Were are we now? (3 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Only if you’re being pedantic

No more than usual

Defence is about the same, one in one out and no upgrade? Extra cover at RB but I can’t see us needing it much.

In return we’ve lost all quality from our midfield backup, and any cover on the wings or up front.

All of this is by the by. Clearly Lampard wanted more players and we couldn’t get them.

 

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[Snaily]

At start of window, we probably needed the following to be a 3rd/4th place team:

Starting 11:
- GK
- CB x1
- ST
- No. 8

with the following for squad positions:
- RB
- No. 10
- LB
- CB
- RW

From a net position we therefore short of:

Starting 11:
- ST (If Wright stays in form and fit, we’re ok)
- No. 8 (If Torp stays in form and fit, we’re ok)

Squad :
- No. 8
- No. 10
- CB
- CM (Are either of Eccles/Allen good enough if Grimes gets injured?)
- RW
- ST

So, think we’re now reliant on:
- Rushworth being better than he’s shown so far
- Woolfenden bring a better defender than Beavis & Butthead
- Grimes staying fit
- Rudoni staying fit
- Torp staying in form & fit
- Wright staying in form & fit
- Saka staying fit
- EMC staying fit

Think we’re still battling for 6th place

 

[quinn1971]

this is our depth:

View attachment 45764

is it really play off quality

It’s the same as last season, possibly stronger ?

 

[bigfatronssba]

He played 30 games last season. A lot more than a lot of players still in the squad who weren't seen as surplus to requirements.

Yes we all know he has injury problems but this new narrative that he was only going to make about 5 sub appearances this season is bizarre.

It was 23 starts I think, which is half the season.
I like Sheaf. On his day a great player.

However last season I don’t remember him having a single stand out game. Yet we still got to the play offs.

My point is he isn’t the crucial part of the team that he was a few years ago. The Sheaf of last season isn’t a massive loss

 

[stupot07]

Which half ? Only Simms seems on the periphery

BTA aside, Lampards use of subs in the league suggests otherwise

Hull
Breu - 81 mins
Allen - 88 mins ( only came on due to sheafs injury)

Derby
KKH - 91 mins
Simms - 91 mins
Allen - 95 mins

QPR
KKH - 67 mins (we were already 7-0 up)
Breu - 68 mins
Simms - 78 mins
Allen - 78 mins

Oxford
None

* Only listed those that were on the list of back up / subs and who is still here. I.e. Sakamoto is a starter, Sheaf and Rapha gone)

 

[PVA]

It was 23 starts I think, which is half the season.
I like Sheaf. On his day a great player.

However last season I don’t remember him having a single stand out game. Yet we still got to the play offs.

My point is he isn’t the crucial part of the team that he was a few years ago. The Sheaf of last season isn’t a massive loss

23 starts is a pretty significant number still though isn't it? It's a long season, injuries and suspensions will take their toll. Would you be happy with Allen and Andrews making up those starts?

I agree that the Sheaf of last season isn't the same player of a few years ago, and I agree that his injury problems are an issue.

But we've been crying out for more squad depth for years and regardless of Sheaf's injury issues I don't see how anyone can say...

Grimes, Torp, Eccles, Allen, Andrews

is not weaker than

Grimes, Torp, Sheaf, Eccles, Allen

 

[Hutch11]

I think midfield is the biggest miss with Sheaf going.

Eccles is now probably 4th choice - he does the basics well, won't change a game though and doesn't have any of the individual quality/specificity that the starting 3 have.

1 injury hurts us, 2 injuries in there would be on the verge of catastrophic.

And yet his last game for us, he came on and he was excellent and when he was forced off through injury we really missed him

 

[Cally Fedora]

Eccles was far more impactful than Sheaf last season and is a very good player. Allen is proven championship quality. I don’t see a problem in midfield and we need to see a bit more of Andrews.

 

[Captain Dart]

this is our depth:

View attachment 45764

is it really play off quality

It is in reality much more flexible than that as most players can cover a few positions.

Obviously the goalies are the goalies but otherwise Woolfenden and Lati can cover right back and Lati has played some time in midfield. Bidwell has been filling in at left sided centre back.

Eccles has played all over the midfield left, right, central and forward, he has also played right wing back.

Haji has played many games on the left wing and BTA has played as a central striker either on his own or alongside Simms.

Brau can play full back or on the left wing as a more defensive minded option.

Torp can play further forward if Rudoni is not fit.

Rudoni could probably wide if necessary.

The formation could be as it is but now with the 4 centre backs we can comfortably play a back 3 with wing backs and 2 up front.

You see there are many options but I think we could do with a bit more bite on the right wing, that for me is the next place to really strengthen, BTA has worked there but we can do better in budget.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

It is in reality much more flexible than that as most players can cover a few positions.

Obviously the goalies are the goalies but otherwise Woolfenden and Lati can cover right back and Lati has played some time in midfield. Bidwell has been filling in at left sided centre back.

Eccles has played all over the midfield left, right, central and forward, he has also played right wing back.

Haji has played many games on the left wing and BTA has played as a central striker either on his own or alongside Simms.

Brau can play full back or on the left wing as a more defensive minded option.

Torp can play further forward if Rudoni is not fit.

Rudoni could probably wide if necessary.

The formation could be as it is but now with the 4 centre backs we can comfortably play a back 3 with wing backs and 2 up front.

You see there are many options but I think we could do with a bit more bite on the right wing, that for me is the next place to really strengthen, BTA has worked there but we can do better in budget.

has Brau ever played as a winger before we started shoving him there in pre season?

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

has Brau ever played as a winger before we started shoving him there in pre season?

According to transfermakt, he has played there once before us

 

[Mcbean]

Unpopular opinion I know but there is a player in Simms he scored 19 goals in a previous season - he needs unlocking by Frank or a different service - we have him he’s going nowhere - needs to be turned into an asset !

 

[Captain Dart]

The fact that they didn't replace Sheaf could suggest that Frank does have faith in Eccles, and he's about the best person to judge when it comes to those midfield roles. But I suspect the club was completely surprised by the late Sheaf interest and hadn't been looking at replacement in that position.

So we have Grimes, who historically stays fit, and Eccles as cover until January. I think that's ok. It's not like we are wanting an upgrade on Grimes. I think Eccles is decent cover.

The defence looks much better. Excellent options at right back and now good competition at CB. Ipswich fans seem gutted to lose Wolfy.

And, we kept our best players!!

Frank is on record as saying he has potential for uplift this season while expressing his disappointment about the injury he picked up while doing so well in the play offs.

 

[Captain Dart]

has Brau ever played as a winger before we started shoving him there in pre season?

It is not unherd of for a player to change position and be very successful in their new role. Austin and his team must have identified something they believed would work.

 

[StrettoBoy]

has Brau ever played as a winger before we started shoving him there in pre season?

FL obviously seems to think he can play there and from the little we have seen I think he is capable of doing a job. He is a good option to bring on (or push forward if he started) for EMC - or Haji if he's playing there - in games where we need to protect a lead.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

It is not unherd of for a player to change position and be very successful in their new role. Austin and his team must have identified something they believed would work.

I'd be amazed if Brau got more than 3 goals and 3 assists from LW this season.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

FL obviously seems to think he can play there and from the little we have seen I think he is capable of doing a job. He is a good option to bring on (or push forward if he started) for EMC - or Haji if he's playing there - in games where we need to protect a lead.

What have you seen from him in LW you like out of curiosity? I think his best games have been at LB, at LW he had no Idea how to position himself or what to do on the ball

 

[StrettoBoy]

It is not unherd of for a player to change position and be very successful in their new role. Austin and his team must have identified something they believed would work.

I totally agree. I think most footballers should be capable of playing in more than one position.

Dion Dublin was a great example of a player who made a big change and was very successful at CB.

 

[StrettoBoy]

What have you seen from him in LW you like out of curiosity? I think his best games have been at LB, at LW he had no Idea how to position himself or what to do on the ball

He has shown some ability to get past defenders and put in a decent cross.

It's not guaranteed that he will work there but FL - who has seen far more of him that you or me - obviously thinks he can. I doubt that he will be an out-and-out attacking left wing but remember what I said:

FL obviously seems to think he can play there and from the little we have seen I think he is capable of doing a job. He is a good option to bring on (or push forward if he started) for EMC - or Haji if he's playing there - in games where we need to protect a lead.

Seeing him as "capable of doing a job" wasn't meant to be a ringing endorsement and my final observation was to the effect that I see him as a more defensive-minded LW.

If you want a proper attacking LW then I would agree that he probably isn't the man. The truth is that I don't see what other options we have (unless you play BTA on the left) if EMC is injured and you don't want Haji there because you need him at CF.

 

[alexccfc99]

Unpopular opinion I know but there is a player in Simms he scored 19 goals in a previous season - he needs unlocking by Frank or a different service - we have him he’s going nowhere - needs to be turned into an asset !

At this point we should just try and do what Eddie Howe did with Joelinton and turn him from a misfiring number 9 to a marauding box to box central midfielder Can't be any worse

 

[Captain Dart]

I totally agree. I think most footballers should be capable of playing in more than one position.

Dion Dublin was a great example of a player who made a big change and was very successful at CB.

An even better example but from a long time ago is Ray Kennedy, who was a star striker for Arsenal then signed for Liverpool and Bob Paisley turned him into a goal scoring midfielder in a side that won the league.

I just read his wiki page and by heck his later life was tragic as he was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease at the age of 33 and he died aged 70, I seem to recollect he scored many of his goals with headers.

 

[stupot07]

I still remember the days when Chris Hussey should be converted to a LW because Tottenham converted Bale. I seen to remember people saying the same about Sam McCallum too.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

I still remember the days when Chris Hussey should be converted to a LW because Tottenham converted Bale. I seen to remember people saying the same about Sam McCallum too.

Same for Haynes

 

[SAJ]

So our best lineup with all the players that will be fit before January is

Rushworth
MVE Thomas Kitching JDS
Grimes
Torp
Rudoni
Sakamoto Wright EMC

The bench:

Wilson
Lati
Woolfenden
Brau
Bidwell
KKH
Allen
Eccles
Simms
BTA

Does that Bench scream promotion quality

Woolenden will play in either Thomas or Kitching place. I suspect Thomas will be on the bench.

 

[Captain Dart]

I've seen at least 3 different incorrect versions of Luke Woolfenden's surname.

I think that beats the Kitching and Haji misspellings.

 

[wingy]

How far into the season did MR finally get a win are a third of the way through it,or is it longer than that

 

[Skyblue Bangkok]

An even better example but from a long time ago is Ray Kennedy, who was a star striker for Arsenal then signed for Liverpool and Bob Paisley turned him into a goal scoring midfielder in a side that won the league.

I just read his wiki page and by heck his later life was tragic as he was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease at the age of 33 and he died aged 70, I seem to recollect he scored many of his goals with headers.

I remember him scoring the winning goal for Liverpool in a European Cup final had it tough later in life. I have a cousin who was diagnosed with Parkinson's in his early 60s. Didn't realise you could have it at such a young age as Kennedy

 

[skyblu3sk]

Bidwell, Allen, Lati were all second choice or worse last year though?

Bit of a rewrite of History on a few players I'd say, Bidwell and Lati started half our games as did eccles:
Bidwell:
Squad: 40, Starting eleven: 23, Substituted in: 6, On the bench: 11, Suspended: 0, Injured: 6, Absence: 0

Lati:
Squad: 46, Starting eleven: 29, Substituted in: 4, On the bench: 13, Suspended: 0, Injured: 0, Absence: 0

Eccles:
Squad: 40, Starting eleven: 25, Substituted in: 14, On the bench: 1, Suspended: 0, Injured: 0, Absence: 0

Allen:
Squad: 37, Starting eleven: 12, Substituted in: 9, On the bench: 16, Suspended: 0, Injured: 9, Absence: 0

I'd imagine Bidwell won't play anywhere near that number of games similarly now Wolf is in I doubt lati will similarly if Torp stays fit Eccles will come off the bench. So even with these players making a reasonable number of starts we still made the playoffs.

 

[ccfc1234]

this is our depth:

View attachment 45764

is it really play off quality

While it could definitely be better your graphic doesn't take account that BTA can play as a forward, Wright as a left winger etc.

 

[Legia Sky Blue]

Woolenden will play in either Thomas or Kitching place. I suspect Thomas will be on the bench.

In time maybe, but I will be surprised if he is put straight in ahead of them.

 

[blunted]

At start of window, we probably needed the following to be a 3rd/4th place team:

Starting 11:
- GK
- CB x1
- ST
- No. 8

with the following for squad positions:
- RB
- No. 10
- LB
- CB
- RW

From a net position we therefore short of:

Starting 11:
- ST (If Wright stays in form and fit, we’re ok)
- No. 8 (If Torp stays in form and fit, we’re ok)

Squad :
- No. 8
- No. 10
- CB
- CM (Are either of Eccles/Allen good enough if Grimes gets injured?)
- RW
- ST

So, think we’re now reliant on:
- Rushworth being better than he’s shown so far
- Woolfenden bring a better defender than Beavis & Butthead
- Grimes staying fit
- Rudoni staying fit
- Torp staying in form & fit
- Wright staying in form & fit
- Saka staying fit
- EMC staying fit

Think we’re still battling for 6th place

Yes, but a lot of teams are in the same boat. When we had that amazing run of wins lat season, a lot of those teams were struggling with injuries and suspensions, but so were we. Our system had to be changed to adapt to the players we had fit. Nearly the same squad with the loss of Sheaf who never seemed 100% fit.
A lot of our players appear to be in better form so far, but obviously that may not be sustained.

 

[wingy]

OP =Bowie's last song!

 

[blunted]

At this point we should just try and do what Eddie Howe did with Joelinton and turn him from a misfiring number 9 to a marauding box to box central midfielder Can't be any worse

We bought Rosario as a centre forward and he was really average. Bobby Gould converted him to a central midfielder and he was a revelation. So much so Brian Clough bought him to play midfield.
I struggle to think of many of our players who have switched roles successfully. Dublin was never a long term defensive option a he was way better up front.
Pickering was a full back who fitted so well with Downes. Pickering was good defensively and Downes good going forward. Perhaps Lampard sees JDS and Brau as that combination when EMC is unfit or is subbed.
Maatsen looked ok further forward but he was an exceptional talent.

 

[Cally Fedora]

Rosario was great in that midfield role which no one really expected. Another who switched well was Phil Babb who came as a full back but turned into a really good centre back.

 

[Lamps]

23 starts is a pretty significant number still though isn't it? It's a long season, injuries and suspensions will take their toll. Would you be happy with Allen and Andrews making up those starts?

I agree that the Sheaf of last season isn't the same player of a few years ago, and I agree that his injury problems are an issue.

But we've been crying out for more squad depth for years and regardless of Sheaf's injury issues I don't see how anyone can say...

Grimes, Torp, Eccles, Allen, Andrews

is not weaker than

Grimes, Torp, Sheaf, Eccles, Allen

Sheaf's place has been taken by Grimes. Grimes is easily the better player. Grimes us made of granite. Sheaf is the opposite. Sheaf and Grimes didn't play well together.

If fit Sheaf wouldn't have been one of the first names on the team sheet like before. He isn't the big loss some people think or are trying to make out.