Running (2 Viewers)

[Travs]

The elite may be at the same level.
But the average has gone backwards.
Sub 30 for 5mile & sub 60min for 10 is the standard.
Can't do it , you ain't a runner.

Thats bullshit.

I've never broke 60mins for 10 miles (although i'm racing a 10 miler in November and hope to be thereabouts).

I agree they are good club benchmarks (although 30 for 5 miles is certainly easier than 60 for 10), but they aren't the be all and end all.... i've known guys running 57mins for 10 miles when i was running 62:30, and i would hammer them over other distances and terrains.

 

---

[DawlishSkyBlue]

The elite may be at the same level.
But the average has gone backwards.
Sub 30 for 5mile & sub 60min for 10 is the standard.
Can't do it , you ain't a runner.

I aint a runner then

 

[Travs]

I aint a runner then

He makes a couple of valid points about depth/standard in club competition....

But he's all over the place with that comment.

30mins for 5 miles and 60mins for 10 miles aren't remotely comparable anyway. I suspect he well knows this.

He should take a trip over to Podium at Leicester.......

Something like 40 runners broke 14mins for 5km
Around 150 broke 15mins.
I ran low 17's and there were about 400 runners quicker than me across the quicker races.

That is a reasonable amount of depth for anyone at a single event.

Armagh 5km had 150 runners break 15mins in a single race.

The fact that a lot of them may prioritise other things over turning out for their club, yeah thats an issue.....

 

[Farmer Jim]

Isn't that just a case of it being more popular making the mean average slower? My club has a hell of a lot of middle aged slower runners who've joined over the last few years but the best are still as fast as anyone who came before them I wouldve thought

I`d say that the majority of trail races I do, are populated by the 40/50 age group, both men and women, for the simple reasons that trail running in particular has taken off amongst the white / middle aged / middle class, who have time on their hands due to their kids being grown up and the fact they can afford to have weekends away in the likes of Cumbria / North Wales / Yorkshire etc and compete in races, that previously were the preserve of serious competitors from running clubs.

These running clubs still have serious and elite runners, but they also have a lot of nuts and bolts runners, who just enjoy the day out and the social side of things.

I`ve got mates who cycle and cycling is the same apparently.

I don`t road run, but I should imagine that road races are the same too.

So I`d say your pretty much spot on about the mean average becoming slower, as more " older fun and social " runners are now bulking up races.

 

[CovValleyBoy]

Thats bullshit.

I've never broke 60mins for 10 miles (although i'm racing a 10 miler in November and hope to be thereabouts).

I agree they are good club benchmarks (although 30 for 5 miles is certainly easier than 60 for 10), but they aren't the be all and end all.... i've known guys running 57mins for 10 miles when i was running 62:30, and i would hammer them over other distances and terrains.

Agreed easier to break 30 than 60.
But a male runner does both. Jogging will do neither.

 

[Sky_Blue_Daz]

Nothing compared to some of you , but I did another 5k today

 

[Farmer Jim]

Agreed easier to break 30 than 60.
But a male runner does both. Jogging will do neither.

I did probably the toughest forest trail half marathon in the UK last year and you know who got all the plaudits ?

Not the lad who won and ran it in 1hr 40 mins, but the inspirational young girl with cerebral palsy, who somehow got around the whole course on two alpine sticks and the help of a support runner.

Runners come in all shapes, sizes, ages and abilities mate.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Thats bullshit.

I've never broke 60mins for 10 miles (although i'm racing a 10 miler in November and hope to be thereabouts).

I agree they are good club benchmarks (although 30 for 5 miles is certainly easier than 60 for 10), but they aren't the be all and end all.... i've known guys running 57mins for 10 miles when i was running 62:30, and i would hammer them over other distances and terrains.

27:10 my best for 5 miles
Can’t do that for 5k any more

 

[Ccfcisparks]

In for Manchester Marathon next year.

Never ran more that 15k but looking forward to it. Want a time to aim for though.

I can do 10k in about 52 mins atm. What’s a good time to aim for for next April?

 

[larry_david]

I'm finding it so tough to run in this heat at the moment. Did Draycote twice yesterday and just ran out of energy around the second lap

100% got Leeds marathon flashbacks as well which didn't help. London then Leeds two weeks later,both in mid 20s heat have broken me and I've completely lost my running mojo

 

[Sick Boy]

I'm finding it so tough to run in this heat at the moment. Did Draycote twice yesterday and just ran out of energy around the second lap

100% got Leeds marathon flashbacks as well which didn't help. London then Leeds two weeks later,both in mid 20s heat have broken me and I've completely lost my running mojo

You need to be out running before 7am to avoid it. I made the mistake of leaving it until 8am the other week and it was already 30c by 9am.

 

[Farmer Jim]

I'm finding it so tough to run in this heat at the moment. Did Draycote twice yesterday and just ran out of energy around the second lap

100% got Leeds marathon flashbacks as well which didn't help. London then Leeds two weeks later,both in mid 20s heat have broken me and I've completely lost my running mojo

Have you got a hydration vest ?

I`ve been taking out 500 ml of water on my shorter runs and a full litre on my longers runs, plus a couple of gels - makes a big difference.

Slow down to a comfortable pace and don`t be afraid to walk when you feel like walking too.

If you`re running on the road, try and choose a route that`s got tree cover if poss too ( makes a big difference being out of direct sunlight )

I`ve been pretty much running on the same tree covered trails all week, rather than the more open ones I usually run on.

 

[DawlishSkyBlue]

5th place at a very warm Teignmouth parkrun this morning, 18.50. Ran in last seasons home top. Having a break from parkrun to do a trail 10k race next Saturday

 

[Travs]

Did the Snowdon Uphill race on friday night.

All a bit of an anti-climax really.

Weather was so bad that the race finished halfway up, rather than going up to the summit. And rightly so.... the wind was atrocious, a crosswind that you had to fight against to stay in a straight line.

Finished 12th overall..... but unfortunately i was unable to retain my v40 title..... was overtaken in the last couple of hundred metres by another v40 so had to settle for 2nd, by a mere 6 seconds...... with the weather conditions and the fact that by that point we were basically running up a waterfall instead of the main Snowdon path, there was nothing i could do to instigate any kind of sprint finish.

 

[PVA]

In for Manchester Marathon next year.

Never ran more that 15k but looking forward to it. Want a time to aim for though.

I can do 10k in about 52 mins atm. What’s a good time to aim for for next April?

Nice, I'm doing Manchester too! And it will also be my first marathon.

This site gives you equivalents for what you could do at other distances, based on your time in a distance:

V.O2 Running Calculator

An easy-to-use training platform for athletes and coaches, including the science and formulas of legendary coach Dr. Jack Daniels.

vdoto2.com

52 min 10k says 3.58 for a marathon.


I'm currently 47min for 10k. That calculator says 3.36 for a marathon. I think 3.40 is a good target for me, but I plan on training seriously for it and really want to get to 3.30

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Nice, I'm doing Manchester too! And it will also be my first marathon.

This site gives you equivalents for what you could do at other distances, based on your time in a distance:

V.O2 Running Calculator

An easy-to-use training platform for athletes and coaches, including the science and formulas of legendary coach Dr. Jack Daniels.

vdoto2.com

52 min 10k says 3.58 for a marathon.


I'm currently 47min for 10k. That calculator says 3.36 for a marathon. I think 3.40 is a good target for me, but I plan on training seriously for it and really want to get to 3.30

Very helpful! All the best with your training.

I think I’m gonna aim for 4 hours to start. But I think when I’m consistently training I can aim for 3.30.

 

[Farmer Jim]

Did the Snowdon Uphill race on friday night.

All a bit of an anti-climax really.

Weather was so bad that the race finished halfway up, rather than going up to the summit. And rightly so.... the wind was atrocious, a crosswind that you had to fight against to stay in a straight line.

Finished 12th overall..... but unfortunately i was unable to retain my v40 title..... was overtaken in the last couple of hundred metres by another v40 soA

A mate who was doing the Three Peaks this weekend, had the Snowdon leg cancelled for the same reasons as you mention.

I did the Snowdon Trail half a few years back in early Sept. It was that warm at the bottom, that it was T shirt and shorts, but horizontal snow and sleet coming at you on the summit. It was quite hairy and made much worse by the amount of water turning the trails into streams.

That was the race really rammed it home to me, why there are mandatory kit requirements and never to skimp on your kit.

 

[Sick Boy]

The heat is a bastard at the moment. It was already around 26 °C at 06:00 this morning. Back running a few times a week now, doing between 10-12km...got the Palermo half marathon coming up in November. Ideally, would like to try and do a full one next year if I don't get injured again.

 

[Travs]

Very helpful! All the best with your training.

I think I’m gonna aim for 4 hours to start. But I think when I’m consistently training I can aim for 3.30.

Personally i think those kind of guides are ok for up to half marathon.

5km up to half marathon have similar training principles.

But there's such a difference to then go up to marathon, to almost make it a different sport.

If you're doing 10km in 52mins then it would be very impressive to go under 4 hours for a marathon.

Although if you train seriously for a marathon then your 10km time will no doubt come down a bundle as well.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Personally i think those kind of guides are ok for up to half marathon.

5km up to half marathon have similar training principles.

But there's such a difference to then go up to marathon, to almost make it a different sport.

If you're doing 10km in 52mins then it would be very impressive to go under 4 hours for a marathon.

Although if you train seriously for a marathon then your 10km time will no doubt come down a bundle as well.

Very interesting. I've just been and done a 5k tonight as I need to start a plan. Managed it in 24 mins just over.

I know you are big into your running trav's what would you suggest as a training plan?

I know some say the bare minimum you should be running a week for a marathon is 4 times a week.

 

[Farmer Jim]

Personally i think those kind of guides are ok for up to half marathon.

5km up to half marathon have similar training principles.

But there's such a difference to then go up to marathon, to almost make it a different sport.

If you're doing 10km in 52mins then it would be very impressive to go under 4 hours for a marathon.

Although if you train seriously for a marathon then your 10km time will no doubt come down a bundle as well.

You`re right about marathons being a different sport.

The biggest thing is the training for a marathon ( imo )

You have to be completely honest with yourself about whether you`ve got the time to train properly, as it`s such a massive commitment.

You end up putting social functions off, missing out on family stuff and all kinds of other things to fit the training in.

If you haven`t got the time to train properly, you`re going to have a pretty miserable time on the day or even DNF.

 

[Travs]

Very interesting. I've just been and done a 5k tonight as I need to start a plan. Managed it in 24 mins just over.

I know you are big into your running trav's what would you suggest as a training plan?

I know some say the bare minimum you should be running a week for a marathon is 4 times a week.

Is it Manchester you're dong? So thats April next year?

Start now. Not 14 weeks before.

Start getting out and running easy pace, regularly........ slowly building up the time you spend on your feet.

Once you can get out, as you say, 4 times a week for a reasonable amount of time, then can start to think about making one of your runs a "long run" each week.

Get as much foundation of mileage that you can in the time between now and the race.

(there's obviously the consideration that you can't just go from running say 15 miles a week to 50 miles a week in one jump, unless you fancy being injured for weeks on end! Which is why its best to start building as early as possible).

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Is it Manchester you're dong? So thats April next year?

Start now. Not 14 weeks before.

Start getting out and running easy pace, regularly........ slowly building up the time you spend on your feet.

Once you can get out, as you say, 4 times a week for a reasonable amount of time, then can start to think about making one of your runs a "long run" each week.

Get as much foundation of mileage that you can in the time between now and the race.

(there's obviously the consideration that you can't just go from running say 15 miles a week to 50 miles a week in one jump, unless you fancy being injured for weeks on end! Which is why its best to start building as early as possible).

Yep thats the plan.

Following a plan on the internet that says it can get you up to marathon distance in 18 weeks. Its essentially 3 shorter runs in the week of around 5k to start, and then a long run on a saturday which is double the length of the shorter run.

Will see how I go with it. After 12 weeks I should be running about 50km a week.

 

[Sick Boy]

Yep thats the plan.

Following a plan on the internet that says it can get you up to marathon distance in 18 weeks. Its essentially 3 shorter runs in the week of around 5k to start, and then a long run on a saturday which is double the length of the shorter run.

Will see how I go with it. After 12 weeks I should be running about 50km a week.

How much are you running now? I think you’re a bit younger than me but I managed to injure myself for around a year by increasing the distance too quickly.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

How much are you running now? I think you’re a bit younger than me but I managed to injured myself for around a year by increasing the distance too quickly.

Before I had this booked and was looking to do it I was running a 5k and a 10k a week, whilst also playing a fair bit of football.

I'm planning to just up it by 5-10k a week overall mileage to start with, whilst playing football 1 day so its gonna be about 5 days with 2 days rest.

I'm 27 though, I've very rarely pushed it past 15k though in my life, so will be interesting to see.

 

[Travs]

I personally wouldn't follow a 12/14/18 week training plan out of a magazine or internet article. Too much of a jump in mileage too soon.

To go from running the odd 5km and 10km each week, to regular 30 mile weeks within 3 months....... you might get away with it if you're particularly well conditioned...... but most people will suffer.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

I personally wouldn't follow a 12/14/18 week training plan out of a magazine or internet article. Too much of a jump in mileage too soon.

To go from running the odd 5km and 10km each week, to regular 30 mile weeks within 3 months....... you might get away with it if you're particularly well conditioned...... but most people will suffer.

What would you recommend Travs. Maybe up the mileage a few KM each week?

 

[SkyBlueSoul]

What would you recommend Travs. Maybe up the mileage a few KM each week?

Going to back up his point because I did essentially the same as you're planning to do for Manchester in April. I played footie once a week and did the odd 5-10k run, and my training started first week of January. I got ill just before Christmas so couldn't run for a month then went into a 16-week training plan and ended up with my hamstrings going 3 weeks before the marathon. Although I had some underlying problems, the massage therapist put it mostly down to overuse/over training.

I managed to get round on the day but slowly and it was just about pride in the end. Still doing rehab and not back running at all yet.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Going to back up his point because I did essentially the same as you're planning to do for Manchester in April. I played footie once a week and did the odd 5-10k run, and my training started first week of January. I got ill just before Christmas so couldn't run for a month then went into a 16-week training plan and ended up with my hamstrings going 3 weeks before the marathon. Although I had some underlying problems, the massage therapist put it mostly down to overuse/over training.

I managed to get round on the day but slowly and it was just about pride in the end. Still doing rehab and not back running at all yet.

Thats very useful info. I think given I have 10 months im gonna really go slow then. Maybe start at 20km a week, and then build it up 2km a week at a time.

Hope you heal up soon SkyBlueSoul!

 

[PVA]

Definitely build up slowly. Add me to the list of people getting injured from bumping up the mileage too quickly.

You may think you can do it, and you might feel fine for a few weeks or months but then out of nowhere you'll get injured.

Also you will need to do some strength and conditioning work if you're bumping up your mileage. Just bodyweight stuff is fine, doesn't have to be in the gym with weights.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Definitely build up slowly. Add me to the list of people getting injured from bumping up the mileage too quickly.

You may think you can do it, and you might feel fine for a few weeks or months but then out of nowhere you'll get injured.

Also you will need to do some strength and conditioning work if you're bumping up your mileage. Just bodyweight stuff is fine, doesn't have to be in the gym with weights.

To be fair I'm in the gym doing weights 4 times a week already which is good.

Be interesting to see how my body copes with it.

 

[Travs]

What would you recommend Travs. Maybe up the mileage a few KM each week?

Just as my first post this morning.

Build it up to running (minimum) 4x a week, just take as long as it takes...... then can start to put in longer runs. You've got plenty of time so no need to condense it into a 12/14 week plan....... but you do need to start as soon as possible.

When i go for the marathon (which will be in the next 2-3 years i expect), i'll be wanting at least 9 months to build into it, and i'm doing 70 miles a week now.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Just as my first post this morning.

Build it up to running (minimum) 4x a week, just take as long as it takes...... then can start to put in longer runs. You've got plenty of time so no need to condense it into a 12/14 week plan....... but you do need to start as soon as possible.

When i go for the marathon (which will be in the next 2-3 years i expect), i'll be wanting at least 9 months to build into it, and i'm doing 70 miles a week now.

Yep makes sense.

Consistency is the most important thing I guess.

 

[Travs]

Yep makes sense.

Consistency is the most important thing I guess.

I've effectively took 10 years to be consistently running 70 mile weeks.

A couple of years i ran 20-30 miles and loads of cross-training. Then dropped the cross-training and jumped to 40 miles per week over a year.

Next few years were between 50-60 miles, then last three have hovered around the 70 mile mark.

I've been lucky to not have any serious running injury..... although i go the physio every 2-3 weeks to keep the tendonitis in my achilles and ankle at bay, not to mention the various other wear and tear which occurs.

 

[Sick Boy]

To be fair I'm in the gym doing weights 4 times a week already which is good.

Be interesting to see how my body copes with it.

It will help somewhat, but running is something else entirely (to state the obvious!). I'd plan to increase your carb intake on running days. I eat around 225 grams of pasta/rice on running days and I find that really helps with recovery.