So now we know

ccfcchris

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Sep 3, 2011
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It's about blaming all. My beef is you always lean towards SISU are cunts. Prove me wrong.
 

Moff

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Apr 2, 2011
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True, although tbf it was pretty positive to begin with, it's hindsight that says otherwise.
I never felt that positivity. We could have expanded Highfield Road.

Having met Richardson on a few occasions before this event, I could only worry it was the vanity scheme of a megalomaniac. I wasn't far wrong.
 

NorthernWisdom

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Apr 23, 2013
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I never felt that positivity. We could have expanded Highfield Road.

Having met Richardson on a few occasions before this event, I could only worry it was the vanity scheme of a megalomaniac. I wasn't far wrong.
Well I wasn't keen either, but you can't deny we were the vast minority. Most people saw the Ricoh deal as saving the club - they followed the club line as articulated by McGinnity
 
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Moff

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Well I wasn't keen either, but you can't deny we were the vast minority. Most people saw the Ricoh deal as saving the club - they followed the club line as articulated by McGinnity
Sad but true...

We must be battle hardened and strong willed fans, as despite all the past twenty odd years appalling ownership, and poor decision making by said owners, we keep coming back for more!
 

win9nut

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Feb 18, 2012
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Higgs was the 50% offer.

Council's a little murkier TBF, just rereading the council report. They definitely entered discussions, but just say ' It became clear very quickly that the only terms on which SISU would consider even making an offer for ACL were on the basis that the sale of the Arena was on an unencumbered freehold basis '.

However they also say: 'It has also been made clear that the City Council will listen to all sensible and sustainable offers to acquire an ownership stake in the Arena whether in full or in part and also in relation to the AEHC shares should they wish to sell.'

Fisher claimed we'd made 'a very serious offer' (for the Higgs share), and CCFC still had first option when the sale to Wasps went through.

So I guess as always it comes down to your interpretation of various statements.

But you can add (all before or around the Wasps sale):

“We realised that the business was nothing short of appalling. Half of something very small is nothing – two turkeys do not an eagle make. We were not going to strap ourselves to an ailing business.”

(Seppala) “We will not interfere with any deal between Wasps and Arena Coventry Limited regarding the Ricoh.”

(Seppala to the pro Sisu fans group at the time)

Stuart Cosgrove, of GCBTR, said: “We urged Joy to make clear at this late stage whether there was any hope that a Ricoh sale has privately remained at least one option for the club.

“Her answer is clear in saying that a new stadium makes more sense.”

So it's not unreasonable to say at least that Sisu didn't make an approach as clearly as Wasps and made some very confusing statements that on the face of it line up with what the council claims was said privately.
Was anyone aware of the 250 year extension at this point?
 

shmmeee

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Jul 11, 2011
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I went to the stadium meetings last time around and was frankly embarrassed as there was no way this was happening. This time I get the feelings it’s happening.

I also feel the 5 year window for the new stadium is time for the appeal to be completed. If it doesnt go in city’s favour then awaiting the eventual collapse of wasps in the next couple of years to pick up the Ricoh. If these don’t happen in the next 2 years then full steam ahead with the new stadium.

CCC’s problem with the Ricoh when wasps eventually go into liquidation and the ground hasn’t got a tenant.
Still not seen anyone give me an answer as to what happens if Wasps go pop. Wouldn’t someone (*cough* Sisu *cough*) be able to pick them up at admin and carry on? Surely like football teams they don’t just disappear? Contrary to popular belief I know duck all about rugby so don’t know if it’s happened to other clubs.
 

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

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Still not seen anyone give me an answer as to what happens if Wasps go pop. Wouldn’t someone (*cough* Sisu *cough*) be able to pick them up at admin and carry on? Surely like football teams they don’t just disappear? Contrary to popular belief I know duck all about rugby so don’t know if it’s happened to other clubs.
I assume someone will pick them up if they went bust. I’d imagine Derek Richardson would have moved the ACL lease or asset by that point....

Obviously the last time a hedge fund did that they were hammered for it. I’d expect Richardson to be hammered By the telegraph and locals again
 

luwalla

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Aug 4, 2010
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Leaked council cabinet report on the Observer site. Search CCFC “unencumbered freehold” and it’s about the third link.

And Wasps don’t own the freehold. ACL lease was extended not cancelled.
Leaked COUNCIL report said club weren’t willing to do a deal on stadium unless they owned freehold... shock horror, the council said deal could t be done & it was all the clubs fault... so they fucked off and sold it to a rugby club from London ?

what part of that is mean to exonerate the council ?

and the missus “don’t buy me anything is a great example“. You might might say that she can’t complain then if you don’t ... but all your mates would say your mad, and read between them lines... you always buy something!!! 😂
 

shmmeee

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I assume someone will pick them up if they went bust. I’d imagine Derek Richardson would have moved the ACL lease or asset by that point....

Obviously the last time a hedge fund did that they were hammered for it. I’d expect Richardson to be hammered By the telegraph and locals again
Doubt he can just move the lease. CCFCs ACL lease went when CCFC went into liquidation AFAIK, it was the golden share and player registrations playing hide the lady.

Total guess but I reckon either they’re bought out of admin whole with lease intact or they get liquidated and the lease is void 🤷‍♂️
 

win9nut

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Feb 18, 2012
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Still not seen anyone give me an answer as to what happens if Wasps go pop. Wouldn’t someone (*cough* Sisu *cough*) be able to pick them up at admin and carry on? Surely like football teams they don’t just disappear? Contrary to popular belief I know duck all about rugby so don’t know if it’s happened to other clubs.
If Wasps Holdings goes into Admin, ACL and Wasps Rugby will go up for sale (I don't know if that means point deductions or some other penalty for the Rugby team.)
As Wasps Rugby significantly increases the value of ACL by being locked into a lease, an investor would be foolish not to purchase both, keeping Wasps at the Ricoh under new ownership.
If that is SISU, then they can increase the value of the Ricoh further by doing a deal with themselves to keep CCFC at the Ricoh too.
Raising finance against the Ricoh then would be a cinch and it would make the whole "project" much much more saleable.
A little bit further down the line we'd then be rid of Richardson and SISU.
Just hope CCC don't throw up barriers if this happens.
Only issue would be if AEG or the like were to compete to buy the stadium.
If ACL goes into Admin, the stadium lease will revert to the council - any sane director will not let this happen as it will wipe out any funds to repay creditors and bond holders.
 
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luwalla

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Still not seen anyone give me an answer as to what happens if Wasps go pop. Wouldn’t someone (*cough* Sisu *cough*) be able to pick them up at admin and carry on? Surely like football teams they don’t just disappear? Contrary to popular belief I know duck all about rugby so don’t know if it’s happened to other clubs.
I know bugger all about rugby premiership ins and outs but those I know that do reckon the league won’t let it happen. Not sure how they could that Prevent it if they were/ are really Financially fucked... not like the league could pump money in & help them survive like a government take over of an ailing national business is it... or is it ?
 

SBAndy

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Mar 20, 2011
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If Wasps Holdings goes into Admin, ACL and Wasps Rugby will go up for sale (I don't know if that means point deductions or some other penalty for the Rugby team.)
As Wasps Rugby significantly increases the value of ACL by being locked into a lease, an investor would be foolish not to purchase both, keeping Wasps at the Ricoh under new ownership.
If that is SISU, then they can increase the value of the Ricoh further by doing a deal with themselves to keep CCFC at the Ricoh too.
Raising finance against the Ricoh then would be a cinch and it would make the whole "project" much much more saleable.
A little bit further down the line we'd then be rid of Richardson and SISU.
Just hope CCC don't throw up barriers if this happens.
Only issue would be if AEG or the like were to compete to buy the stadium.
If ACL goes into Admin, the stadium lease will revert to the council - any sane director will not let this happen as it will wipe out any funds to repay creditors and bond holders.
Still can’t get my head around how the lease reverts back to the council if it is used as security against the retail bonds. This would mean the bonds are effectively unsecured as there’s no ability to sell of the asset and realise the value.
 

shmmeee

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Would a club statement convince you?
Thabk you. I literally bored myself to sleep last night reading the JR Appeal verdict as it was the only non SBT link for ‘Seppala “unencumbered freehold”’ on Google.

I now understand the JR and the KPMG valuation a lot more though! Surprised KPMG basically value the freehold at £0.6-1m, something to do with ACL paying £21m up front (this is the point I fell asleep). They call the 250 lease a freehold in principle which is fair, but makes you wonder why a 125 year lease isn’t that also (which was offered to Sisu I believe).
 

shmmeee

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I know bugger all about rugby premiership ins and outs but those I know that do reckon the league won’t let it happen. Not sure how they could that Prevent it if they were/ are really Financially fucked... not like the league could pump money in & help them survive like a government take over of an ailing national business is it... or is it ?
I think like football, clubs are basically immortal until no one is willing to buy the rights to play in the league (and thank god that’s the case or we’d be out a club)
 

shmmeee

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If Wasps Holdings goes into Admin, ACL and Wasps Rugby will go up for sale (I don't know if that means point deductions or some other penalty for the Rugby team.)
As Wasps Rugby significantly increases the value of ACL by being locked into a lease, an investor would be foolish not to purchase both, keeping Wasps at the Ricoh under new ownership.
If that is SISU, then they can increase the value of the Ricoh further by doing a deal with themselves to keep CCFC at the Ricoh too.
Raising finance against the Ricoh then would be a cinch and it would make the whole "project" much much more saleable.
A little bit further down the line we'd then be rid of Richardson and SISU.
Just hope CCC don't throw up barriers if this happens.
Only issue would be if AEG or the like were to compete to buy the stadium.
If ACL goes into Admin, the stadium lease will revert to the council - any sane director will not let this happen as it will wipe out any funds to repay creditors and bond holders.
Why wouldn’t Richardson pull a Sisu and buy it out with another company and carry on like nothing happened?
 
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NorthernWisdom

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I think like football, clubs are basically immortal until no one is willing to buy the rights to play in the league (and thank god that’s the case or we’d be out a club)
It's harder in Rugby though, both Richmond and Bedford basically went pop, while Orrell vanished. Ironically, the ground may be what stops Wasps from vanishing... although there's certainly an argument to let the club go separately and either be taken back to London, or have the amateur club rebuild it.

The fact their top flight becomes more of a cartel doesn't help get rid of them, mind.
 
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NorthernWisdom

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Thabk you. I literally bored myself to sleep last night reading the JR Appeal verdict as it was the only non SBT link for ‘Seppala “unencumbered freehold”’ on Google.

I now understand the JR and the KPMG valuation a lot more though! Surprised KPMG basically value the freehold at £0.6-1m, something to do with ACL paying £21m up front (this is the point I fell asleep). They call the 250 lease a freehold in principle which is fair, but makes you wonder why a 125 year lease isn’t that also (which was offered to Sisu I believe).
There's plenty out there, it's all or nothing. It softened later on in the process to a hint that a long lease would do.

It's Seppala's USP, hardball and all or nothing on the big plays - always been the way.