So now we know (2 Viewers)

[Nick]

And you’re doing what all conspiracy theorists do and weaving together snippets of unrelated info and leaving out othersolid facts to create an overarching narrative that doesn’t exist.

I’m going to leave this here TBH. Don’t want to derail a productive thread.

There is no conspiracy, I am pointing out things that have happened to you.

You seem far too keen to write everything off as a conspiracy or dreamland all the time. I have given you examples of how CCC were working against the club, there in Black and white.

You do this every time things with the Council are mentioned, same when I mention that failed takeover the Trust were involved in when your dad was running them too.

 

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[Liquid Gold]

Id agree. Where we differ I’d imagine is that I think Sisus personal politics and lack of understanding of the difference between dealing with private orgs and local authorities meant they picked a strategy doomed to fail.

No, I actually agree with that. I think that’s one of the reasons we had such a churn of directors early in their reign. I also don’t think that excuses CCC for turning their back on the football club.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

It's alright saying Tim Fisher said something nasty and hated the council, look at how actual Council Leaders have behaved. That goes for Mutton, Lucas and Duggins. Does Tim Fisher being a smarmy c**t give a council leader the excuse to be?

No.

I'm slightly worried about it being a yo-yo effect though, and SISU being given a free pass. We can see that with the ground at Warwick Uni tbh and, (although to a lesser extent), now.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. SISU didn't one day decide to up and leave to Northampton. Equally, now didn;t just happen because of one perspective.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Weren't SISU the council's preferred option and they basically nixed the 2 other potential buyers (the American one and another)?

SISU's offer was considered "derisory" by Conservative council leader Ken Taylor.

 

[Liquid Gold]

No.

I'm slightly worried about it being a yo-yo effect though, and SISU being given a free pass. We can see that with the ground at Warwick Uni tbh and, (although to a lesser extent), now.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. SISU didn't one day decide to up and leave to Northampton. Equally, now didn;t just happen because of one perspective.

I don’t think we are seeing that with the ground. I think the feelings of the vast majority are relied that there is at least an outline of a plan but acceptance that the Ricoh is gone now, the relationship broken and we as fans need to be on at the club and the owners to see concrete progress with the development.

 

[Nick]

No.

I'm slightly worried about it being a yo-yo effect though, and SISU being given a free pass. We can see that with the ground at Warwick Uni tbh and, (although to a lesser extent), now.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. SISU didn't one day decide to up and leave to Northampton. Equally, now didn;t just happen because of one perspective.

They won't be given a free pass though?

I am by no means saying you are a council lover, we know that but people aren't stupid. Much like when the go to answer has been "what about SISU" when it gets pointed out other parties are up to no good.

Of course it shouldn't mean SISU and Joy can sit there comfortable, people are discussing this now because it has come out. Of course a new stadium shouldn't be just ignored now.

It is what is meant when people have been saying "Pressure all parties". It's just now there are a lot less people saying "BUT WASPS DID NOTHING WRONG" or "BUT CCC DID NOTHING WRONG".

Still, call them ALL out constantly.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I don’t think we are seeing that with the ground. I think the feelings of the vast majority are relied that there is at least an outline of a plan but acceptance that the Ricoh is gone now, the relationship broken and we as fans need to be on at the club and the owners to see concrete progress with the development.

I'd be delighted if there was an outline of a plan. That'd be progress on our current position of a statement released (coincidentally?) just when news of negotiations for Ricoh return have broken down.

 

[Nick]

SISU's offer was considered "derisory" by Conservative council leader Ken Taylor.

Imagine this:

The other was from a firm called Shapiro, which offered #26million but wanted the club to pay off its debts and the city council to give it a longer lease on the Ricoh Arena and some spare land to the north of the site.

Mr McGuigan said that deal would have cost the council #4million of taxpayers' money and left the Alan Edward Higgs charity #2.5million out of pocket.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

They won't be given a free pass though?

I am by no means saying you are a council lover, we know that but people aren't stupid. Much like when the go to answer has been "what about SISU" when it gets pointed out other parties are up to no good.

Of course it shouldn't mean SISU and Joy can sit there comfortable, people are discussing this now because it has come out. Of course a new stadium shouldn't be just ignored now.

It is what is meant when people have been saying "Pressure all parties". It's just now there are a lot less people saying "BUT WASPS DID NOTHING WRONG" or "BUT CCC DID NOTHING WRONG".

Still, call them ALL out constantly.

But whenever I point out the flaws, I get a similar equal and opposite reaction to when I pointed out flaws in ACL / CCC's narrative around Northampton time.

There is progress I suppose, nobody has decided I'm Anne Lucas!

 

[Nick]

But whenever I point out the flaws, I get a similar equal and opposite reaction to when I pointed out flaws in ACL / CCC's narrative around Northampton time.

There is progress I suppose, nobody has decided I'm Anne Lucas!

The thing is, I can't see anybody who has said they 100% think it is going to happen. Hypothetical talk about it, yes. We are sad cunts.

People are more optimistic because Warwick Uni have put their name to it. It doesn't mean it is 100% going to happen at all. Of course they should still be questioned and quizzed on plans and progress.

Wasps and CCC being found out doesn't mean SISU and Joy should be comfortable. Just like SISU being abused left Wasps and CCC being comfortable.

 

[shmmeee]

This is one of the things that really bothers me and for which I’m struggling to see a rational explanation.

The one thing that unites all councillors Id guess is not spending money they don’t want to. Maybe a legal briefing outlining the cost of fighting Sisu on legal action for the foreseeable future?

It’s certainly interesting and you’d have thought someone would break cover. Can we get a list of attendees and start systematically taking them for a pint to see if they’ll talk?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Wasps and CCC being found out doesn't mean SISU and Joy should be comfortable. Just like SISU being abused left Wasps and CCC being comfortable.

So let's all be united that a statement that they'd quite like to use some land, but they won't tell us which bit yet, isn't good enough. Let's get them to prove it isn't yet another attempt to 'prove' progress to satisfy the EFL, and fans, to gloss over a move to another place.

 

[Nick]

The one thing that unites all councillors Id guess is not spending money they don’t want to. Maybe a legal briefing outlining the cost of fighting Sisu on legal action for the foreseeable future?

It’s certainly interesting and you’d have thought someone would break cover. Can we get a list of attendees and start systematically taking them for a pint to see if they’ll talk?

Again, there was all the stuff about what Wasps had promised. Local jobs, training ground, sell outs, bringing Rugby to Coventry. I don't doubt they would have all been told about how their areas would be benefitting from Wasps being here.

There was the condition about it not damaging the security of CCFC and CRFC too. They rolled out Coventry Lad Andy Goode to say how it won't impact his boyhood club he loves at all.

Now fast forward. Duggins has already done a U Turn on the condition of CCFC not being damaged saying "it was only meant for 4 years".

With hindsight of what we know now, would 100% of people voted for it?

 

[Nick]

So let's all be united that a statement that they'd quite like to use some land, but they won't tell us which bit yet, isn't good enough. Let's get them to prove it isn't yet another attempt to 'prove' progress to satisfy the EFL, and fans, to gloss over a move to another place.

So what we do there.

"CCFC and Warwick Uni : Where is this land, give us more information, how far into the process are things etc"
"CCC: Get to fuck if you think you are going to stick your noses in like Butts"

The EFL have been involved all the way through. I doubt the public statement would make much difference and I doubt many people are going to go to St Andrews on that statement alone.

 

[shmmeee]

No, I actually agree with that. I think that’s one of the reasons we had such a churn of directors early in their reign. I also don’t think that excuses CCC for turning their back on the football club.

I honestly don’t think they have. I think Sisu put them in a position where they were getting legal advice saying “this is going to cost you fuck loads, get shot of the Ricoh” and that’s what convinced both sides of the aisle to take it.

For someone who I’m sure has used the argument “the club aren’t Sisu” I’m sure you can grasp that Sisu aren’t the club?

As I say, most councillors either have no opinion on CCFC, or actively support them. So I find the idea they’d, to a man, turn their back on CCFC as opposed to Sisu, hard to swallow.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I honestly don’t think they have. I think Sisu put them in a position where they were getting legal advice saying “this is going to cost you fuck loads, get shot of the Ricoh” and that’s what convinced both sides of the aisle to take it.

For someone who I’m sure has used the argument “the club aren’t Sisu” I’m sure you can grasp that Sisu aren’t the club?

As I say, most councillors either have no opinion on CCFC, or actively support them. So I find the idea they’d, to a man, turn their back on CCFC as opposed to Sisu, hard to swallow.

If you think that still we’ll never agree and we should leave it there.

 

[shmmeee]

Again, there was all the stuff about what Wasps had promised. Local jobs, training ground, sell outs, bringing Rugby to Coventry. I don't doubt they would have all been told about how their areas would be benefitting from Wasps being here.

There was the condition about it not damaging the security of CCFC and CRFC too. They rolled out Coventry Lad Andy Goode to say how it won't impact his boyhood club he loves at all.

Now fast forward. Duggins has already done a U Turn on the condition of CCFC not being damaged saying "it was only meant for 4 years".

With hindsight of what we know now, would 100% of people voted for it?

Thats all standard though mate. Look at any project announcement. Still doesn’t explain why even that one mental Bablake anti gay councillor didn’t object. You’re letting your dislike of local councillors get in the way of critical thinking. I may not like them all, but I don’t think they’re all green enough to be taken in by a standard PR announcement.

It takes an awful lot to get unanimous council approval (and still getting it, if people would’ve changed their minds why aren’t they out complaining now?)

 

[NorthernWisdom]

So what we do there.

"CCFC and Warwick Uni : Where is this land, give us more information, how far into the process are things etc"
"CCC: Get to fuck if you think you are going to stick your noses in like Butts"

The EFL have been involved all the way through. I doubt the public statement would make much difference and I doubt many people are going to go to St Andrews on that statement alone.

I'd suggest the PR game by SISU has upped immensely, and actually they've done an excellent job in turning perception, coupled with winning games of course - that always helps! Criticism of owners always dies down when you're winning, surges when you're losing...

I suspect the public statement is to point to the EFL and say see? there is progress. We promised you some, here is some... in much the same way, drawings of previous stadiums, stadium advisory groups etc. served a similar purpose. The EFL are weak and won't enforce anything while there's *some* sign of progress, whatever it is and however real it is or isn't.

If we're on disclosure of confidential documents, perhaps they'd like to release the internal discussions about this from Warwick Uni, and the meetings between SISU / CCFC / Warwick Uni... We could at least start to see how far we are then, on actual movement beyond a statement...

 

[shmmeee]

If you think that still we’ll never agree and we should leave it there.

To be clear. You think every single councillor actively dislikes CCFC?

 

[Nick]

Thats all standard though mate. Look at any project announcement. Still doesn’t explain why even that one mental Bablake anti gay councillor didn’t object. You’re letting your dislike of local councillors get in the way of critical thinking. I may not like them all, but I don’t think they’re all green enough to be taken in by a standard PR announcement.

It takes an awful lot to get unanimous council approval (and still getting it, if people would’ve changed their minds why aren’t they out complaining now?)

Really? People are still taken in by the Wasps bullshit now even though none of their promises have happened.

 

[Nick]

To be clear. You think every single councillor actively dislikes CCFC?

Where is that being said?

You are fucking desperate to make out they are all innocent. That is genuinely what happens when you have an ingrained bias.

 

[shmmeee]

Where is that being said?

You are fucking desperate to make out they are all innocent. That is genuinely what happens when you have an ingrained bias.

Then what does “CCC have turned their back on CCFC” mean in reality?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Really? People are still taken in by the Wasps bullshit now even though none of their promises have happened.

Can equate that to all manner of things though. If I were being slightly cynical, I'd say new stadium announcements are in the same place, really...

 

[Nick]

I'd suggest the PR game by SISU has upped immensely, and actually they've done an excellent job in turning perception, coupled with winning games of course - that always helps! Criticism of owners always dies down when you're winning, surges when you're losing...

I suspect the public statement is to point to the EFL and say see? there is progress. We promised you some, here is some... in much the same way, drawings of previous stadiums, stadium advisory groups etc. served a similar purpose. The EFL are weak and won't enforce anything while there's *some* sign of progress, whatever it is and however real it is or isn't.

If we're on disclosure of confidential documents, perhaps they'd like to release the internal discussions about this from Warwick Uni, and the meetings between SISU / CCFC / Warwick Uni... We could at least start to see how far we are then, on actual movement beyond a statement...

I am pretty sure the EFL wouldn't need a public statement though would they? They could just be sent any communication between CCFC and Warwick Uni. They aren't sat checking Twitter.

The whole PR thing has improved, a couple of gamechangers have been the stuff about Wasps in 2012, the stuff about ACL planning to work direct with Yorkshire Bank (Which they previously denied in court).

Have no doubt the PR game has been upped and now they have a taste for blood / the fans being onside.

 

[shmmeee]

Really? People are still taken in by the Wasps bullshit now even though none of their promises have happened.

Again. “Everyone’s stupid but me” is not a productive thought.

 

[usskyblue]

The problem on here (and elsewhere) is the entrenched hatred of SISU...AND before people say it works the other way, it really doesn’t. Hatred for SISU came before the egg and chicken (and rightly so).

Whether you like it or not....it’s NOT this anymore;

SISU are c-units = SISU are c-units

CCC are c-units = Yeah but SISU

Wasps are c-units = Yeah but SISU

They are all c-units ... now go support the team

 

[Nick]

Then what does “CCC have turned their back on CCFC” mean in reality?

That CCC genuinely don't give a shit about CCFC now Wasps are here. Have a look at how much effort Duggins put into saving the Aldi in Bell Green and compare it to his efforts keeping CCFC in Coventry.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I am pretty sure the EFL wouldn't need a public statement though would they? They could just be sent any communication between CCFC and Warwick Uni. They aren't sat checking Twitter.

The whole PR thing has improved, a couple of gamechangers have been the stuff about Wasps in 2012, the stuff about ACL planning to work direct with Yorkshire Bank (Which they previously denied in court).

Have no doubt the PR game has been upped and now they have a taste for blood / the fans being onside.

What the statement signifies is public confidence and commitment to it happening.

Same as artists' renderings, or down to second round of bidding on a preferred site etc.

 

[Nick]

Again. “Everyone’s stupid but me” is not a productive thought.

I could start going through the posts I made saying that Hoffman will be involved with Wasps where you were posting tin foil GIFs if you want and saying I am making things up? Maybe the ones about when your old man was in charge of the Trust and working with Haskell and ACL to force that takeover too?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

The problem on here (and elsewhere) is the entrenched hatred of SISU...AND before people say it works the other way, it really doesn’t. Hatred for SISU came before the egg and chicken (and rightly so).

Whether you like it or not....it’s NOT this anymore;

SISU are c-units = SISU are c-units

CCC are c-units = Yeah but SISU

Wasps are c-units = Yeah but SISU

They are all c-units ... now go support the team

It really does. I spent all eternity through Northampton being told I was Tim Fisher, signing up to post here under a comedy pseudonym.

I mean, he's not even Northern ffs!

 

[Nick]

What the statement signifies is public confidence and commitment to it happening.

Same as artists' renderings, or down to second round of bidding on a preferred site etc.

Which paper work from the Uni could also have done.

 

[Nick]

The problem on here (and elsewhere) is the entrenched hatred of SISU...AND before people say it works the other way, it really doesn’t. Hatred for SISU came before the egg and chicken (and rightly so).

Whether you like it or not....it’s NOT this anymore;

SISU are c-units = SISU are c-units

CCC are c-units = Yeah but SISU

Wasps are c-units = Yeah but SISU

They are all c-units ... now go support the team

Exactly!

They are all massive cunts. Do you feel smug for saying it exactly like that for years and now people agree?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Which paper work from the Uni could also have done.

Let's see all that paperwork then, while we're in the mood for everything out in the open. All the meetings minutes, all the emails, all the conversations, both internal and among partners.

 

[Liquid Gold]

To be clear. You think every single councillor actively dislikes CCFC?

No, same as “The to rise have turned their backs on the Muslim community” doesn’t = every Tory is islamaphobic. Those in positions of power have lead the organisation to a point that they actively work against the interests of the football club. Look at the leaked emails of the time they were stringing us on about ownership of the arena while renegotiating the debt with Yorkshire bank.

 

[shmmeee]

That CCC genuinely don't give a shit about CCFC now Wasps are here. Have a look at how much effort Duggins put into saving the Aldi in Bell Green and compare it to his efforts keeping CCFC in Coventry.

So we’re just talking about the leader? Not CCC? So where are the people making political hay out of this heinous crime?

And seriously. I’m not going to explain the difference between talking to Aldi, who there is no bad blood with, and Sisu where this is a long history.

Also, I thought you were the king of “Sisu are not the club”?