an income tax on any element above that - so it then depends on your beneficiaries tax band

It’s the most stupid idea I have ever seen
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2011
26,131
16,577
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Coventry, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
I said help to buy a house and also to secure futures. I also said this would help to keep many off relying on the state in older life and not be a burden.

Where as with you..... hard to buy a house these days without a deposit. But why should they get a deposit.....And ignore the rest. And it is me that supposedly doesn't listen.
What? You’re the one saying the deposit should come from having parents rich enough to have built up capital. I want it to be down to hard work and ability to earn a decent wage.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
54,280
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What? You’re the one saying the deposit should come from having parents rich enough to have built up capital. I want it to be down to hard work and ability to earn a decent wage.
40% of 25 to 34 year olds own their own house now and outside London the figure is higher
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2011
26,131
16,577
263
Coventry, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
Where do I start here? Full of information you know is twisted.

House prices? Just as affordable as now. Have shown you the evidence enough times. We had high interest rates. You have record low interest rates.

Brown and Bliar did a lot of good? Let's forget about the bad eh? Taken to war on a lie. Still feeling the after effects and will do for many years. Pensions decimated. Yet you try to ignore how they were decimated and just state that my generation had it better. This is also false. That happened nearly 20 years ago. So in other words most of my working life. They were Tories n disguise. That has also been provenon here. Bliar speeded up privatisation of the NHS. Yet you choose to also ignore this.

I could go on. But to you they did a good job. They are Labour.
Interest rates were high for a short period. Wages to price ratio was low for far far longer. As people keep telling you, the issue is the deposit required to buy a house with prices as they are. Combined with low wages it means people can’t get on the ladder.

You keep stating blatant falsehoods despite being pulled up on it. I’ve repeatedly said I didn’t like Blair’s privatisation agenda, you liked the fricken post so you clearly read it!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
54,280
13,945
763
Interest rates were high for a short period. Wages to price ratio was low for far far longer.

You keep stating blatant falsehoods despite being pulled up on it. I’ve repeatedly said I didn’t like Blair’s privatisation agenda, you liked the fricken post so you clearly read it!
An article in the guardian shows statistics that say average income to mortgage rates have hardly altered for 25 years - keep digging