oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Agree with most of it ...... but they are paying for their period of usage - including use of offices, shop and bars etc........ not for exclusive use all year
Rent (11 Viewers)
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Agree with most of it ...... but they are paying for their period of usage - including use of offices, shop and bars etc........ not for exclusive use all year
usskyblue
Well-Known Member
Nailed it......
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Actually we did ..... but the figures were not so large ......... any club paying 110% of turnover out on wages is certainly living beyond its means ............ and we did
usskyblue
Well-Known Member
Calculate the percentage when Richardson was around
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Yes, Richardson certainly did. His stewardship ruined this club. If SISU have got one thing right it's to get the wage bill down.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
there has to be a deal on the rent .............. but any good deal is a win win for all parties concerned.......... have posted figures before on what i think are reasonable figures and how it could be done to suit both sides............ you have to ask why SISU & CCFC are not making any proposals (it is up to them not ACL etc)
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
We didn't get the council to do anything. We had a nice little ground, fit for purpose and one that suited our pockets and our attendances. Richardson thought otherwise.
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
why ? doesnt matter ...... no ccfc owner has actually tackled the problem and matched wages to income to get a viable business..... been a long line of crap owners
usskyblue
Well-Known Member
Thank fook he didn't get the sliding pitch and retractable roof he wanted
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Dont have 2011 accounts with me but
2009 Turnover 8.895m Wages 10.503m
2010 Turnover 9.291m Wages 10.314m
hardly what i call matching costs to income to get a viable business
2011 were not greatly better
2012 might match we dont know
2013 who knows
coundonskyblue
New Member
Of course we did. In 2003 CCFC was out of money, the ACL project was about to collapse, City sold their shares to higgs trust. The club had to ask the council to approve this (as the council's partner was changing from CCFC to the Higgs trust), of which there was a lengthly council meeting which decided to support this.
Had the council decided not to approve this proposal CCFC would have gone into admin the next day.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No the truth seems to be you want the rent paid and you have also said we "are no better than Portsmouth". So the solution is to live purely on a self funded basis including paying a huge percentage of turnover in rent. In order to do this and not be like Portsmouth wages will be slashed further and players sold. That is what you want isn't it?
coundonskyblue
New Member
Richardson drills us a 60 million hole so therefore all consecutive owners can screw the club up as much as they want according to some on here.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
How much do you think SISU have "trousered" out of the club then?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Yes, and why were we "out of money"? Surely, even you can't blame SISU for that.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Maybe so, but the sums certainly aren't as large as when the crook Richardson had his greedy little hands on our club.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Forget it. CoundonSkyBlue wants us to pay our way, not be like Portsmouth, live within our means and still spend millions on players.
coundonskyblue
New Member
Nothing. If they had run the club properly I would have been happy for them to take however much they wanted out.
Fact is debt has increased since they took over, revenue streams are lower, and we are playing our lowest level for nearly 50 years. Those 3 things are Sisu caused problems which cannot be blamed on previous boards.
coundonskyblue
New Member
We were out of money because Richardson mismanaged the club.
Why have Sisu done nothing to reverse his disasterous tenure?
In fact why have they made it worse?
coundonskyblue
New Member
Where have I said I want us to spend millions on players?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So Richardson, McGinnity, Robinson, Fletcher and Mr Coventry were better then? And why say they can screw the club as much as they want if they are actually getting nothing? What is your solution the hedge fund say enough is enough and close us down? Would you be happy then?
coundonskyblue
New Member
No as I have said about a million times in about 8 minutes the previous board were just as bad.
Perhaps if I said 'screw up' the club you can understand me? I.e. make a mess of it?
Of course I don't want club closed down, but does that mean I'm not allowed to question, or disagree with what the owners are doing?
Perhaps if I said 'screw up' the club you can understand me? I.e. make a mess of it?
Of course I don't want club closed down, but does that mean I'm not allowed to question, or disagree with what the owners are doing?
2009 and 2010 were under Ransons reign. He failed to bring down wages to match our income.
After sisu took over the board last year they hit the breaks. Was it two signings last summer?
AT clearly had to stick to a wage limit and accept it was being reduced further.
Wages were still much too high last season, but with only two transfer windows and players on long contracts it takes time to of bring the wage bill down to where it seems to be now.
Accounts for 2012/2013 will be interesting read when they are published ... in 2014.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
SISU's biggest mistake was to take on the club and walk into this fiasco blind. They took RR's word when he presented CCFC as something which could deliver a quick win-did they do their homework on him or the club? Obviously not, and a fatal oversight on their part. They have been very slow learners in this business, but now, finally, seem to be getting the house in more order-but it has taken 5 years of incompetence (or naïveté?) on their part to achieve this. The root cause here is SISU's failure to do their homework on a business that was riddled with problems.
The soothsayer
New Member
I have not metioned portsmouth at all. I don't know where the words you have put in quotes are from , but not from me. your logic means we will lurch from one crisis to another, if sisu are allowed to get away with this , it will be a green light for them to pull other financial strokes. If this lot cannot even secure a pitch to play on,all the other stuff including players wages and signings etc..are irrelevent.. I wouldn't let sisu run a tuck shop..
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So yo would rather they sell players have a weaker squad and pay the rent?
I think sisu would argue that they trusted Ranson ... a former pro footballer and successful businessman still related to the industri. And he put up his own money to show how much he believed in the idea.
Ranson failed to deliver and last year he was kicked out. It's what has happened since you can meassure sisu on.
Last season everybody complained that sisu were ruining the club while the paved the way to this seasons start ... and now most seem pretty contempt.
It takes time to turn around a failing business ... and it takes time for people to understand what steps are necessary ... and even more to appreciate the outcome.
grego_gee
New Member
CCFC/SISU have been attempting to get a share of "other income". its been declared as esential to the clubs viability. This is quite justifiable because the stadium would not be there if it were not for the football club who are the main tenant and support its existance. Despite this ACL are creaming off profits from full crowds for the Olyimpics and still expecting CCFC to pay rent over the same period.
Its seems to me the rent agreement is quite inappropriate and it certainly needs to be renegotiated.
It could be a whole lease where the tenant is able to sub-let or otherwise profit from other events eg Olympics. Or it could be on a per event basis for CCFC ie per game - the use of offices is trivial they could be relocated anywhere. The main use is football games and the only prospective tenant for these is CCFC it can't be offered to Leicester for example.
If it is the latter there is more argument for there to be a reduced rent for div 1 rather than Championship or Premier leage games
.If it is the former (which is very probrably what SISU want because their registered business is described as stadium operations) there is less argument to reduce the rent because the tenant is free to raise money by organising different events. But if SISU could not expect a lower rent in lower divisions - there would be pressure on them to maintain a successful team to generate maximum income.from the football side
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The soothsayer
New Member
you don't seem to get it? there are no players or signings or matches or hotdogs or anything without a stadium to play in, got it? you must get out of your mind that football is a special case where normal rules of business and finance do not apply. They do and will..wait and see. if sisu want to take it to the logical conclusion we will all pay the price.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
What I don't "get" is why this particular issue interests you that much. Just answer this - if they agreed to pay the rent in full and to do this - quite rightly under FPP and moral business practice they sold several members of the squad to pay for it - would that make you happier.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
According to Ranson he had wanted to resign a lot sooner than he eventually did. I'd still argue that SISU did not do enough due diligence or research on this venture or the industry in general when they took us on. I remain confused as to why our flurry of signings this summer has some heaping praise on Tim Fisher when he will happily breech rent agreements (due September) as a bargaining tactic. Short memories among some of us.
The soothsayer
New Member
You don't know why Im interested in us having a stadium to play in? there is no answer to that. I don't know what you want me to say? happy would be if sisu fooked off and stopped dragging the club down. there is no winning here, just degrees of losing.. WTF is happiness and the skyblues got to do with each other?
Did he really 'resign'? But Ranson would say that, wouldn't he?
Don't forget he lost his baby ... Prozone ... when he left, so that makes it quite unlikely he did so by his own choice.
He was most likely forced away by sisu who simply stopped the influx of money.
I would love to read their shareholder agreement!
Astute
Well-Known Member
We need SISU. SISU need us. We don't want SISU. SISU don't want us.
There is a lack of anyone wanting to take us over. We need to get promoted and improve our profile. SISU then might get the cash they want/need. Until then we are stuck with each other. I just want what is best for my club. If it means an agreement with the rent then so be it.
There is a lack of anyone wanting to take us over. We need to get promoted and improve our profile. SISU then might get the cash they want/need. Until then we are stuck with each other. I just want what is best for my club. If it means an agreement with the rent then so be it.